Teacher resigns after burning flag in classroom

[spidey07]

updated article with local reactions (most of them are along the WTF is wrong with that teacher! lines)

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbc...le?AID=/20060822/NEWS01/608220378/1008

I wonder if this has hit any national sites? I e-mailed it to my favorite radio show host thinking he'd get a kick out of it.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Oh really? Read it again. Suspended != Removed.

He would no longer be in the school for a length of time, that means removed.

Whatever.

 

[DealMonkey]

I bet this is the size flag he burned. I imagine some people are thinking it was a large 3' x 5' flag or something and I wonder how the polling and opinion might look if it was made clear that it was small and in no way a danger to anyone?

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: Tom
As a liberal Democratic supporter of the ACLU, I would fire this jerk on the spot. There's a big difference between explaining why there's a right to burn a flag, and burning a flag.

...and that is?

We burned stuff all the time in school, and I really fail to see how this a fire hazard. Especially when people are hiding nationalism while pretending to be concerned with safety.

Burning a flag is a political act. That is why it's protected by the 1st Amendment. Assuming the teacher worked at a public school, taxpayers don't have to employ teachers that want to express political views they find reprehensible.

What about the taxpayers who think it's no big deal?

then show your kid it's ok to burn a Flag by doing it in your living room.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
then show your kid it's ok to burn a Flag by doing it in your living room.

Why? It's not illegal, doesn't harm or threaten to harm anyone, and it's no big deal.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I'm simply saying that's one quote from one student. What about the rest of the class?

It doesn't matter. If it upset one student, then that is enough. I wouldn't want a teacher pushing their political views on my kids. That's just flat out wrong.

And accordig to a poll from the paper more than half of the voters wanted something done..

Fire hime = 35%
Suspended = 17
Rassigned = 3
promoted = 4
do nothing = 40

Oh noes.....think of the chitlins!!!

Let's look at it objectively....as I stated in my previous post, he didn't force his political opinion or belief on anyone. That is your first fallacy. Second, your poll, depending on the margin of error, it could be that over half want nothing done.

This guy's only problem is that he is trying to teach kids to think for themselves when their parents are afraid of what might happen if they begin to do so.

And again, if he was teaching civil rights then is it ok to burn a cross in the class? I mean the KKK's opposition to civil rights was and has been very vocal. Up to and include the burning of crosses.

That is also protected under the 1st amedment so therefore, if a teacher feels they need to make thier point by showing how powerful the impact of burning a cross is, then they should have the right to do so. According to the people here that feel he was justified using your logic, he would also be justified in burning a cross even if it offended some of the kids in the classroom that may be of African decent...who cares it's just a cross right?

what better way to show the hatred and ignorance thier relatives faced through the years by showing the power of a flaming cross?

What has not been addressed is, was an accerleant used? If there was then the argument of "we used burners in science class" is out the window. why?

Because you don't use burners in a history classroom, you use them in a room that is designed for it. Most science classrooms are layed out totaly different than say an english classroom and there is a reason for it. S-A-F-T-E-Y. These are rooms dedicated to science, and the use of chemicals, flame and other things not used in other classes.

Like shop classes they are made for it. How may attended english class had a table saw in your room? Not many. why? Because there is a specific location and reason to have a room set up for shop tools.

If they guy wanted to make a true statement, and he is so intelligent then he would have seeked out permission to do so. He did not.

So either:

A- he is stupid and didn't realize that burning ANYTHING in a class room not made for it would get him fired

B- He did it so he could get fired and sue the school for unjust termination and maybe collect some cash

The simple fact is the guy is a fvcking moron and burning items such as a flag or a cross or anything else in an uncontrolled environment putting not just the kids in his class but kids and staff of the entire school including those that may be special needs kids like in wheelchairs etc. he should be fired because if he truly cared about kids and simply being a "good" teacher then he would not have done what he did.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Todd33
Nothing to see here, get back to reading outdated biology text with "Just a theory" stickers in them. We would not want out children to think... bad teacher, you upset the flag waving sheeple.

i gag every time someone falls back on the word sheeple in this forum. it's like the sheeple callers are now the sheeple because they've all picked up on that word like a trail of reeces pieces attracting E.T.

face it, the teacher must be boring. he needs to shock his 6th graders into discussion.
there were other ways to spark their interest rather than lighting something on fire in a classroom.

face it? Hehe, that sort of reminds me of calling sheeple callers sheeple. Fact it is a Reeces piece, no? The only thing your post taught me was that you think you know a lot more about teaching the 6th grade or how 6th grade teachers should think than I think you do. Why on earth should I face your opinion rather than the one of a real teacher? The teacher must be boring because you say so. Why not, you must be boring because that's all you can come up with by way of explanation, seeing yourself in others, as it were.

how do you know i am not a teacher?

mull that one over.

Who cares if you are a teacher? It has nothing to do with being a boring teacher.. it was a completely valid way of discussion.. it OBVIOUSLY HAD an impact if some lame parents decided to complain.. that is discussion to me!

ummm. read his post again... slowly this time. he feels i can have no opinion of how boring this flag burning teacher must be if he can't spark his student's interest without doing something radical because i am not "a real teacher". so therefore i have set him straight.

got it?

No, I expressed my opinion that for somebody who objects to the term sheeple and then uses the one 'face it' as if that somehow induced gravitas into the discussion you also did nothing but emote on what you thought of a radical as if you have some special insight into that and how to teach 6th graders. In short, I thought you blew smoke about people blowing smoke and then blew some more smoke. I took a chance of the fact your not a teacher since you have so much to learn.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I bet this is the size flag he burned. I imagine some people are thinking it was a large 3' x 5' flag or something and I wonder how the polling and opinion might look if it was made clear that it was small and in no way a danger to anyone?

But it was a danger. It was a danger to every patriotic 'Merican who ever thought of fighting for what the flag stands for (never mind if they did or didn't...that's just details). It's a danger to everyone who would otherwise not have to think about what really is important issues facing the country today. It's a danger to those that want to make us forget that there is a thing called the constitution and that it affords us rights that the government cannot take away.

Basically, it's a danger to the current crop of politicians who have made this into something when it is nothing more than a colored piece of cloth being burned.

I hope that those that are supporters of a flag burning amendment aren't Christians. If they are, this could be construed as "Idol" worshiping. Here's a snippet of an article that I read before that makes the case more eloquently than I could at this point in time:

Devout Christians firmly believe that the Ten Commandments should be etched in stone in our courthouses and emblazoned on the walls of every classroom. The message of the Second Commandment is clear. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..."

Can anyone deny that the American flag has achieved the status of a graven image?

The contention that flag worship is blasphemy was a key element before the Supreme Court in 1940. In that case it upheld the right of a Pennsylvania school district to expel two students who refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. The two teenagers were members of the Jehovah's Witness denomination. Their church believed that pledging allegiance to the flag violated the Biblical admonition (Exodus 20) against worshipping or bowing down to any graven image of God. The court decided that the need for national security and national unity allowed Congress to force individuals to violate the Ten Commandments.

In 1943, the Supreme Court reversed its 1940 decision. That reversal probably had less to do with religion than with the Court's realization that, at the height of a war against totalitarian regimes, a central feature of which was a slavish devotion to national symbols, compelling us to worship the flag was inapt. (As a side note, that same year the Flag Code itself was changed. No longer were students required to salute the flag with one arm extended forward. The similarity to the Nazi salute was too embarrassing. From that time onwards, we were told to put our hands over our hearts.)

The evidence that we literally worship the flag is overwhelming. Unique among all nations, we have a Flag Day, a Flag code etiquette, a national anthem dedicated to the flag and a verbal salute to the flag. Twenty-seven states require school children to salute the flag daily.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: spidey07
updated article with local reactions (most of them are along the WTF is wrong with that teacher! lines)

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbc...le?AID=/20060822/NEWS01/608220378/1008

I wonder if this has hit any national sites? I e-mailed it to my favorite radio show host thinking he'd get a kick out of it.

Rush will be thrilled, another distraction for the idiots who listen to talking heads.

 

[Starbuck1975]

If he were teaching the kids 'white people are superior' or 'Jews start all the wars' or such, that would be a lot worse than just "disrespectful and inappropriate."

Of course, but what if he were to provide such analogies in a manner that illustrates their dynamics without leading the students to a conclusion...you can certainly cause students to experience segregation or racism without necessarily leading them to a conclusion.

As for burning the flag, I think the full context is important to understanding if it was disrespectful or inappropriate in any way.

Well as always, context is the most important element...if this teacher is one of these self hating Americans who had a political agenda in his demonstration, then shame on him for bringing his personal politics into the classroom...however, there are no limitations of intention on free speech, so personal discretion typically serves as the only constraint on free speech.

Just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you SHOULD say something...there is a distinction.

 

[Wheezer]

But it was a danger. It was a danger to every patriotic 'Merican who ever thought of fighting for what the flag stands for (never mind if they did or didn't...that's just details). It's a danger to everyone who would otherwise not have to think about what really is important issues facing the country today.

No see he's an a$$hole for burning a flag.

He's an a$$hole for doing it in a classroom setting.

The mere fact that he did it just goes to futher the idea that he's an a$$hole.

If you all think it do damned great to burn the flag and show your power of free speach, then I suggest you all go to work tomorrrow and show your solidarity by burning a flag.

I mean if it's so great and so patriotic then put your money where your mouths are and light one up on your lunch break so you can actually show everyone you work with how independent minded you are. Don't be mere "sheeple" ...show some balls to and stand up for what you believe instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.

 

[UptheMiddle]

It would only figure that our educators would consider this "lesson" to hold any real value. How about focusing on how feeble our educational system has become when compared to the other industrialized nations? NEWSFLASH: Our children will be expected to compete in a global marketplace - its already challenging and this is only the beginning.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

But it was a danger. It was a danger to every patriotic 'Merican who ever thought of fighting for what the flag stands for (never mind if they did or didn't...that's just details). It's a danger to everyone who would otherwise not have to think about what really is important issues facing the country today.

No see he's an a$$hole for burning a flag.

He's an a$$hole for doing it in a classroom setting.

The mere fact that he did it just goes to futher the idea that he's an a$$hole.

If you all think it do damned great to burn the flag and show your power of free speach, then I suggest you all go to work tomorrrow and show your solidarity by burning a flag.

I mean if it's so great and so patriotic then put your money where your mouths are and light one up on your lunch break so you can actually show everyone you work with how independent minded you are. Don't be mere "sheeple" ...show some balls to and stand up for what you believe instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.

Wow dude. He wasn't making a political statement. He was evoking a response and he seems to have gotten it too. It was a lesson in passion, it was a lesson in Self. Too bad Idolatry clouds the minds of so many that the lesson can not be learned.

Where are all the "PC" accusations when "PC" is actually in full swing?

 

[BoberFett]

So according to some of you crazy lefties, when the crazy righties want to talk about god and another non-factual information in school it's wrong. But when some teacher wants to shove his opinion (read: non-factual information) on his students it's OK? If we want schools to stick to fact, then teachers should do leave their opinions out of it, right or left wing. Too bad some of you left wing nazis are too crazed to understand how hypocritical you are.

Maybe more teachers should teach creationism in class. That would really get the discussion going, don't you think? Oh wait, you only want teachers to provoke strong opinions when they agree with you, how silly of me.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So according to some of you crazy lefties, when the crazy righties want to talk about god and another non-factual information in school it's wrong. But when some teacher wants to shove his opinion (read: non-factual information) on his students it's OK? If we want schools to stick to fact, then teachers should do leave their opinions out of it, right or left wing. Too bad some of you left wing nazis are too crazed to understand how hypocritical you are.

Maybe more teachers should teach creationism in class. That would really get the discussion going, don't you think? Oh wait, you only want teachers to provoke strong opinions when they agree with you, how silly of me.

That did not happen

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: sandorski
That did not happen

Yes. Yes it did. His agenda is very, very clear. Keep that crap out of our schools.

 

[EXman]

LoL typical Lib quick to tear down America while offering no ideas on how to fix it.


Sad to see so much apothy in the Pricks & Nerds forum.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So according to some of you crazy lefties, when the crazy righties want to talk about god and another non-factual information in school it's wrong. But when some teacher wants to shove his opinion (read: non-factual information) on his students it's OK? If we want schools to stick to fact, then teachers should do leave their opinions out of it, right or left wing. Too bad some of you left wing nazis are too crazed to understand how hypocritical you are.

Maybe more teachers should teach creationism in class. That would really get the discussion going, don't you think? Oh wait, you only want teachers to provoke strong opinions when they agree with you, how silly of me.

That did not happen

And If he brought a Bible in the class I suppose that too would be benign to you? I guess it would be OK to you if he burnt it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So according to some of you crazy lefties, when the crazy righties want to talk about god and another non-factual information in school it's wrong. But when some teacher wants to shove his opinion (read: non-factual information) on his students it's OK? If we want schools to stick to fact, then teachers should do leave their opinions out of it, right or left wing. Too bad some of you left wing nazis are too crazed to understand how hypocritical you are.

Maybe more teachers should teach creationism in class. That would really get the discussion going, don't you think? Oh wait, you only want teachers to provoke strong opinions when they agree with you, how silly of me.

That did not happen

And If he brought a Bible in the class I suppose that too would be benign to you? I guess it would be OK to you if he burnt it.

Burning a Bible wouldn't really pertain to Civics class. Bringing a Bible into the class might be legitimate for the lesson. Depending on the reason for the Bible in class, ya, it could very well be benign.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Wheezer

But it was a danger. It was a danger to every patriotic 'Merican who ever thought of fighting for what the flag stands for (never mind if they did or didn't...that's just details). It's a danger to everyone who would otherwise not have to think about what really is important issues facing the country today.

No see he's an a$$hole for burning a flag.

He's an a$$hole for doing it in a classroom setting.

The mere fact that he did it just goes to futher the idea that he's an a$$hole.

If you all think it do damned great to burn the flag and show your power of free speach, then I suggest you all go to work tomorrrow and show your solidarity by burning a flag.

I mean if it's so great and so patriotic then put your money where your mouths are and light one up on your lunch break so you can actually show everyone you work with how independent minded you are. Don't be mere "sheeple" ...show some balls to and stand up for what you believe instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.

Wow dude. He wasn't making a political statement. He was evoking a response and he seems to have gotten it too. It was a lesson in passion, it was a lesson in Self. Too bad Idolatry clouds the minds of so many that the lesson can not be learned.

Where are all the "PC" accusations when "PC" is actually in full swing?

LOL...hell yes he got a response...unfortunately for him it was not what he was hoping ofr. He pi$$ed off a lot of people. What he wanted was "wow...he's so cool, he burned 2
flags in class today"

Gee do you think that if he had to do it all over again he would? Probably not.

why? because the response was probably not worth it.

 

[piasabird]

It is not a freedom of speech issue when you burn a flag on school time. I think some kind of newsreel of people burning flags and some judicial decisions, and articles could be discussed. Igniting things in a classroom is kind of dangerous. Probably that alone would be against some kind of school rule. Imagine teaching some child it is ok to light a flag on fire inside a building, and they go home and burn their house down. It is not my fault, even the teacher light a flag on fire at school, so it must be all right.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Wheezer

But it was a danger. It was a danger to every patriotic 'Merican who ever thought of fighting for what the flag stands for (never mind if they did or didn't...that's just details). It's a danger to everyone who would otherwise not have to think about what really is important issues facing the country today.

No see he's an a$$hole for burning a flag.

He's an a$$hole for doing it in a classroom setting.

The mere fact that he did it just goes to futher the idea that he's an a$$hole.

If you all think it do damned great to burn the flag and show your power of free speach, then I suggest you all go to work tomorrrow and show your solidarity by burning a flag.

I mean if it's so great and so patriotic then put your money where your mouths are and light one up on your lunch break so you can actually show everyone you work with how independent minded you are. Don't be mere "sheeple" ...show some balls to and stand up for what you believe instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.

Wow dude. He wasn't making a political statement. He was evoking a response and he seems to have gotten it too. It was a lesson in passion, it was a lesson in Self. Too bad Idolatry clouds the minds of so many that the lesson can not be learned.

Where are all the "PC" accusations when "PC" is actually in full swing?

LOL...hell yes he got a response...unfortunately for him it was not what he was hoping ofr. He pi$$ed off a lot of people. What he wanted was "wow...he's so cool, he burned 2
flags in class today"

Gee do you think that if he had to do it all over again he would? Probably not.

why? because the response was probably not worth it.

That's not the reason at all. It's really quite simple: the response was to have the students write a paper on how it made them feel. Some students would/should have been pissed, others would/should have other opinions. The Students were to write their opinions on Flag Burning Pro or Con and give good reasons as to why.

Certainly he didn't foresee the full implications of the act and likely won't do it again, but it is the students who really lose out and once again shows the utter stupidity of the Anti-Flag burning crowd and their Idolatry concerning a peice of cloth.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So according to some of you crazy lefties, when the crazy righties want to talk about god and another non-factual information in school it's wrong. But when some teacher wants to shove his opinion (read: non-factual information) on his students it's OK? If we want schools to stick to fact, then teachers should do leave their opinions out of it, right or left wing. Too bad some of you left wing nazis are too crazed to understand how hypocritical you are.

Maybe more teachers should teach creationism in class. That would really get the discussion going, don't you think? Oh wait, you only want teachers to provoke strong opinions when they agree with you, how silly of me.

That did not happen

And If he brought a Bible in the class I suppose that too would be benign to you? I guess it would be OK to you if he burnt it.

Burning a Bible wouldn't really pertain to Civics class. Bringing a Bible into the class might be legitimate for the lesson. Depending on the reason for the Bible in class, ya, it could very well be benign.

I have a feeling you are in the minority with that opinion. I was speaking of the political overtones that each represent. Many a time do I see the Libs come out in favor of rights as long as it serves them. Sometimes neo-cons could be guilty of that as well to be fair.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So according to some of you crazy lefties, when the crazy righties want to talk about god and another non-factual information in school it's wrong. But when some teacher wants to shove his opinion (read: non-factual information) on his students it's OK? If we want schools to stick to fact, then teachers should do leave their opinions out of it, right or left wing. Too bad some of you left wing nazis are too crazed to understand how hypocritical you are.

Maybe more teachers should teach creationism in class. That would really get the discussion going, don't you think? Oh wait, you only want teachers to provoke strong opinions when they agree with you, how silly of me.

That did not happen

And If he brought a Bible in the class I suppose that too would be benign to you? I guess it would be OK to you if he burnt it.

Burning a Bible wouldn't really pertain to Civics class. Bringing a Bible into the class might be legitimate for the lesson. Depending on the reason for the Bible in class, ya, it could very well be benign.

I have a feeling you are in the minority with that opinion. I was speaking of the political overtones that each represent. Many a time do I see the Libs come out in favor of rights as long as it serves them. Sometimes neo-cons could be guilty of that as well to be fair.

Maybe, but most of the time a Bible ends up in class it is used inappropriately, so maybe not.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: EXman
LoL typical Lib quick to tear down America while offering no ideas on how to fix it.


Sad to see so much apothy in the Pricks & Nerds forum.

Hey F you too buddy! You can just march right back to OT and continue talking about the hair on your ass ... or whatever passes for meaningful conversation over there.