I don't care how big the flag would've been, if you are idiot enough to burn it in a classroom you deserve to be fired. I mean seriously, it doesn't seem like they lost a rocket scientist here... Especially considering the walk outside takes what a grand total of 5 minutes?
A good friend of mine in the education system pointed out this possible motive....
"he's been teaching for a long time, he probably wanted out and this was a good way to do it and be set for life. It's just about impossible to fire a teacher."
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
Science teachers burn stuff in class all the time. Fire is always engaging, grabs students' attention. If he was burning a small flag, and had a fire extinguisher nearby, and was burning it above a fire resistant counter, then this was truly a great idea to get students mentally involved with the lesson. Of course, as a follow up the science teacher should soak a flag in ethanol and burn the ethanol without the flag itself combusting. School classrooms are designed with the possiblity in mind that they might someday be used for science classrooms, with lots of fire. This teacher did nothing dangerous, nothing illegal, and nothing that showed anything but good judgement and creativity.
Fire hazard? When I was in grade school, we built vulcanos that spewed fire and smoke. I did Halloween safety speeches for younger kids when I was in HS, and used some pretty spectacular pryrotecnics during them. In chemistry class we burned and blew up all kinds of stuff.
Sorry, but I was responding to his post, which includes the location. I did include his quote so people could understand the relevance to the thread.. sorry if that wasn't enough for you to put 2 and 2 together : (.
Geez, did you people never use a Bunsen burner in your science classrooms in middle school? We were burning food to determine its caloric content in like seventh or eighth grade. Open flame in a middle school classroom is nothing out of the ordinary.
I mean, if we're that concerned with the kids safety never give them a cutting instrument. But then they'd miss out on the fun I had in eighth grade dissecting a worm, a frog, and a squid.
It's purely political motivations driving this.
I mean, if we're that concerned with the kids safety never give them a cutting instrument. But then they'd miss out on the fun I had in eighth grade dissecting a worm, a frog, and a squid.
It's purely political motivations driving this.
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
sure it's political, but then again burning a couple of 8 X 10 glossys of the Principal is good idea in a classroom of students too.
As a liberal Democratic supporter of the ACLU, I would fire this jerk on the spot. There's a big difference between explaining why there's a right to burn a flag, and burning a flag.
...and that is?
We burned stuff all the time in school, and I really fail to see how this a fire hazard. Especially when people are hiding nationalism while pretending to be concerned with safety.
AnitaPeterson
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2001
- 5,962
- 455
- 126
Burning a flag is a political act. That is why it's protected by the 1st Amendment. Assuming the teacher worked at a public school, taxpayers don't have to employ teachers that want to express political views they find reprehensible.
The American Flag is a symbol of American freedom to do such things as burn that flag if they want to. The burning of the American flag, therefore, is done by those who hate freedom, or hate it when America fails to live up to its standards of freedom, and occasionally by those who want people to think about the difficulties raised by freedom and popularity and its pressure not to be free but to conform. Flag burning, therefore, is a mirror in which you can see the state of evolution of your intelligence and thinking.
The ignorant putz worships the flag because it is a symbol of freedom and imputes to the flag all that is good, thereby making the flag an idol as prohibited by the Ten Commandments. A fool worships the thing and not the spirit of the thing. This kind of fool can take consolation in the fact he is not as big a fool as the fool who hates freedom generally, but he does hate the freedom of some to burn the symbol of freedom, taking that to always represent an attack on freedom.
Those more evolved see that the Flag as a symbol of freedom is still just a piece of cloth and it is the freedom itself that matters and not the cloth. At this level folks will ask why somebody burns the flag. Has America gone wrong or is the flag burner just nuts. Such folk will look at the issues.
At a higher level of consciousness some people ARE free. They have no need of symbols or reminders or flames of protest. They act according to the Will of God or are Its manifestation and every action they take demonstrates and teaches the meaning of freedom. These are they whose only flag is love.
The ignorant putz worships the flag because it is a symbol of freedom and imputes to the flag all that is good, thereby making the flag an idol as prohibited by the Ten Commandments. A fool worships the thing and not the spirit of the thing. This kind of fool can take consolation in the fact he is not as big a fool as the fool who hates freedom generally, but he does hate the freedom of some to burn the symbol of freedom, taking that to always represent an attack on freedom.
Those more evolved see that the Flag as a symbol of freedom is still just a piece of cloth and it is the freedom itself that matters and not the cloth. At this level folks will ask why somebody burns the flag. Has America gone wrong or is the flag burner just nuts. Such folk will look at the issues.
At a higher level of consciousness some people ARE free. They have no need of symbols or reminders or flames of protest. They act according to the Will of God or are Its manifestation and every action they take demonstrates and teaches the meaning of freedom. These are they whose only flag is love.
I took a Vietnam class many many years ago. As part of a series of exercises the prof came in late one day, walked up to the flag, and lit a lighter under it. Now, he didn't actually catch it on fire because of the problems with having a fire in the building. In the discussion afterwards one of the first people to speak was a Vietnam vet who told the teacher that if he'd actually lit the flag on fire he would have ran up on stage and beat him to death. I responded by letting the vet know that if he'd threatened the teacher over this that I would have ran up and beat HIM to death (yeah, he very likely would have ended me in a fight, but it was the idea that mattered to the debate). That was pretty much the end of that discussion.
What really sticks with me about that encounter is how different people are in their values, and how impossible it is to ever achieve harmony. There are people who ignore it, people who'll kill or die to oppose it, and people who'll kill or die to support it - same as every other idea in world. While you may get some to agree to a compromise on occassion, the bottom line is that those opposing factions will ALWAYS remain willing to kill for their side.
This guy was willing to kill a professor for provoking discussion because of what he'd been raised to see the flag as, and what he'd joined the military for. I was willing to kill the vet because of what I'd been raised to see the flag as, and what I'd joined the military for. Neither one right or wrong in his interpretation of the flag (though both with a heavy disregard for life and law), both with the same basis for their beliefs, but existing in total opposition. This was the best learning example of subjectivity that I had up to that point.
What really sticks with me about that encounter is how different people are in their values, and how impossible it is to ever achieve harmony. There are people who ignore it, people who'll kill or die to oppose it, and people who'll kill or die to support it - same as every other idea in world. While you may get some to agree to a compromise on occassion, the bottom line is that those opposing factions will ALWAYS remain willing to kill for their side.
This guy was willing to kill a professor for provoking discussion because of what he'd been raised to see the flag as, and what he'd joined the military for. I was willing to kill the vet because of what I'd been raised to see the flag as, and what I'd joined the military for. Neither one right or wrong in his interpretation of the flag (though both with a heavy disregard for life and law), both with the same basis for their beliefs, but existing in total opposition. This was the best learning example of subjectivity that I had up to that point.
I don't know what you mean by "it", but within the constraints of the law, citizens have the right to determine what the terms of employment for government employees are, usually indirectly by election of school boards, for example, but also by direct ballot initiative.
So taxpayers who don't think "it" is a big deal, could have it their way, if they have the political power.
I just hope that the school doesn't have gas stoves or ovens in the kitchen.....
We gotta think of the safety of the kids and not have any firehazards anywhere in the building.
We gotta think of the safety of the kids and not have any firehazards anywhere in the building.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
Is this truly the metric we should use to determine what is appropriate for public schools.
My understanding is that this teacher was attempting to promote discussion for a civics class.
As I stated earlier, would he come into class wearing a KKK outfit and start burning crosses to illustrate racism?
After the Mel Gibson fiasco, would he come into class and have any Jewish students wear "Stars of David" and then have other students persecute them to illustrate the insanity of the Holocaust?
Would he seperate the class by racial or cultural lines, and then treat each group differently to illustrate what segregation was like?
There are many ways to foster debate in a civics class...and healthy discussion does not require engaging in an act which many deem is disrespectful and inappropriate, particularly for a classroom.
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