Surprise surprise: Israel blocks UN Jenin inquiry.

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Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
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Israel Delays U.N. Probe of Jenin - April 29, 2002
  1. The UN has an anti-Israel bias
  2. The team should include more military and counterterrorism experts
  3. Israel would not allow its sovereignty to be compromised
  4. United Nations committee is likely to smear Israel
  5. Civilians were not targeted, but how do you prove it?
  6. The UN ignored Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians
  7. Where are the terror experts on the mission?
  8. Where are the military experts?
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81


<< One of the members making statement that it was a massacre and then the same member heading up the International Red Cross denying Israel entry. The ONLY nation in the WORLD that hasn't been allowed in.

I'd say the bias is pretty thick.
>>




So what would you suggest? That we simply ignore everything and take Israel's word for it?
 

duke

Golden Member
Nov 22, 1999
1,240
0
0


<< The ONLY nation in the WORLD that hasn't been allowed in. >>




Wrong. Taiwan is also not a member of the UN.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0


<< The ONLY nation in the WORLD that hasn't been allowed in. >>


Now that's something that, if true, is bullshiit. :( And the reasons given?
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81


<<

<< The ONLY nation in the WORLD that hasn't been allowed in. >>




Wrong. Taiwan is also not a member of the UN.
>>



I think they were discussing membership in the International Red Cross.
 

duke

Golden Member
Nov 22, 1999
1,240
0
0


<<

<<

<< The ONLY nation in the WORLD that hasn't been allowed in. >>




Wrong. Taiwan is also not a member of the UN.
>>



I think they were discussing membership in the International Red Cross.
>>



If that is so, my bad.
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
7,329
0
0


<< Israel Delays U.N. Probe of Jenin - April 29, 2002 The UN has an anti-Israel bias >>



Just because they don't blindy accept the actions of Israel, they have a bias?



<< The team should include more military and counterterrorism experts >>



There are several military and counterterrorism-experts advising the team. They increased the officers on the team at the request of Israel, and the number of counterterrorists was also increased.



<< United Nations committee is likely to smear Israel >>



They would do that if Israel did something wrong. If Israel didn't do anything wrong, they wont get smeared.



<< The UN ignored Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians >>



First Israel demanded that the team studies the Jenin-incident only, nothing more. then they tried to tie the palestinian suicide-bombings to the case as well (even though just before they demanded that the team limits itself to Jenin)



<< Where are the terror experts on the mission? >>



There are several. The leader of the CT-experts is a CT-expert from Ireland



<< Where are the military experts? >>



There are several. The leader of the military-experts is an american colonel.
 

WarCon

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2001
3,920
0
0
This is in answer to:

<< I can only see harm in the U.N. investigation. What true purpose does it serve, but to show the rest of the world that the U.N. supports terror. >>

Man it sounds as if you are afraid they might find something bad.

What my worry is with the wonderful record of the U.N. in regards to Isreal is that even if nothing out of the ordinary is found the U.N. advisors that were being sent will "find" something to add another "resolution" further deepening the grave they have been trying to dig for Isreal. Name another country put though this by the U.N. The answer is there are none.

>"U.N. lynching prelude"
>http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20020502-26050015.htm
>
>Arnold Beichman, a research fellow at the Hoover Institution, is a
>Washington Times columnist.
>
> Of the 190 countries in the United Nations only one, Israel, has
>been singled out by a majority of the U.N. membership for extinction.
> I will document this statement with a catalogue of actions taken by
>the U.N. in the half-century of the its existence that will demonstrate:
> . First, that no other U.N. member state has ever been so targeted;
>yes, not even apartheid South Africa.
> . Second, no other U.N. member state has had its legitimacy so
>consistently questioned.
> . Third, no other U.N. member state has been denied its right to
>self-defense against deadly attacks against its citizens.
> Israel is not shown on the maps of Arab cartographers, especially
>those used in school textbooks. The U.N. majority, acting as prosecutor,
>judge, jury and executioner like a lynch mob of yore, now intends to
>turn that myth into reality. The latest U.N. action by unanimous vote of
>the Security Council to set up a committee to investigate the Jenin
>"massacre" is an example of typical U.N. double-dealing where Israel is
>concerned.
> It never occurred to the U.N. Security Council to set up a special
>committee to investigate Mr. Arafat's 18-month suicide bombing intifada.
>But when Israel counterattacks, it's a massacre and Mary Robinson, the
>U.N. high commissioner for human rights, says the Israeli defense move
>was "in total violation of human rights." (As Ambassador Jeane
>Kirkpatrick has written: "Suicide bombing intends genocide.") In other
>words, suicide bombing terrorism against civilians is legitimate,
>resistance to such terrorism is illegitimate.
> Here is the documentation (assembled with the aid of U.N. Watch) of
>how the U.N., driven by the powerful Arab-Muslim bloc, has successfully
>ghettoized Israel:
> (1) Israel is the only country excluded from the U.N.'s regional
>group system. Israel is located in Asia, yet it is barred from Asian
>group membership at the U.N., due to an Arab boycott. As a result, it is
>the only country without regional group affiliation, the other four
>being the Western European and Others Group, the Eastern European Group,
>the African Group, and the Latin American Group.
> These groups are important, because they act as diplomatic working
>groups on almost every issue to be discussed. These groups also propose
>candidates to be elected to the various U.N. bodies, like the Security
>Council and the Commission on Human Rights. Since Israel does not belong
>to any group, it is the only country of 190 member states that is not
>eligible to serve on the numerous U.N. commissions. Recently the Western
>European and Others Group, which includes the U.S., Canada, Australia
>and New Zealand as "others" now invites Israel to take part in
>discussions in New York, but Israel will not be allowed to stand for
>election.
> (2) In recent years, the U.N. Commission on Human Rights has
>annually passed five resolutions condemning Israel. This year, they
>passed seven. By contrast, each of the following countries/regions has
>been the subject of only one resolution: Afghanistan, Burundi, Congo,
>Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Myanmar, Russia/Chechnya, Sierra Leone, Southeast
>Europe and Sudan. The disproportionate focus is aggravated by allocating
>a separate agenda item to criticism of Israel, while all other countries
>are discussed collectively under a different item.
> One resolution this year even contained a camouflaged endorsement
>of Palestinian terrorism. It "reaffirmed" a General Assembly resolution
>from 1982 (No. 37/43), which approves of resistance to occupation "by
>all available means." There is a special rapporteur who is assigned by
>the commission to examine Israel's actions. Rapporteurs for other
>countries investigate "situations." The rapporteur for Israel is
>mandated to investigate "violations," thus prejudging the outcome of his
>report. His mandate is the only one that is not periodically reviewed by
>the members of the commission. These reports are always one-sided,
>because the mandate requires that Israeli practices be investigated and
>not Palestinian practices, even in the same geographical area.
> (3) Nov. 29 is the United Nations Day of International Solidarity
>with the Palestinian People. No other people has a U.N. Day of
>Solidarity. This date marks the anniversary of the General Assembly's
>1947 Partition Plan, known as Resolution 181. In 1977 the Arab states
>pushed through a General Assembly resolution to place the U.N. offices
>in New York and Geneva at the disposal of speakers from the League of
>Arab States, the Organization of the Islamic Conference and the two
>unique U.N. committees mentioned above - the Committee on the Exercise
>of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People and the Special
>Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices in the Occupied Territories.
> In these speeches, Israel is accused of the most heinous of crimes:
>genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, war crimes, and last year
>terrorism was added to the list. This Day of Solidarity with the
>Palestinians all happens under U.N. auspices and is paid for by the U.N.
> (4) Israel is the only state to which a special investigator with
>"an open-ended mandate to inspect its human rights record" is assigned
>by the U.N.
> (5) It is the only state targeted by two special committees and
>special units of the U.N. Secretariat ostensibly devoted to the
>Palestinians but in reality dedicated to Israel-bashing worldwide,
>costing millions of dollars a year.
> (6) Israel is the only state that has been the subject of two blood
>libels at the U.N. - the murder of Christian children to make matzo
>(1991) and infecting Christian children with the HIV virus (1997). Both
>instances happened at the U.N. Commission on Human Rights. In 1991, the
>Syrian delegate accused Israel of murdering children to use their blood
>for matzo. In 1997, the Palestinian delegate accused Israel of injecting
>300 Palestinian children with HIV-infected blood.
> (7) It is the only state that since 1982 has been the subject of
>two emergency special sessions of the General Assembly.
> (8) It is the only state whose aggressors in three wars have gone
>unchallenged in the Security Council.
> (9) The 1975 "Zionism is racism" resolution (General Assembly
>Resolution 3379) was called by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan "a low
>point" of the U.N.'s history. While it was repealed in 1991, there were
>efforts to revive this language during the U.N.'s World Conference
>Against Racism last year in Durban. Though most of the anti-Israel
>proposals were defeated in the end, the Durban Conference process
>crossed the line into anti-Semitism with the denial that Jews have a
>right to self-determination, denigration of the Holocaust and twisting
>the use of "anti-Semitism" to mean anti-Arabism.
> (10) UNIFIL, the U.N. force stationed on the Israel-Lebanon border,
>hid a videotape of Israeli soldiers being abducted by Hezbollah in
>October 2000. After finally admitting to having the tape, the U.N. would
>only show an edited version (in which Hezbollah faces were hidden) to
>the Israeli government. They claimed they needed to maintain neutrality
>between a member state and a terrorist group.
> (11) The U.N. Environmental Program held a Special Session on the
>"Environment in the Occupied Palestinian Territories," as if there were
>no greater environmental concerns in the world that might merit a
>special session.
> (12) UNESCO, in Paris, began passing resolutions about protection
>of Jerusalem holy sites and access for Muslims in 1968. No resolutions
>about protection or Jewish access were passed from 1946 to 1967 when
>Jordan controlled Jerusalem and barred Jews from entering.
> U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan on March 25, 1999, described the
>infamous "Zionism-is-racism" resolution as "perhaps our low-point in our
>relations; its negative resonance even today is difficult to
>overestimate." Calling for a "broader fight" against anti-Semitism, Mr.
>Annan said:
> "I know that the United Nations is regarded by many as biased
>against the State of Israel. I know that Israelis see hypocrisy and
>double standards in the intense scrutiny given to some of its actions,
>while other situations fail to elicit the world's outrage and
>condemnation. Still the broader fight against anti-Semitism must be
>addressed. We must denounce anti-Semitism in all its manifestations."
> Let the denouncing begin.



 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
0
0
For those minimalist government types who dispise any attempts at a single centralized authority, and for those who love kissing Isreal's arse on this one, how do you explain the independent findings of the Human Rights Watch which suggest Isreal has committed war crimes in Jenin?

Look. I' support Isreal's right to defend itself. But unlike half of you guys here I don't kiss their collective behinds, which I'm sure to some of you that automatically means I'm pro-terrorism. Whatever you want to believe is fine with me...

And if you're wondering, we do hold ISreal to a highr standard. They're suppposed to be a western demcratic country, one with laws and traditions and judicial systems we can relate to and respect. Any way you feel we should deal with terrorists from Arb coutries is another matter, but Isreal will need to be accountable for each and every action they commit, just as the US is.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<< For those minimalist government types who dispise any attempts at a single centralized authority, and for those who love kissing Isreal's arse on this one, how do you explain the independent findings of the Human Rights Watch which suggest Isreal has committed war crimes in Jenin? >>



They have NEVER said it was conclusive just an idea. Much like the "idea" of a "massacre"

I can't believe you put faith in these people.



<< Look. I' support Isreal's right to defend itself. But unlike half of you guys here I don't kiss their collective behinds, which I'm sure to some of you that automatically means I'm pro-terrorism. Whatever you want to believe is fine with me... >>



Israel is our ONLY true friend in the middle east and the only democracy. Yeah, I tend stick with people who break out American flags after setember 11th and say "We are with you" then burning american flags and dancing in the street like the Palestinians.



<< And if you're wondering, we do hold ISreal to a highr standard. They're suppposed to be a western demcratic country, one with laws and traditions and judicial systems we can relate to and respect. Any way you feel we should deal with terrorists from Arb coutries is another matter, but Isreal will need to be accountable for each and every action they commit, just as the US is. >>



An interesting stat I heard on NPR. 40% of UN legislation has been directed towards Israel. 40%. Think about that number and then about Seria being in the UN without a finger lifted to discover all of the "dissappearances" of poliitcal prisnors in that country.

The UN is a JOKE. They investigate only what will get them in the papers but TRUE human rights violations by some of their own members, they ignore.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<< It turns out that the Palestinians might have faked some of the funerals according to CNN >>



Thanks for the link.

I've seen the video on television. the "corpse" actually falls out and jumps back in the coffin on his own at one point.

Its pathetic and a true representation of Palestinian honesty and the SUCKERS that believe them.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0


<< I've seen the video on television. the "corpse" actually falls out and jumps back in the coffin on his own at one point. >>

Ahahahahaha:D
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
0
0


<<

<< For those minimalist government types who dispise any attempts at a single centralized authority, and for those who love kissing Isreal's arse on this one, how do you explain the independent findings of the Human Rights Watch which suggest Isreal has committed war crimes in Jenin? >>



They have NEVER said it was conclusive just an idea. Much like the "idea" of a "massacre"

I can't believe you put faith in these people.
>>


Tex, at some point you have to give me an all-inclusive list of resourcs that you find credible, because if you're just going to discredit everything people say no one will be able to debate you. Are you claiming this group has pro-Palestinian motives? I don't know enough about them to say, but please specify and provide details if you're going to shoot them down. BTW the first thing they said was there doesn't seem to be any indications of genocide, but war crimes were committed. The first sentence puts an end to this being just an "idea."

"The abuses we documented in Jenin are extremely serious, and in some cases appear to be war crimes,"

Here's the CNN link BTW, which I'm sure we've all read... http://cnn.looksmart.com/og/pr=FastSitesCustom;tc=;pc=15;ro=1;rc=259;pi=zch|http://cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/05/03/rights.watch.jenin/index.html



<< An interesting stat I heard on NPR. 40% of UN legislation has been directed towards Israel. 40%. Think about that number and then about Seria being in the UN without a finger lifted to discover all of the "dissappearances" of poliitcal prisnors in that country.

The UN is a JOKE. They investigate only what will get them in the papers but TRUE human rights violations by some of their own members, they ignore.
>>


I doun't doubt that. Hypocrisy in a body like the UN's gotta be pretty common. If you bring this up in another thread, you will get no arguments from me.

And I agree that the Palestinians are a deplorable bunch for faking funerals...
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126


<< Because it's institutionalized hatred from the Koran >>

I'm tired of the Israel vs. Palestine debates as it's not my area of expertise anyway. I'm just going to challenge this one statement of yours as incorrect. See here for more info:

The Bible vs. The Koran on various issues of Man.

Flame on, guys. By the way my unofficial stance on this topic is to wish Israel would withdraw in the manner Red Dawn specified, but I don't blame them at ALL for the military incursions they make to stomp out Palestinian gunmen/bombers outside their official borders. What's laughable is how easily Annan folded up the inquiry and went home. Ahh, the whole idea of the UN - nations working together as if they had some common interest - is garbage, what do you expect.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<<

<<

<< For those minimalist government types who dispise any attempts at a single centralized authority, and for those who love kissing Isreal's arse on this one, how do you explain the independent findings of the Human Rights Watch which suggest Isreal has committed war crimes in Jenin? >>



They have NEVER said it was conclusive just an idea. Much like the "idea" of a "massacre"

I can't believe you put faith in these people.
>>


Tex, at some point you have to give me an all-inclusive list of resourcs that you find credible, because if you're just going to discredit everything people say no one will be able to debate you. Are you claiming this group has pro-Palestinian motives? I don't know enough about them to say, but please specify and provide details if you're going to shoot them down. BTW the first thing they said was there doesn't seem to be any indications of genocide, but war crimes were committed. The first sentence puts an end to this being just an "idea."
>>



I just gave you the reason why. These same people from the human rights groups claimed a "massacre" when there wasn't one. These groups claimed we killed as many civilians with us bombs in Afganistan as those who died on September 11th. These same groups again claimed the US was torturing Taliban prisnors. And the most horrific example of bias, no one single humanitarian EVER made a public condemnation of the treatment of US solders at the hand on Iraq.

Thats my evidence. A history of jumping the gun by these groups only to proven wrong later. It should be as much of a conscern for you as it is for me to beleive these groups.

Now that I have given you the reasons I don't believe these groups based on their history, please tell me what they done for you to find them credible.



<< "The abuses we documented in Jenin are extremely serious, and in some cases appear to be war crimes," Here's the CNN link BTW, which I'm sure we've all read... http://cnn.looksmart.com/og/pr=FastSitesCustom;tc=;pc=15;ro=1;rc=259;pi=zch|http://cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/05/03/rights.watch.jenin/index.html >>





APPEAR do you see that word? That is in no way Conclusive yet you pretend it is..

And I just gave you 4 incidences where these groups used the same kind of wording "appear" "could be"

No, I'm not going ot treat that as evidence of anything.



<< I doun't doubt that. Hypocrisy in a body like the UN's gotta be pretty common. If you bring this up in another thread, you will get no arguments from me.

And I agree that the Palestinians are a deplorable bunch for faking funerals...
>>



AND for the sucide bombings, AND for digging up graves AND trying to put more bodies in Jenin, AND boobby trapping buildings in Jenin, AND for taking the church of the nativity hostage....

Try finding human rights groups reporting on these incidents, CLEAR cases of human rights violations.

It just blows my mind that Palestinians can commit atrocity after atrocity but no pays attention until Israel "appears" to have done something.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
0
0


<< I just gave you the reason why. These same people from the human rights groups claimed a "massacre" when there wasn't one. These groups claimed we killed as many civilians with us bombs in Afganistan as those who died on September 11th. These same groups again claimed the US was torturing Taliban prisnors. And the most horrific example of bias, no one single humanitarian EVER made a public condemnation of the treatment of US solders at the hand on Iraq.

Thats my evidence. A history of jumping the gun by these groups only to proven wrong later. It should be as much of a conscern for you as it is for me to beleive these groups.

Now that I have given you the reasons I don't believe these groups based on their history, please tell me what they done for you to find them credible.
>>


These "groups", as you have so happily grouped them into one, provide a natural, if ineffective or even misguided, mechanism to keep Americanomnopotence in check. As I mentioned before, the very first thing we heard from this group in particular, was that there was no mass murders commited by the Isreali army. Maybe other groups said or did what you had mentioned but I don't think you can group all special interest groups into one and label them as untrustworthy.

I don't necessarily find them credible, rather, I find them the most credible source, relatively speaking only, to rely upon in that we don't have too may first hand accounts to go by, since the media weren't allowed much access, till recently AFAIK... And by process of elimination, I'd say they've gotta be a whole lot more objective than asking the Isreali's...

If you were to argue that the atrocities committed by the Palestinians are far greater, I wouldn't disagree with you in the least - but then, thats not the topic of this thread.
 

Kilban

Banned
May 5, 2002
168
0
0
Its obvious Israel is covering up. A few Non-biased papers have reported Palestinians being barried 200 people at a time. Amnesty International has also confirmed the massacres.



<< Muslim extremists are probably always going to make Isreal pay for simply being who they are and where they are at. >>



When Israel give up the land they occupied in 1967, then we'll see if your philosphy is correct.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Kilban

What "non-biased" papers? Please give a link to these non-biased papers, I could use the laugh this morning. The Palestinians themselves have given up on the lie that hundreds were killed. Why don't you?


 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
"When Israel give up the land they occupied in 1967,"

Read occupied as won in a war.

Can someone answer me this. Who occupied that land before 1967. Were the Palestinians protesting that occupation with suicide bombers? If not, why not?
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<< These "groups", as you have so happily grouped them into one, provide a natural, if ineffective or even misguided, mechanism to keep Americanomnopotence in check. >>



How can they be "netural" if they have a history of jumping the gun? Go back and look at this group. They were on the same bandwagon the rest of them were about the Afgan civiian casualities, the treatement of Taliban prisnors, now a massacre that never happened.

By the way, the conclusion this group came too came 3 days after it had already been published. With their history of jumping the gun, I'm much more inclined they did this to save their collective butt than to do it for a higher purpose. I simply do not trust a group that consistantly jumps the gun and ignores other far more concrete human rights violations around the world.



<< As I mentioned before, the very first thing we heard from this group in particular, was that there was no mass murders commited by the Isreali army. Maybe other groups said or did what you had mentioned but I don't think you can group all special interest groups into one and label them as untrustworthy. >>



Let me ask you this. Why hasn't this group investigated Arafat's role in the sucide bombings, a clear human rights and war crimes issue? Why haven't they come out and adressed the hundreds of political prisnors "missing" in Seria?

Thats what I have a problem with, a history of jumping the gun by these groups and selective human right violation investigations.



<< I don't necessarily find them credible, rather, I find them the most credible source, relatively speaking only, to rely upon in that we don't have too may first hand accounts to go by, since the media weren't allowed much access, till recently AFAIK... And by process of elimination, I'd say they've gotta be a whole lot more objective than asking the Isreali's... >>



I simply can't trust this group or any other group that has the track record they have.



<< If you were to argue that the atrocities committed by the Palestinians are far greater, I wouldn't disagree with you in the least - but then, thats not the topic of this thread. >>



I don't want to get up in a historical atoricity list because that never ends. I only care about the here and now. And in the here and now, the Israelis have taken FAR more steps towards peace than the Palestinians ever have.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
0
0


<<

<< These "groups", as you have so happily grouped them into one, provide a natural, if ineffective or even misguided, mechanism to keep Americanomnopotence in check. >>



How can they be "netural" if they have a history of jumping the gun? Go back and look at this group. They were on the same bandwagon the rest of them were about the Afgan civiian casualities, the treatement of Taliban prisnors, now a massacre that never happened.

By the way, the conclusion this group came too came 3 days after it had already been published. With their history of jumping the gun, I'm much more inclined they did this to save their collective butt than to do it for a higher purpose. I simply do not trust a group that consistantly jumps the gun and ignores other far more concrete human rights violations around the world.
>>


Tex, this is hardly worth debating... But very well, I'm bored... I'm not sure that that group was the ones that said in the initial report that there was a mass genocide. Can you show me that?



<<

<< As I mentioned before, the very first thing we heard from this group in particular, was that there was no mass murders commited by the Isreali army. Maybe other groups said or did what you had mentioned but I don't think you can group all special interest groups into one and label them as untrustworthy. >>



Let me ask you this. Why hasn't this group investigated Arafat's role in the sucide bombings, a clear human rights and war crimes issue? Why haven't they come out and adressed the hundreds of political prisnors "missing" in Seria?
>>


I'm not sure. To me thats like WTC victims filing a suit against Bin Laden - basically you're not going to get anything out of it other than the symbolic.... Again, I'm not defending the Palestinians at all, if you've read any of my posts. In fact, I think in the grand scheme of things this topic is a non-issue, atleast until things settle down for a while in the regoin.

Nevertheless, I feel that if Sharon didn't have relative moderates and the microscope of the global media surrounding him, he wouldn't be too different than a Slobo Milosevic. He doesn't hold a candle to the leadership of Rabin, or even Barak.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<< Tex, this is hardly worth debating... But very well, I'm bored... I'm not sure that that group was the ones that said in the initial report that there was a mass genocide. Can you show me that? >>



I'm sorry but I'm leaving and don't have time to look up human right watch's record on things I know they have done.

Perhaps you could locate their public condemnation on the treatment of political prisnors in Iraq at the time.



<< I'm not sure. To me thats like WTC victims filing a suit against Bin Laden - basically you're not going to get anything out of it other than the symbolic.... Again, I'm not defending the Palestinians at all, if you've read any of my posts. In fact, I think in the grand scheme of things this topic is a non-issue, atleast until things settle down for a while in the regoin. >>



But that comes down to the heart of it. If they truely were interested in human rights, they would investigate a leader of a country signing off on human rights violations.



<< Nevertheless, I feel that if Sharon didn't have relative moderates and the microscope of the global media surrounding him, he wouldn't be too different than a Slobo Milosevic. He doesn't hold a candle to the leadership of Rabin, or even Barak. >>



that may be true but its all speculation. We know Sharon has done and it would have been far easier on him to simply bomb Jenin than go house to house.

Well I'm out for now. seeyas.