Surprise surprise: Israel blocks UN Jenin inquiry.

[ThePresence]

<< Sorry, all your Bullsh!t excuses won't fly. The Red Cross Hates us, the UN Hates US, the EU Hates US, the Whole fscking World Hates us. "Nobody likes us everybody hate guess we'll go eat some worms." Let them in for a look Sharon you bastard. Your apoligists will make excuses for you anyway if you are guilty so what are you worried about? >>



Easy for you to say. I doubt you've ever experienced hatred. Dislike maybe. And if I show you evidence of biases that each group u named has comitted, you'll find excuses for them too. So if I'm an Israeli "apologist" then you're an Anti Israel apologist.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< So if I'm an Israeli "apologist" then you're an Anti Israel apologist. >>

You bet. I'm also an Anti Palestinian apologist. I prefer to judge based on facts not fiction.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< They want people on the team who know what fighting is about. They want people on the team who know what it means to fight terrorists inside a booby trapped city. The former head of the Red Cross ( a group which repeatedly rejected Israel's attempts to join), wont know what it is to fight, is not an expert on war. Dead people might look like a massacre to him, but to a military man it may look like war. So why wont Kofi put them on the team? >>



And that is exactly why american colonel is the to advice the team on military issues. there are also two irish experts of terrorism advising the team. And what does Israel.Red Cross relations have to do with this thing? Israel is not yet officially member of the Red Cross, but work is being made for their official inclusion to the organisation. In practise, they already are a member.



<< Maybe there's a reason for that. Maybe the Palestinians fabricated this whole massacre thing, so they dont give a damn who comes to investigate. Israel does. >>



And if cows had wings, maybe they could fly. You are assuming things without any facts. You automatically assume that palestinians are up to no good in this case, whereas Israel is just an innocent victim



<< The UN has an ample history of Anti-Israel decisions. Hell, last year Indian UN soldiers were paid off by Hizballah, and actively participated in the kidnapping of 3 Israeli soldiers. And after the facts were in, and Israel demanded the videotape which these Indian soldiers had take, and which could have provided clues to their wherebouts, Kofi refused. That is but one example of the way the current UN decideds issues that have to do with Israel. >>



You mean This video? Israel has seen it according tho that piece of news. And as always there are more than one points of view to the story.

As to the peace-keepers... To my knowledge there is no evidence of those peace-keepers involvment in the kidnapping, just some accusations.



<< Yeah, 3000 years of violent persecution can do that. >>



So we must allow some things when it comes to Israel because they have been treated badly in the past? It doesn't quite work that way. They too have to play by the rules.

 

[Nemesis77]

<<

<<

<< You know what would be really cool here? If just one of the more vocal Israel supporters here said this was a bad thing. Or at least looked kinda suspicious. >>





<< "Clearly people died in Jenin - people who were terrorists died in Jenin - and in the prosecution of that battle innocent lives may well have been lost. But I don't know the right answer, I don't know the real answer .

"That's why we thought it was important to get an independent fact-finding group in there. And that's the resolution that we supported in the United Nations last Friday, and the Israeli government also supported that resolution." >>



Source

Said by Colin Powell >>



US Secretary of State Colin Powell said yesterday he had seen no evidence of a massacre in Jenin refugee camp, but said it was in Israel's interests to permit a UN team to investigate the bloody battle there.

Lets not pick and choose our quotes. >>



Isn't that just what I said? That Colin Powell thinks it would be smart for Israel to allow the team to go in there. Yes he also said that he has no information that might suggest that there was a massacre. But that doesn't turn Israels claims in to truth.

The fact remains: Powell thinks the team should go to Jenin.

 

[ThePresence]

<< And that is exactly why american colonel is the to advice the team on military issues. there are also two irish experts of terrorism advising the team. >>



So why wont Kofi let them be full-fledged members who will actually be the ones doing the deciding? Nice of him to let them have some input - if they're asked.



<< And what does Israel.Red Cross relations have to do with this thing? >>



Just that one of theam members that Israel objected to is the former head of the Red Cross.



<< Israel is not yet officially member of the Red Cross, but work is being made for their official inclusion to the organisation. In practise, they already are a member. >>



After 50 years. Nice.



<< The UN has an ample history of Anti-Israel decisions. Hell, last year Indian UN soldiers were paid off by Hizballah, and actively participated in the kidnapping of 3 Israeli soldiers. And after the facts were in, and Israel demanded the videotape which these Indian soldiers had take, and which could have provided clues to their wherebouts, Kofi refused. That is but one example of the way the current UN decideds issues that have to do with Israel.

You mean This video? Israel has seen it according tho that piece of news. And as always there are more than one points of view to the story.

As to the peace-keepers... To my knowledge there is no evidence of those peace-keepers involvment in the kidnapping, just some accusations. >>



They finally let Israel see the video THREE WEEKS afterwards. Lots of help.



<< Yeah, 3000 years of violent persecution can do that. >>



So we must allow some things when it comes to Israel because they have been treated badly in the past? It doesn't quite work that way. They too have to play by the rules.[/i] >>



I was just commenting on your victim-mentality comment. I dont think it's an excuse for anything at all, nor is it being used as an excuse.

 

[Nemesis77]

<<

<< And that is exactly why american colonel is the to advice the team on military issues. there are also two irish experts of terrorism advising the team. >>



So why wont Kofi let them be full-fledged members who will actually be the ones doing the deciding? Nice of him to let them have some input - if they're asked. >>



There are plenty of advisors in the team. If they are not consulted, I bet the american in the team will make it public that his opinion was not asked.



<<

<< And what does Israel.Red Cross relations have to do with this thing? >>



Just that one of theam members that Israel objected to is the former head of the Red Cross. >>



I'm well aware of that. But the Isreali-Red Cross relatuionship has already been handled numerous times in the previous threads about this incident, I'm not going to start going over them again! Go look them up. Just because Israel was not a formal member of Red Cross proves that RC is full of antisemites? I don't think so.



<< I was just commenting on your victim-mentality comment. I dont think it's an excuse for anything at all, nor is it being used as an excuse. >>



Israel uses it as an excuse all the time! Whenever someone criticizes them, they just play the nazi-card to silence them. Just search for my "Complaining about Israel = Denied" thread.

 

[Nemesis77]

Double post

 

[ThePresence]

<< There are plenty of advisors in the team. If they are not consulted, I bet the american in the team will make it public that his opinion was not asked. >>



But the question remains. Why wont Kofi let them be full-fledged deciding members of the team?

EDIT: btw nemesis, I appreciate a civil debate. I like your style, you dont resort to name calling like some lesser people do.

 

[Gaard]

<< But the question remains. Why wont Kofi let them be full-fledged deciding members of the team? >>


Has Kofi said why?

 

[Random Variable]

Until the UN says that they will investigate the bombing at the Sbarro pizzeria which killed 15 people, the bombing at the Matza restaurant which killed 15 people, the bombing at the Dolphinarium disco which killed 21 people, the bombing at the Park Hotel which killed 28 people, etc., I don't think Israel should trust the UN.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Until the UN says that they will investigate the bombings at the Sbarro pizzeria which killed 15 people, the bombing at the Matza restaurant which killed 15 people, the bombing at the Dolpharium disco which killed 21 people, the bombing at Park Hotel which killed 28 people, etc., I don't think Israel should trust the UN.

>>

Well until they let the UN into Jenin I am going to think that Israel is hiding something as is most other unbiased Americans.

 

[Random Variable]

<<

<< Until the UN says that they will investigate the bombings at the Sbarro pizzeria which killed 15 people, the bombing at the Matza restaurant which killed 15 people, the bombing at the Dolpharium disco which killed 21 people, the bombing at Park Hotel which killed 28 people, etc., I don't think Israel should trust the UN.

>>

Well until they let the UN into Jenin I am going to think that Israel is hiding something as is most other unbiased Americans. >>


You do realize that many international reporters have been in the camp, right?

 

[Nefrodite]

last i read they had chosen atleast one anti jewish zealot to be on the investigation team. not exactly unbiased this UN. i'd keep them out too.

 

[Gaard]

<< Until the UN says that they will investigate the bombing at the Sbarro pizzeria which killed 15 people, the bombing at the Matza restaurant which killed 15 people, the bombing at the Dolphinarium disco which killed 21 people, the bombing at the Park Hotel which killed 28 people, etc., I don't think Israel should trust the UN. >>


Investigate? As in find out what happened? Doesn't everybody know what happened? Scumbag suicide bombers purposely killed civilians. Is there a discrepancy over how or how many people were killed?

 

[Red Dawn]

<< last i read they had chosen atleast one anti jewish zealot to be on the investigation team. not exactly unbiased this UN. i'd keep them out too. >>

Hey we aren't Israeli Citizens. I think we are capable of determining what is BS and what isn't. Prior to this I had figured the Massacre story to be exagerated BS but now I have mucho suspicions. Way to go Israel, nothing like shooting yourself in the foot!

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Investigate? As in find out what happened? Doesn't everybody know what happened? Scumbag suicide bombers purposely killed civilians. Is there a discrepancy over how or how many people were killed? >>

Exactly. There is no denying the atrocities commited by Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

[Random Variable]

<<

<< Investigate? As in find out what happened? Doesn't everybody know what happened? Scumbag suicide bombers purposely killed civilians. Is there a discrepancy over how or how many people were killed? >>

Exactly. There is no denying the atrocities commited by Hamas and Hezbollah. >>

Hezbollah isn't in the suicide bombing business.

And of course there should be investigations, unless you don't want to know how many of the bombings Arafat and the PA financed and/or coordinated.

You and Red Dawn are the most biased unbiased people in the world.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< You and Red Dawn are the most biased unbiased people in the world. >>

Why, because I'm not an Israeli suck up like you and half the people in this thread?

 

[Czar]

<< Well until they let the UN into Jenin I am going to think that Israel is hiding something as is most other unbiased Americans. >>


You do realize that many international reporters have been in the camp, right?[/i] >>


and you to realize that they arent exactly saying nothing happened, they are rather saying that something happened and after talking to they people there they most definetly are saying that something realy bad happened there.

Why is Israel trying to cover this up?

 

[dexvx]

Now you wonder why a lot of Arabs hate Americans... they have some sort of biased attitude towards Isreal and treats Isrealian point of views like it is the gospel, ever since the day the isreali nation was formed. This form of blind commitment to Isreal and distrust to Arab nations starting in the mid 20th century is what will cause further tensions in the Middle East for probably the next couple of decades.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< distrust to Arab nations >>

Yeah like they are a trustworthy group.

 

[Swanny]

Good for Isreal. The UN is extremely biased against them.

 

[Kilgor]

I?m not defending Israel I think there should be an investigation at the camp. But I would also like to know why the UN let terrorist operate out of the camp in the first place.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Hmm, feels weird, agreeing with Red Dawn...

Both sides commit attrocities, but Israel seems to try and cover them up. If they have nothing to hide they can just as well let the observers in, if they can't find evidence they have no way to put Israel in a bad light either.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Hmm, feels weird, agreeing with Red Dawn... >>

It's kind of nice being right for a change huh?