Supreme Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

[ElFenix]

Evidence that University of Michigan didn't admit black students.

how many black students were at the university of michigan? you don't even have to have de jure discrimination to have de facto discrimination. part of the reason segregation laws weren't prevalent in the north is because there just weren't that many black people to discriminate against.

Also, why do you keep going back to grandpappy instead of pappy? Well other than the almost certainly obvious one that schools everywhere have admitted black students long enough that that a person's pappy could have attended.

i say that because it's a chained effect. daddy got in because grandpappy went in, and now i get in because daddy got in.

edit: not to mention some programs may be generation-skipping like that. texas a&m's took into account grandparents.

 

[Texashiker]

no, i didn't say anything like that.

reading comprehension.

Would you get to the point and stop playing games?

 

[ElFenix]

Would you get to the point and stop playing games?

i already made my point.

 

[Texashiker]

i already made my point.

That discrimination to protect the public health is somehow the same as racial discrimination?

 

[cabri]

Haha, no. Things like legacy admissions and such are just affirmative action for white people, so I'm sure you think it's fine. It's only bad if affirmative action happens to minorities or even worse, women.

Be accepted based on your qualifications not your color/gender/religion/etc.

Anything but is discriminating against some group which is why the civil rights movement started; to eliminate discrimination of a group.

Or having exceptions for discrimination is considered OK as long as it benefits who you favor?

If Asians work harder to get into a public school by having better grades; they should then be penalized because as a group, they tried harder and succeeded?

 

[nehalem256]

how many black students were at the university of michigan? you don't even have to have de jure discrimination to have de facto discrimination. part of the reason segregation laws weren't prevalent in the north is because there just weren't that many black people to discriminate against.

Seems like you allegations of racism are getting more and more far fetched.

Now its no black people lived in Michigan 50 years ago, so legacy admissions of students (whose father presumably lived in Michigan) are racist.

 

[ElFenix]

That discrimination to protect the public health is somehow the same as racial discrimination?

 

[ElFenix]

Seems like you allegations of racism are getting more and more far fetched.

Now its no black people lived in Michigan 50 years ago, so legacy admissions of students (whose father presumably lived in Michigan) are racist.

just because you refuse to acknowledge reality doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

heck, you already acknowledged that there were fewer black people attending college so there's fewer black people with legacy connections so i don't even know what we're arguing about.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36288779&postcount=72

 

[Texashiker]

Yea, I guess so.

I do not have the slightest idea what you are talking about or what your point is.

 

[ElFenix]

You should look up Central State University and Wilberforce University and then maybe you will understand my argument WRT legacy admissions and challenging your assertion that they are both socioeconomic and racial in nature.

wait, so because an HBCU has a question about whether a family member attended an HBCU, legacy admissions can't be racial?

 

[nehalem256]

just because you refuse to acknowledge reality doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

heck, you already acknowledged that there were fewer black people attending college so there's fewer black people with legacy connections so i don't even know what we're arguing about.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36288779&postcount=72

And? Just because a policy happens to favor whites over blacks does not make it racist.

I even gave an example of a policy that would happen to favor blacks over whites. But likewise such a policy would not be racist.

EDIT: It isn't and shouldn't be necessary to make sure that every policy impacts every race equally.

 

[SMOGZINN]

This entire thread is why we need to have a better history curriculum in our schools.

Affirmative action is not 'reverse discrimination' (what ever that is) it was meant as a wedge to force some room at universities that were highly resistant to allowing minorities to enter. Those minorities were completely unrepresented in university boards by college professors and the entire admissions process. Making it easy to have 'soft' discrimination against them. Added to the fact that the primary schools that most minorities went to were (and still are) underfunded, understaffed, and had lower expectations of their students, the system needed a kick start to get minorities into positions to be represented.

Basically you could not ask them to compete on a level playing field because we spent a hundred years making sure the field was not level.

 

[Texashiker]

n m

Get it out in the open.

I have posted my stance in this thread while you have fettle farted around dropping vague clues here and there.

This entire thread is why we need to have a better history curriculum in our schools.

Affirmative action is not 'reverse discrimination' (what ever that is) it was meant as a wedge to force some room at universities that were highly resistant to allowing minorities to enter. Those minorities were completely unrepresented in university boards by college professors and the entire admissions process.

You do know there are colleges who cater to minorities right?

There is one such college in Houston that gives minorities preferential treatment. A buddy of mine went there to get his law degree.

Doesn't the civil rights act give minorities the right to sue over discrimination?

 

[zinfamous]

Haha, no. Things like legacy admissions and such are just affirmative action for white people, so I'm sure you think it's fine. It's only bad if affirmative action happens to minorities or even worse, women.

*nehalem also endorses affirmative action for small kitchen appliances.

 

[zinfamous]

"Reverse discrimination" is cheating at scrabble.

:thumbsup:

 

[SMOGZINN]

You do know there are colleges who cater to minorities right?

There is one such college in Houston that gives minorities preferential treatment. A buddy of mine went there to get his law degree.

Doesn't the civil rights act give minorities the right to sue over discrimination?

Not really sure what your point is. I grew up in Houston, so know that you are talking about Texas Southern University. If you know your history you would know that TSU was originally started by the Houston ISD under the name Texas State University for Negroes in order to fulfill the 'Separate but Equal' requirement when a black man sued the State. This is because both the University of Houston and the University of Texas refused him admittance because he was black.

EDIT: I should also point out that later on the Supreme Court rules that Texas State University for Negroes did not give a equivalent education in law and ruled that UT had to allow admission of black students (which UT did by creating a special 'Negro College of Law' so that white students didn't have to be in the same classes as the black students.)

 

[Texashiker]

Not really sure what your point is. I grew up in Houston, so know that you are talking about Texas Southern University. If you know your history you would know that TSU was originally started by the Houston ISD under the name Texas State University for Negroes in order to fulfill the 'Separate but Equal' requirement when a black man sued the State. This is because both the University of Houston and the University of Texas refused him admittance because he was black.

Ok, you answered part of my post, thank you.

What about suing colleges who discriminate against minorities? Does the civil rights act allow students to take legal action against schools?

Then there are community colleges. Why not just go to an affordable community college?

 

[smackababy]

Not really sure what your point is. I grew up in Houston, so know that you are talking about Texas Southern University. If you know your history you would know that TSU was originally started by the Houston ISD under the name Texas State University for Negroes in order to fulfill the 'Separate but Equal' requirement when a black man sued the State. This is because both the University of Houston and the University of Texas refused him admittance because he was black.

I initially assumed he was talking about Prairie View A&M. Even Mr. T attended!

 

[Texashiker]

I initially assumed he was talking about Prairie View A&M. Even Mr. T attended!

Wiki list 106 black colleges and universities


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historically_black_colleges_and_universities

This list of Historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) lists institutions of higher education in the United States that were established before 1964 with the intention of serving the black community

I wonder if those schools have AA to ensure a certain percentage of whites get in?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98

The percentage of American college students who are Hispanic, Asian/Pacific Islander, Black, and American Indian/Alaska Native has been increasing. From 1976 to 2011, the percentage of Hispanic students rose from 4 percent to 14 percent, the percentage of Asian/Pacific Islander students rose from 2 percent to 6 percent, the percentage of Black students rose from 10 percent to 15 percent, and the percentage of American Indian/Alaska Native students rose from 0.7 to 0.9 percent. During the same period, the percentage of White students fell from 84 percent to 61 percent.

 

[smackababy]

Wiki list 106 black colleges and universities


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historically_black_colleges_and_universities



I wonder if those schools have AA to ensure a certain percentage of whites get in?

I don't think so, but they are quick to transfer white students. I had a friend in high school whose sister (who was white) couldn't get into A&M, so she applied to Prairie View, got accepted and requested a transfer to A&M. They pushed to get it through, so she got what she wanted.

 

[werepossum]

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98

Hmm, based on that it looks as though Affirmative Action is no longer needed. I guess we can look at Michigan in a couple years to know for sure. I would not have guessed we had made that much progress.

 

[Jaskalas]

That's actually not the argument in any way, shape, or form. The argument is that Michigan should use the same standards for determining whether or not to implement a change in admissions requirements in all cases.

And here Sotomayor, in defense of racism, practices judicial activism. This case should become the golden standard for which such terms are used.

 

[DCal430]

Asians face the most harm from Affirmative Action, plenty of Asian groups have high poverty rates, and discrimination, but are excluded from Affirmative Action ptograms. It is discrimination on two fronts against Asians.

 

[fskimospy]

And here Sotomayor, in defense of racism, practices judicial activism. This case should become the golden standard for which such terms are used.

That's really not accurate at all. I would view cases like Roe v. Wade and Citizens United to be much, MUCH better cases of judicial activism.