Supreme Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

[nehalem256]

I think this is setting a precedent that states can make laws against race discrimination (because that is what AA is).

I think it has been precedent for a long time that states can have laws against race discrimination :sneaky:

 

[Texashiker]

which is the good reason behind the age discrimination involved in limiting alcohol sales to people who are 3 years older than the minimum qualification to be an adult.

you just made his argument and you didn't even realize it.

Not selling alcohol to minors is based on sound scientific fact, and not based on race.

The civil rights movement was about equality. AA is reverse discrimination.

People can not demand equality and discrimination at the same time.

 

[smackababy]

I think it has been precedent for a long time that states can have laws against race discrimination :sneaky:

One would hope so, except Michigan's was challenged all the way to the US Supreme Court, which reversed the Michigan Supreme Courts decision the law was bad.

 

[nehalem256]

are you suggesting white people never avail themselves of admissions by means other then SAT scores??

I am saying that such a thing is not relevant to a discussion of AA.

Because those methods have nothing to do with race.

As I stated earlier it would be completely legal to come up with a scheme to preference poor students. And such a scheme would likely favor minorities, but since it was not based on race it would be perfectly fine.

 

[ElFenix]

Not selling alcohol to minors is based on sound scientific fact, and not based on race.

The civil rights movement was about equality. AA is reverse discrimination.

People can not demand equality and discrimination at the same time.

that's nice. it doesn't change the fact that the government can discriminate if it has sound reasoning, and for certain protected classes that's a ridiculously high bar.

 

[TerryMathews]

are you suggesting white people never avail themselves of admissions by means other then SAT scores??

You seem to be laboring under the false assumption that all white people are rich (and therefore able to buy a building for the uni). I assure you this is not true.

Also, I'm going to be an ass and throw this out here: if daddy bought their way in, that kid didn't take a seat away from an underprivileged kid. A new seat was installed, so to speak.

 

[Texashiker]

that's nice. it doesn't change the fact that the government can discriminate if it has sound reasoning, and for certain protected classes that's a ridiculously high bar.

High bar as in how?

How is holding people to the same standards ridiculous?

 

[ElFenix]

High bar as in how?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny

How is holding people to the same standards ridiculous?

reading comprehension bro.


and i'll point out you seem perfectly fine with discriminating against 18-20 year olds for alcohol sales. so you're a hypocrite.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Good ruling imo.

 

[fskimospy]

Good ruling imo.

I generally agree. It's a punt on affirmative action in general, but I don't have a problem with states setting the rules for how they choose their admin policies.

 

[Texashiker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny

reading comprehension bro.

and i'll point out you seem perfectly fine for discriminating against 18-20 year olds for alcohol sales. so you're a hypocrite.

Not sure where you are going with this?

The government promotes discrimination when it sees fit, then gets mad when people do it? What is the word for when there are two sets of laws, one for the government and one for the people?

Kinda like how monarchs and peasants have two different sets of laws.

 

[nehalem256]

The appeals court said the state ban on affirmative action violated the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution by making it more difficult for a minority student to get a university to adopt a race-conscious admissions policy than for a white student to get a university to adopt an admissions policy that considers family and alumni connections.

http://www.freep.com/article/201404...n-on-affirmative-action-in-college-admissions

Seems that the appeals court was racist as it is implicitly saying that a black student would not have family or alumni connections(ie, there are no black college graduates).

Also, I can only imagine the outrage if a white student tried to get a university to adopt a race-conscious admissions policy(that favored white students). Seems like such a policy would, rightly, get a quick bitch slapping by the SC.

 

[ElFenix]

Not sure where you are going with this?

The government promotes discrimination when it sees fit, then gets mad when people do it? What is the word for when there are two sets of laws, one for the government and one for the people?

Kinda like how monarchs and peasants have two different sets of laws.

are you or are you not in favor of discriminating against 18 year olds in the purchase of alcohol?

 

[Texashiker]

are you or are you not in favor of discriminating against 18 year olds in the purchase of alcohol?

Yes I am.

 

[smackababy]

Not sure where you are going with this?

The government promotes discrimination when it sees fit, then gets mad when people do it? What is the word for when there are two sets of laws, one for the government and one for the people?

Kinda like how monarchs and peasants have two different sets of laws.

Again, you have a gross misunderstand of how discrimination laws work. The government scrutinized laws that discriminate (more so for those concerning protected classes) and determines whether the discrimination is valid and just. In a lot of cases, such as drinking age, driving age, voting age, etc, the laws are upheld. In a lot of cases, there is found to be no reason for the discrimination to exist (AA laws are good examples).

This particular case was the SCOTUS upholding Michigan's law banning non-race blind admission processes, which the Michigan SC had overturned for some incredibly stupid reason.

 

[ElFenix]

http://www.freep.com/article/201404...n-on-affirmative-action-in-college-admissions

Seems that the appeals court was racist as it is implicitly saying that a black student would not have family or alumni connections(ie, there are no black college graduates).

acknowledging facts (such as, black people were systemically denied higher education until fairly recently so of course there are less black people that would qualify under legacy admissions) ≠ 'racist'

 

[werepossum]

If I understand this ruling correctly, it very narrowly ascribes to the precedent that gives each state the choice of whether they want to implement affirmative action or not.

Is this so?

With that, I can see where the phrase "Be careful what you wish for..." comes into play, as certain minorities, especially asian minorities with their culture pushing full on hard for their children to excel at academics will be disproportionately represented at certain universities of their choosing should affirmative action with its system of quotas be eliminated there.

edit - Personally, I'm perfectly OK with the USSC's decision.

In theory, so am I. In practice, blacks and Hispanics are much more likely to come up through a failing school system and much less likely to have mitigating factors such as wealth, connections or legacy rights.

I agree that affirmative action is fundamentally wrong; so is enshrining a disadvantaged lower class, especially one based (at least statistically) on race. How do we prevent this without AA?

 

[ElFenix]

Yes I am.

and you feel like there is good reason for this discrimination?

 

[waggy]

Haha, no. Things like legacy admissions and such are just affirmative action for white people, so I'm sure you think it's fine. It's only bad if affirmative action happens to minorities or even worse, women.

all of it should be banned. Just because you can donate 2 million should not get your kid in (though some will argue taht 2 million helps the poor more then keeping the kid out does).

IF you want into the college it should be the same score for everyone. no bonus's for race, money, or sex.

 

[fskimospy]

Seems that the appeals court was racist as it is implicitly saying that a black student would not have family or alumni connections(ie, there are no black college graduates).

No it is not saying that. Learn how to read.

 

[Texashiker]

and you feel like there is good reason for this discrimination?

Yes, of course.

We have numerous scientific studies to backup those types of laws.

 

[nehalem256]

acknowledging facts (such as, black people were systemically denied higher education until fairly recently so of course there are less black people that would qualify under legacy admissions) ≠ 'racist'

With the relevant word being less.

And I can only imagine the amount of liberal outrage if a school starting preferencing white applicants because of race.

In theory, so am I. In practice, blacks and Hispanics are much more likely to come up through a failing school system and much less likely to have mitigating factors such as wealth, connections or legacy rights.

I agree that affirmative action is fundamentally wrong; so is enshrining a disadvantaged lower class, especially one based (at least statistically) on race. How do we prevent this without AA?

Why does the race of people in the "disadvantaged lower class" matter?

And the solution seems simple. What you want to do is give preference to those from said "failing school systems". It seems for instance that if a student gets an ACT score of say 25 from a ghetto Detroit school that is a lot more impressive that from some elite private school.

Nothing in the Michigan law would prevent favor the student from the ghetto Detroit school in that situation, and such a preference would naturally favor minorities, while also helping white students in a similar situation.

 

[ElFenix]

Yes, of course.

We have numerous scientific studies to backup those types of laws.

so, that discrimination suits you?

 

[ElFenix]

With the relevant word being less.

And I can only imagine the amount of liberal outrage if a school starting preferencing white applicants because of race.

that's what legacy admissions end up being. grandpa went to college back when they only let whites in, so i get ++ points on my application!

 

[Texashiker]

so, that discrimination suits you?

As I have already stated, yes it suits me.

I find great joy in knowing high school seniors can not buy a bottle of whiskey then go driving around.