Supplements - Here's what I use... what changes should be made?

[norseamd]

I understand ccrossfit and it is still BS... it's some wannabe fitness cult. It will not get you in shape... it can, but I see just as many flabby bodies on the brink of injury attempting to be crossfit "athletes" as I do in any other gym. the difference? "crossfitters" have an arrogant I know what I am doing attitude when they simply "know" enough to seriously injure themselves. I've been training 20 yrs and some schmuck that has spent 2 wks at a box is going to tell me "now this is what you need to do".... Heck a personal friend of mine lost like 70 lbs doing crossfit and is opening his own gym (box).... would I aspire to look like him? not a freaking chance. You would be correct saying nothing about it interests me.

regardless of whether crossfit is a hyped up particular program or not a cross training workout incorperating calisthetics and cardio and circuit training is probably one of strongest training programs you could find

 

[norseamd]

Should I change out/switch to a new PWO? As I said, I literally just took my last serving, so either I buy some more, buy something else, or finish out the tub of C4 I've got. I definitely feel more of that itchy, let's do this feeling on the C4, but I do kind of feel like (perhaps in my head) that the SuperPump, perhaps alongside with the size-on I drink throughout the workout, does give me a little extra go at the gym. I don't necessarily feel less pumped/excitable, though perhaps ever so slightly, but I do feel like I get a little more boost when actually lifting. Like I can force out a couple reps more, or even handle 5lbs more. That might just be entirely the gym progress itself, versus the supps, but I feel like there is a difference there. I still have much to learn, and it looks like there is a ton of good stuff for catch-up reading at leangains.com (he seems to understand the actual biological/physiological science of honest fitness-focused nutrition - anyone care to steer me away? I love the actual science, good to see claims backed up with journal and research citations and incorporated with personal anecdotes and experiments that match-up with the theoretical studies cited).

you know if i had no injuries and ate the supplements you do and did the excercise you do i would probably be 250 lbs muscle or more

something to remember and you can ask someone other than me if you have to

take care of your spine

 

[surfsatwerk]

training programs

Crossfit is not "training". Training implies a goal of improved performance. The random nature of Crossfit runs counter to the idea of "training".

Now if your goal is to jump around until you're dead ass tired then go knock yourself out.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly

CrossFit – the program on the website and the methods taught at their "certs" – is Exercise, not Training. Exercise is physical activity for its own sake, a workout done for the effect it produces today, during the workout or right after you're through. Training is physical activity done with a longer-term goal in mind, the constituent workouts of which are specifically designed to produce that goal.

 

[norseamd]

Crossfit is not "training". Training implies a goal of improved performance. The random nature of Crossfit runs counter to the idea of "training". Now if your goal is to jump around until you're dead ass tired then go knock yourself out.

not sure what you mean?

 

[norseamd]

this is what i am going to read for the next 30 minutes

not sure why i have not read it ever

https://www.google.com/search?q=tra...:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

 

[Zivic]

you know if i had no injuries and ate the supplements you do and did the excercise you do i would probably be 250 lbs muscle or more

something to remember and you can ask someone other than me if you have to

take care of your spine

you do have injuries (you say), you don't eat the supplements, and you don't do the exercise.

Please don't speculate where you would be when you don't do what it takes to get there

 

[norseamd]

you do have injuries (you say), you don't eat the supplements, and you don't do the exercise. Please don't speculate where you would be when you don't do what it takes to get there

not even going to care

edit: do you ever think you put too much effort into what you think

 

[Zivic]

not even going to care

edit: do you ever think you put too much effort into what you think

all I hear is blah blah blah -> excuses...

You wouldn't be anywhere near 250 lbs of muscle... besides, it is so stupid to even argue it because you don't/can't/won't do what's needed to get anywhere nears it.

 

[alkemyst]

all I hear is blah blah blah -> excuses...

You wouldn't be anywhere near 250 lbs of muscle... besides, it is so stupid to even argue it because you don't/can't/won't do what's needed to get anywhere nears it.

QFT, WTF is this crap doing in H&F?

"I could have been a Mr. Universe if I dedicated my life to training since a teenager and did roids"....so could many people...

 

[jerk-chicken]

nature's bounty probiotic acidophilus pills works wonders for me

 

[slightlyhuman]

Diet is key.

I'm not perfect on my diet but it's definitely getting there. As of now I take the following mon-fri:


2 garlic pills
1 multi-vitamin
3-6-9 fish oil(2) pills
1 magnesium pilll
vitamin a/d combo pill
1 COD oil pill
2 alpha brain(nootropic)

Total Primate care(day and night), it's not cheap but worth it, PACKED full of shit your body needs-- https://www.onnit.com/total-primate-care/#ingredients-use

if i don't eat breakfast, i drink 1-2 scoops of muscle milk for a meal replacement.

re: cultfit... i'm all for people getting in better shape, regardless if it's picking up tires or going to a gym. however, most people i've ran into(my cousin runs the xfit in my town actually) are arrogant pricks that need to spend some time on the humble machine. xfit is all about working together, support etc... ironically the way most members act is very intimidating to the outsiders who want it, what a great scope!!!!

granted, genetics have favored me a lot but i work out for free 3x a week(buddy i work with has a full gym 2 mi from work), have a decent diet(but can always use work), take quite a few vitamins and look better than 85% of the people at the local xfit facility.

whatever works i guess.

 

[norseamd]

muscle milk

grab something else

muscle milk is full of heavy metals and horrible crap

https://www.google.com/search?q=hea...:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

 

[alkemyst]

grab something else

muscle milk is full of heavy metals and horrible crap

https://www.google.com/search?q=hea...:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

Yeah Muscle Milk should be replaced with good ole cheap Optimum Nutrition.

 

[norseamd]

Yeah Muscle Milk should be replaced with good ole cheap Optimum Nutrition.

my go to brand

although i keep wondering what else might have higher quality

suppose i naturally avoid anything with a lot of mainstream acceptance

another one i do not like is lean pro 8

shit smells like petrol

 

[prism]

Promasil has been exceptionally cheap at my local GNC ($20 for 2lb) so I'm getting that while I can.

 

[norseamd]

Promasil has been exceptionally cheap at my local GNC ($20 for 2lb) so I'm getting that while I can.

yah i thought about getting that one time and the guy there talked about it

wondering what goat protein isolate is like

that said it does have calcium caseinate which i try to avoid

 

[slightlyhuman]

Thanks for the muscle milk info, didn't know that. However, I'm going to finish this container I have of it since I only use a scoop-1.5 scoops(wasns't that study with 3x scoops?). Started mixing hemp protein powder with it, eventually to get away from whey altogether and use hemp for my morning meals.

 

[surfsatwerk]

http://alanaragon.com/protein-scare-mongering-courtesy-of-consumer-reports.html

Protein Scare-Mongering, Courtesy of Consumer Reports

By Alan Aragon - alanaragonblog.com

Consumer Reports (CR) recently flailed its arms in attempt to warn the public of the health perils of protein powder. An important thing to consider is that CR is not the end-all authority; it’s merely a single resource to be viewed as critically as any other. No information should be taken on blind faith (even mine!). An early example of CR’s fallibility was a dog food comparison in their February 1998 issue. Iams (one of the companies under CR scrutiny) presented proof that CR mismeasured various nutrient levels. Subsequently, CR published a correction the following month. There are other examples of CR’s mistakes in other industries, but suffice it to say that CR has steered clear of testing dog foods since this 1998 debacle. Assuming that they are the final word on food safety testing would be a hasty move.

In response to CR’s recent protein supplement article, Greg Pickett, founder of Cytosport (maker of Musclemilk), made the valid point that,

“…it must not be overlooked that the substances tested by Consumer Reports are naturally occurring in the environment, and it would be uncommon, if not impossible, not to detect the trace amounts reportedly found in any agricultural product, such as dairy products, fruits and vegetables.” [1].

A very important detail is also noted by Cytosport, regarding the shadiness of the endeavor. CR slickly based its calculations of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) permitted daily exposure limits on a bodyweight of 50 kg or 110 lbs [2]. Using the extreme low-end of adult bodyweight makes it easy to cook up a gripping tale and claim that the amounts exceed safety limits.

Optimum Nutrition (maker of Gold Standard Whey & Platimum Hydrowhey) posted a response comparing the lead, arsenic, and cadmium content of more than 3-dozen ’regular’ foods with the protein powders tested by CR. The facts put things into perspective really quick. Many of these commonly consumed foods absolutely blow away the heavy metal content of the protein powders. Instead of selecting a few examples that stick out to me, I’d encourage anyone to have a look at the entire list, and then relax a little about your protein supps [3].

Now, let’s take a look at another protein-related claim made in the same issue. In an article titled, “How much protein?” CR quotes a nutritionist saying, “The body can only break down 5 to 9 grams of protein per hour, and any excess that is not burned for energy is converted to fat or excreted, so it’s a ridiculous waste to be recommending so much more than you really need.” In short, this is simply a load of bunk prone to misleading people into thinking that anything beyond 5-9 grams of protein per hour will go to waste. I have no idea where this figure was pulled, but my guess is from somewhere that the sun don’t shine. For an in-depth look at the topic of protein consumption per meal, I’ve provided a link to a recent article of mine [4].

Suffice it to say that the idea that protein dosing per meal should be limited to [insert your favorite mythical number here] is usually based on a gross misunderstanding of how the body works - combined with an unawareness of what’s been demonstrated in research. Those who choose to meet their protein needs with 3 meals will assimilate it just as effectively as those who get their allotment over 6 meals. Digestion/absorption is an efficient process whose duration varies according to the size of the dose (our digestive system is way smarter than we give it credit for). Therefore, individual preference and tolerance should ultimately dictate protein dosing per meal. Don’t you love it when simplicity wins?

References

1. Greg Pickett [Statement by]. May 30, 2010. http://www.cytosport.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/cytosportstatement1.pdf
2. Cytosport. Update: Information on the Consumer Reports Article on Protein Shakes. June 3, 2010. http://www.cytosport.com/news/press
3. Optimum Nutrition. How safe is your protein? May 2010. http://www.optimumnutrition.com/news.php?article=874
4. Aragon A. Is there a limit to how much protein the body can use in a single meal? Wannabebig, Feb 22, 2010. http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-...ch-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

 

[SP33Demon]

Yeah Muscle Milk should be replaced with good ole cheap Optimum Nutrition.

There's nothing wrong with MM, although I prefer ON to it. To MM's credit, they don't even use soy in their powder which instantly makes it better than most of the whey "blends" that use soy to cut costs.

 

[norseamd]

There's nothing wrong with MM, although I prefer ON to it. To MM's credit, they don't even use soy in their powder which instantly makes it better than most of the whey "blends" that use soy to cut costs.

personally i find muscle milk dirty although effective

cytosport is a cheap mass produced brand so i avoid them unless it is not possible like buying some stuff from the gas stations

you do need to watch out for soy protein because most soy protein is manufactured with hexane which is a petroleum based chemical

all natural based soy protein is perfectly fine however

 

[SP33Demon]

personally i find muscle milk dirty although effective

cytosport is a cheap mass produced brand so i avoid them unless it is not possible like buying some stuff from the gas stations

you do need to watch out for soy protein because most soy protein is manufactured with hexane which is a petroleum based chemical

all natural based soy protein is perfectly fine however

Soy protein is not "fine" for men. They shouldn't be eating it if they're trying to build muscle.
http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys-negative-effects

Giant canisters of the stuff line the shelves at GNC and similar health-food stores nationwide, each brand touting its unique muscle-building properties. The most common sources of protein used in them are soy, whey, and casein. But the latter two, which come from animal sources, are more expensive to produce than soy. The question currently being debated by strength trainers and researchers is this: Does soy's relative affordability come at a cost to muscle gains?

In a 2005 study in the Journal of Nutrition, researchers comparing soy to casein concluded that "the biological value of soy protein must be considered inferior to that of casein protein in humans." Among other disadvantages, the researchers found, a significantly larger portion of soy is degraded to the waste product urea. Moreover, it contributes to less protein synthesis in the body.

"A protein like whey has much more robust biological effects than soy," acknowledges Kraemer. In terms of strength gains, however, he says more research is needed before he can provide definitive guidelines. "But my personal opinion is that soy protein is cheaper and whey protein is higher quality," he says. "There are also concerns that soy might decrease a man's testosterone production and increase his estradiol production, which we tend to associate with female hormone production."

After retiring from military service, James Price and his wife, Donna, moved to a small farm in Texas. He had a commercial pilot's license and split his time between flying and working the land. His passion was raising and training quarter horses that he broke himself. Price lived the kind of cowboy lifestyle that few of his friends, even those decades younger, had the stamina to sustain.

Donna cooked well-balanced meals, nothing fancy, just standard American fare. It was a good life.

Then Donna developed glioblastoma multi-forme, a lethal type of brain cancer. When she died, Price, then 55, was left to cope not only with his grief but a radical change in his daily routine. Not surprisingly, the diet of the new widower took a hit.

"All of a sudden," he says, "I was living on not-so-healthy meals I'd make for myself." He saw a product advertised on TV called Ensure; it was supposed to provide adults all the vitamins and minerals and other vital nutrients necessary for health. He also started drinking milk, a favorite from his childhood that he figured would supply protein and other nutrients.

Unfortunately, Price soon discovered he was lactose intolerant. "I switched to soy milk because it's lactose-free," he says, "and I had heard that soy milk is supposed to be good for you." He tried it and liked it. Soon soy milk became a regular item on his shopping list, something he bought on autopilot.

In the wake of Donna's death, Price's body as well as his emotions began to change, often in ways that were hard to separate from normal grief. Mood swings and a decrease in libido are not unusual companions to bereavement. But Price had a nagging sense that something was off. "I was becoming much more sentimental," he recalls, describing his emotions as almost feminine. "I'd break out and cry at a sad movie, that kind of thing. It just wasn't like me."

When Price began dating again, it was as if the sexual aspect had evaporated. "I enjoyed the company of women," he says, "but it was just like they were my friends. Even if I had wanted to do anything physical, I couldn't have."

The gynecomastia that eventually developed became deeply humiliating for Price. He stopped wearing T-shirts even on the hottest days, fearing his friends and neighbors might see the telltale bumps beneath the fabric. His breasts by this point resembled the buds of a pubescent girl.

Never once in the subsequent yearlong ordeal of medical testing did it cross his mind that soy milk might be the cause. "I had no idea," he says. "I never gave it a second thought."

The day Dr. Lewi asked him to stop drinking the stuff, he immediately complied. He also began checking the ingredient labels on all other items he regularly consumed. If Dr. Lewi was right, going cold turkey on soy just might begin to reverse the symptoms.

Over the next several months, blood tests revealed Price's estrogen levels were, indeed, dropping steadily back toward normal. Even better, the extreme nipple tenderness began abating. Eventually, his breasts stopped hurting completely and he gradually began feeling a little more like his old self.

Dr. Lewi, who had searched the medical literature extensively when trying to solve Price's case, had come across no papers linking soy to gynecomastia. Realizing his obligation to warn other doctors about the possibility, he told Price he wanted to follow him for several more months and eventually write up his case for a medical journal.

Price readily agreed, grateful for the chance to spare others from his ordeal.
...

A final twist in the Price case, however, shows how difficult it can be to avoid soy. During the follow-up blood testing Price agreed to undergo, his estrogen levels continued to drop, in a virtually linear fashion, back toward normal. Then, several months later, and seemingly for no reason, the positive trend reversed. As soon as he saw that Price's estrogen was once again climbing, Dr. Lewi called his patient.

Before Dr. Lewi could even announce the results, Price said, "I already know what you're going to tell me, Dr. Lewi. You're going to say my estrogen level is coming up."

Dumbfounded, Dr. Lewi asked Price how he knew that without seeing the test results.

Price explained that after switching from soy milk to lactose-free milk, he was in the grocery store one day and bought some more Ensure. Though he'd followed Dr. Lewi's advice and checked the labels on virtually every product he purchased, he'd neglected to check Ensure. "It's advertised as having vitamins and minerals and all the stuff you need to stay healthy," he says.

Only after his breasts started hurting and growing again did it occur to Price that Ensure might also contain the last thing his body needed. He checked the label: Ensure contained soy protein. He told Dr. Lewi that he threw out the rest and was no longer drinking it.

Subsequent blood tests showed that this was enough to send Price's estrogen back in the healthy direction. Several months later, his estrogen levels—once higher than those of most women—were in the low-to-normal range for healthy men. They've remained in that range ever since, but the physical changes to his penis, his loss of sexual desire, and his heightened emotions have persisted.

And while all pain associated with his breasts has disappeared, the tissue unfortunately remains swollen, a consequence of fibrotic tissue changes that take place with long-term gynecomastia. Although Price remains self-conscious about it, he's reluctant to try the only cure—cosmetic surgical reduction. There are too many risks, he says—bleeding, infection, problems with anesthesia—to justify going under the knife at this point in his life.

As for other men who might one day develop a similar problem, Price's advice is unequivocal: Go to your doctor at the first sign of pain or swelling. Symptoms caught and treated early are often reversible.

Price also acknowledges that his body may have an above-average sensitivity to soy's phytoestrogens. Still, his experiences have taught him that the foods we eat are not always what we think they are. Soy protein today is an ubiquitous, profitable, and often buried ingredient in a bewildering number of packaged foods. More than most people, Price was doing his best to avoid it. But he was still tripped up.

"In today's supermarkets," he says, his voice weary, "you can't hardly get anything without at least some soy in it."

Granted, this guy was overly sensitive to soy but that doesn't mean it's good for you even at lower doses and it will mess with your test levels and muscle gains. Researchers have wondered why men's test levels have been declining since the 70's and soy is most likely a large reason why.

 

[destrekor]

Soy protein is not "fine" for men. They shouldn't be eating it if they're trying to build muscle.
http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys-negative-effects



Granted, this guy was overly sensitive to soy but that doesn't mean it's good for you even at lower doses and it will mess with your test levels and muscle gains. Researchers have wondered why men's test levels have been declining since the 70's and soy is most likely a large reason why.

I've heard of potential issues with phytoestrogens. And, now that I recall, I do believe even peanuts are a potential source of bad ju-ju for men.
And I fucking love peanuts. I'm going to have to research that one again.

Soy isn't really all that special, and is mostly a cheap filler-style nutrient, regardless of the type of meal. I haven't gone out of my way to avoid it, but I have avoided buying soy protein and foods with an unnecessary focus on soy. I don't do tofu or anything.

I wonder if a love for tofu has done damage to Pacific peoples in this regard?


edit:
Aw man... just discovered even worse news.
First: soy lecithin possibly contain an unidentified phytoestrogen (or produces similar effects - though we usually consume very little of it, as most emulsifiers are used in low quantities).
Second: flax seed either contains more phytoestrogens than soy itself, or it at least can induce stronger effects on the estrogen balance within the body.

And I've been considering working on buying and incorporating ground flax seed into some recipes to enable a reduction in wheat and/or sugar.

Dammit - all around us, it's simply not about best ever, but the lesser of multiple evils. Avoid gluten and sugar? Yay, I always wanted breasts! Err.. wait. 🙁

 

[SP33Demon]

I've heard of potential issues with phytoestrogens. And, now that I recall, I do believe even peanuts are a potential source of bad ju-ju for men.
And I fucking love peanuts. I'm going to have to research that one again.

Soy isn't really all that special, and is mostly a cheap filler-style nutrient, regardless of the type of meal. I haven't gone out of my way to avoid it, but I have avoided buying soy protein and foods with an unnecessary focus on soy. I don't do tofu or anything.

I wonder if a love for tofu has done damage to Pacific peoples in this regard?


edit:
Aw man... just discovered even worse news.
First: soy lecithin possibly contain an unidentified phytoestrogen (or produces similar effects - though we usually consume very little of it, as most emulsifiers are used in low quantities).
Second: flax seed either contains more phytoestrogens than soy itself, or it at least can induce stronger effects on the estrogen balance within the body.

And I've been considering working on buying and incorporating ground flax seed into some recipes to enable a reduction in wheat and/or sugar.

Dammit - all around us, it's simply not about best ever, but the lesser of multiple evils. Avoid gluten and sugar? Yay, I always wanted breasts! Err.. wait. 🙁

I'm not worried about soy lecithin very much, it's in ON and just about any affordable whey and in very small amounts.

Interesting that you bring up Pacific people and tofu and how it may have feminized them. In a similar vein, I can give you an interesting anecdote FWIW and it may be TMI but w/e. A couple years ago, I started eating a good amount of tofu at the buffet for lunch because I figured more types of protein > less. I loaded up. Oddly enough, one of my dam nipples got super sensitive which I never noticed before that. I will say that it actually enhanced my sex life, however I started reading up on different proteins and their effects on the body and how soy can cause this. Interestingly enough, I stopped eating the tofu and my sensitivity in that nipple went away. Coincidence? I don't know, but I'm not eating tofu again to find out.

Regarding peanuts, I would just stick to almonds although I haven't heard anything about peanuts and estrogen. Flax, I have heard a little about its estrogen enhancing effects but would never eat that voluntarily.

 

[SP33Demon]

Forgot to add this well publicized study from 2013.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24015701

The Effects of Soy and Whey Protein Supplementation on Acute Hormonal Responses to Resistance Exercise in Men

Journal of the American College of Nutrition
Volume 32, Issue 1, 2013

Conclusion: Our main findings demonstrate that 14 days of supplementation with soy protein does appear to partially blunt serum testosterone. In addition, whey influences the response of cortisol following an acute bout of resistance exercise by blunting its increase during recovery. Protein supplementation alters the physiological responses to a commonly used exercise modality with some differences due to the type of protein utilized.

 

[norseamd]

are you talking about soy concentrate or soy isolate?

soy isolate is supposed to have most of the phytoestrogens filtered out already