Success is NOT related to education!

[Pacfanweb]

Actually I think he's about as wrong as can be. Not only that but the concept of "success" and the value of education is vacuous.

What a small people we are. No wonder we are sheared as sheep.

Clarification, if you would, please?

What is being said is, getting a degree in social work, or history, or political science, etc....the liberal arts degrees for the most part, is NOT worth it IF you leave school with $75k loan debt for a job that is going to be paying $30-40k a year.

Do you disagree with this?

The cost of education has gotten ridiculous. What justification is there to spend $75k on a degree that will likely never earn you that much a year?

The reality is, not everyone is cut out for college. There needs to be a push to get more people to attend tech/trade schools. There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing HVAC or electrical work or auto repair for a living. It costs peanuts to get a degree/diploma for one of those professions compared to say, a teaching degree, and you'll make a good bit more money than a teacher will.

I know many auto mechanics in this area earning 6 figures or right at it, and there are zero teachers in this state making that much. I doubt any principals make that much. Now, the mechanics work more hours and don't get all summer off, but the end result is more money, and they didn't start their career owing as much as a nice luxury car costs, either.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Actually I think he's about as wrong as can be. Not only that but the concept of "success" and the value of education is vacuous.

What a small people we are. No wonder we are sheared as sheep.

Please clarify. What I wrote is the reality of the situation. You may disagree with it, but nonetheless, it is reality.

 

[Imp]

A lot of people in my family measure success by the amount of money you make and this seems to be the way for most people that I run across. If you have a six figure income, you are very successful. Doctors tend to be at the top of the list and get that wow factor from anyone you talk to though, not just people in my family.

My family's like that -- bunch of pricks...

I know someone who shits on everyone because he is making $80k and will hit $100k at some point. Don't get me wrong, that's a LOT of money, better than average, better than the national median, enough to set you off on a comfortable life...

But let's get it straight, you're not "rich". You're not a millionaire or billionaire who would be eating/sleeping/playing until the end of time even if he/she loses his/her job. The sad thing is he knows this because he is always worried about the world ending if he loses his job. And he sure as hell isn't "successful" in any other aspects of life.

 

[alkemyst]

My family's like that -- bunch of pricks...

I know someone who shits on everyone because he is making $80k and will hit $100k at some point. Don't get me wrong, that's a LOT of money, better than average, better than the national median, enough to set you off on a comfortable life...

But let's get it straight, you're not "rich". You're not a millionaire or billionaire who would be eating/sleeping/playing until the end of time even if he/she loses his/her job. The sad thing is he knows this because he is always worried about the world ending if he loses his job. And he sure as hell isn't "successful" in any other aspects of life.

$100k is about as close to a million bucks as most will get.

For most of us once we hit that $100k mark (in most markets), moving up higher is harder with about $150k being a ceiling.

Doctors and Lawyers in many lines of work are also hitting that threshold at times.

For them those it's easier to get to $250k or more and $1,000,000+ if a personal injury atty or specialized surgeon.

It really depends what/why he is shitting on people. I hate WalMarts because anytime I go into one I see the worst of our society and see exactly why these people cannot do better. Fuck one morning I needed to pick up toiletries that got lost in travel. A freaking family was using deodorant and other products right off the shelves and putting them back.

Today in Subway some dude wanted a salad, told them 'everything' and then was mad certain things were put on it "because you should know everything doesn't mean that". The kicker was he had only $3.80 to pay and the salad was $6+.

 

[brianmanahan]

My family's like that -- bunch of pr**ks...

I know someone who s***s on everyone because he is making $80k and will hit $100k at some point. Don't get me wrong, that's a LOT of money, better than average, better than the national median, enough to set you off on a comfortable life...

But let's get it straight, you're not "rich". You're not a millionaire or billionaire who would be eating/sleeping/playing until the end of time even if he/she loses his/her job. The sad thing is he knows this because he is always worried about the world ending if he loses his job. And he sure as hell isn't "successful" in any other aspects of life.

lol someone gets a big head over making 80$k?

send him to ATOT. his ego will quickly deflate when he learns that everyone here makes more than 100$k per year.

 

[Pacfanweb]

lol someone gets a big head over making 80$k?

Just depends on where you come from.

My wife's family was dirt poor when she grew up. They literally had nothing. Churches came with presents for her and her sisters at Christmas.

As a result, I had to push her to get anything other than "good enough". She's gotten a lot better about it over the years, but it's still easy for her to cheap out on things because she grew up with so little.

So no telling where that dude who is so proud of his $80k came from. That might be considered filthy rich where he came from.

 

[xeemzor]

lol someone gets a big head over making 80$k?

send him to ATOT. his ego will quickly deflate when he learns that everyone here makes more than 100$k per year.

I thought it was now $150K due to inflation?

 

[brianmanahan]

I thought it was now $150K due to inflation?

it very well may be. we probably need a poll to see.

 

[Imp]

It really depends what/why he is shitting on people. I hate WalMarts because anytime I go into one I see the worst of our society and see exactly why these people cannot do better. Fuck one morning I needed to pick up toiletries that got lost in travel. A freaking family was using deodorant and other products right off the shelves and putting them back.

Because the guy's a narcissistic prick who has nothing else going for him other than a push-over, clingy girlfriend. Lives at home in his early 30s, and a ton of other things where he thinks he's some sort of savior.

lol someone gets a big head over making 80$k?

send him to ATOT. his ego will quickly deflate when he learns that everyone here makes more than 100$k per year.

He thinks only losers post online, so good luck.

 

[alkemyst]

Because the guy's a narcissistic prick who has nothing else going for him other than a push-over, clingy girlfriend. Lives at home in his early 30s, and a ton of other things where he thinks he's some sort of savior.

A ton of other things going for him is usually pretty damn good. Living at home with an $80k paycheck is pathetic though.

He thinks only losers post online, so good luck.

I think you are fighting the wrong battle with him, bro.

 

[her209]

I personally know people....

-That went to Harvard GSE (my ex) and holds a nice director job for city of Cambridge education dept. She 'only' makes 90k. Is she not successful then?

$90k in a Director position in the New England area? That's really low pay.

 

[alkemyst]

$90k in a Director position in the New England area? That's really low pay.

Impossible to determine that without the benefit schedule.

Could include a ton of alllowances.

One of my friends long ago took on a job that he hit a gold mine in. They advertised it cheap, but the description was really interesting (challenging). He took it. I can't remember the details as this was back in the 90's or early 00's. They covered more than his mortgage, his car, and food each month on top of it. Plus free health care and 20% of a W2 to a fully vested pension.

 

[IEC]

$90k in a Director position in the New England area? That's really low pay.

Depends on the other benefits. If it has a pension, for instance.

 

[alkemyst]

it very well may be. we probably need a poem to see.

ftfy

 

[BertolomeoDiaz]

A lot of people in my family measure success by the amount of money you make and this seems to be the way for most people that I run across. If you have a six figure income, you are very successful. Doctors tend to be at the top of the list and get that wow factor from anyone you talk to though, not just people in my family.

sure, but it´s a very limited perspective
do doctors get the wow factor for their money? i don´t think so
and i´d admire any doctor at a community hospital who doesn´t make 6 figures much more than any banker/economist who does
because the doctor´s field of education is of significance for the human race other than "how to grab most money for yourself"
and so is history and other liberal arts, and languages, but those don´t pay that well, so it´s not "success"

not to diminish any good earning people´s achievements, nothing against wanting to earn or earning at all, but glorifying it as some "sole purpose", idon´t know...

the american contitution says "pursuit of happiness",
anyone thinks the founding fathers meant money? (or at least money alone?)
those guys were philosophers with a vision,
earning well being one of the foundations of success but not the success itself

(somehow it´s bickerish fixation and obsession on word meaning/semantics of success on my part, but i still don´t like how the word is commonly used)

but self annonced tv gurus who declare what is and isn´t "success" and meaning: making money equals success
just makes me want to shove a big roll of dollar bills down his/her throat (choke on that, sucker!)
(not particularly this one, but any)

 

[unokitty]

" Michelle Obama's going on: 'Everybody must have college.' Why? Why? What is the reason why everyone has to go to college? Especially when college is so utterly meaningless right now, it has no core curriculum" and "people end up saddled with huge debts," says Ms. Paglia. What's driving the push toward universal college is "social snobbery on the part of a lot of upper-middle-class families who want the sticker in the window."

--Camille Paglia

Thought another perspective might be interesting...

Uno

 

[Rage187]

Responsibility > Education

If you are responsible, opportunities to prove yourself and advance will fall in your lap.

Show up on time, do your job, be pleasant and participate and you will go far.

 

[LegendKiller]

Responsibility > Education

If you are responsible, opportunities to prove yourself and advance will fall in your lap.

Show up on time, do your job, be pleasant and participate and you will go far.

There are some opportunities that are far more difficult, even for smart people, to obtain without education.

While education does not have a perfect correlation to education it does have a strong one. To say that is not "related" us utterly ridiculous.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

There are some opportunities that are far more difficult, even for smart people, to obtain without education.

While education does not have a perfect correlation to education it does have a strong one. To say that is not "related" us utterly ridiculous.

One more time, education does not mean college degree.

 

[LegendKiller]

One more time, education does not mean college degree.

Where did I say "college" above? You must be pretty unsuccessful for failing to even have a small modicum of reading ability/comprehension education.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Where did I say "college" above? You must be pretty unsuccessful for failing to even have a small modicum of reading ability/comprehension education.

Literal ninny.:biggrin:

 

[LegendKiller]

Literal ninny.:biggrin:

And as far as your "correlation is not causation" when somebody pointed out the correlation between income and college degree, using that in such a blatant and broad manner without any contrary information is a logical fallacy akin to saying "nah ah, you might be wrong but I can't prove it so you must be wrong".

There hasn't been a single post here proving with any statistically valid information providing that a college degree doesn't equate to success.

But don't listen to actual statistics, listen to a known liar and MLM huckster. You might as well get your financial advice from Kiyosaki (another liar). He spouts of tons of shit about debt but then had to declare bankruptcy because he was invested long using short-term money. Now he certainly proves that you don't need education to take advantage of people's stupidity by bilking them out to their hard earned money for idiotic and misguided information.

If that is your definition of "success" with a lack of "education" then sure, you can be just as successful as David Ramsey. In that you are no more "successful" than Madoff or post Civil War snake oil salesman.

 

[OverVolt]

And as far as your "correlation is not causation" when somebody pointed out the correlation between income and college degree, using that in such a blatant and broad manner without any contrary information is a logical fallacy akin to saying "nah ah, you might be wrong but I can't prove it so you must be wrong".

There hasn't been a single post here proving with any statistically valid information providing that a college degree doesn't equate to success.

But don't listen to actual statistics, listen to a known liar and MLM huckster. You might as well get your financial advice from Kiyosaki (another liar). He spouts of tons of shit about debt but then had to declare bankruptcy because he was invested long using short-term money. Now he certainly proves that you don't need education to take advantage of people's stupidity by bilking them out to their hard earned money for idiotic and misguided information.

If that is your definition of "success" with a lack of "education" then sure, you can be just as successful as David Ramsey. In that you are no more "successful" than Madoff or post Civil War snake oil salesman.

http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/CollegeAdvantage.FullReport.081512.pdf

Figure 7 I think there is a trend reversal in the benefits of a college degree vs highschool education levels. We need 2010-2013 information to know for sure. Combined with rising tuition and student debt burden and it doesn't look very pretty in 2020 or 2030 which is all I care about since that is MY working prime age. I don't give a shit how great it was 20 years ago. The benefits over high school stopped increasing but the tuition sure hasn't.

There are so many people who got their degree's in the early 80's at that slight dip who just won't ever change their minds, but they rode that curve upward and can't really comprehend anything but that curve rising because it rose for 30 years during their working prime.

 

[LegendKiller]

http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/CollegeAdvantage.FullReport.081512.pdf

Figure 7 I think there is a trend reversal in the benefits of a college degree vs highschool education levels. We need 2010-2013 information to know for sure. Combined with rising tuition and student debt burden and it doesn't look very pretty in 2020 or 2030 which is all I care about since that is MY working prime age. I don't give a shit how great it was 20 years ago. The benefits over high school stopped increasing but the tuition sure hasn't.

There are so many people who got their degree's in the early 80's at that slight dip who just won't ever change their minds, but they rode that curve upward and can't really comprehend anything but that curve rising because it rose for 30 years during their working prime.

So the summary of that study is "yes, it is worth it" yet you want to pick out one trendline and say "nope"???? Are you not reading Figure 7 to show that college educated workers are *still* far better off and will likely continue to be so? You *STILL* haven't proven anything, just picked out one piece of info, which happens to just reinforce my point.

Even with raising student loan debt which will suck future earnings away it is still worth it. Sure, you aren't going to ride a huge upward swing but employees in the 70s didn't either and that generation did just fine. It's about the multiple and that hasn't been any higher any point in that chart except the early 2000s.

It looks fine in 2020-2030 for me, not sure where you are getting any major problems.

 

[OverVolt]

So the summary of that study is "yes, it is worth it" yet you want to pick out one trendline and say "nope"???? Are you not reading Figure 7 to show that college educated workers are *still* far better off and will likely continue to be so? You *STILL* haven't proven anything, just picked out one piece of info, which happens to just reinforce my point.

Even with raising student loan debt which will suck future earnings away it is still worth it. Sure, you aren't going to ride a huge upward swing but employees in the 70s didn't either and that generation did just fine. It's about the multiple and that hasn't been any higher any point in that chart except the early 2000s.

It looks fine in 2020-2030 for me, not sure where you are getting any major problems.

Uh, tuition increasing faster than the benefits. The multiple has topped out but tuition sure has not.