Success is NOT related to education!

[brianmanahan]

Maybe, but his Financial Peace University plan does work. People that follow it get out of debt and into sound financial positions.

which they could have easily done if only they realized that you need to spend LESS than you make, not MORE

 

[DAGTA]

which they could have easily done if only they realized that you need to spend LESS than you make, not MORE

Yes. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. If the plan helps people, I'm all for it.

 

[Hugo Drax]

I hate these sweeping blanket statements.

It's not 100% related or 0%. It lies somewhere in between and getting that degree certainly helps in the eyes of your employers.

It all comes down to PEOPLE & opportunity.

I personally know people....

-That went to Harvard GSE (my ex) and holds a nice director job for city of Cambridge education dept. She 'only' makes 90k. Is she not successful then?

-That went to Northeastern (more than good enough school) and didn't hold a single job since graduation. That's because he's a lazy ass bum that's spoiled.

-That didn't go to any college and started a nice restaurant- opening a third one in 2014.

-That didn't go to any college and works at Starbucks.

All combinations exist.

It depends how much did her Harvard degree cost. And what is the typical salary for a Harvard grad.

If the typical salary is 180k for a Harvard grad and she is making 90K then no she is not a success. She would have been better off going to a less expensive university.

 

[OverVolt]

It depends how much did her Harvard degree cost. And what is the typical salary for a Harvard grad.

If the typical salary is 180k for a Harvard grad and she is making 90K then no she is not a success. She would have been better off going to a less expensive university.

Lucky sperm club broooooo

 

[Capt Caveman]

It depends how much did her Harvard degree cost. And what is the typical salary for a Harvard grad.

If the typical salary is 180k for a Harvard grad and she is making 90K then no she is not a success. She would have been better off going to a less expensive university.

Wait, if she's working in the non-profit sector and making a difference to improve the life of others, she's not as successful as some morally corrupt lawyer?

 

[Thermalzeal]

Slightly off topic, but what about intelligence? Anyone close to or in MENSA find that they suffer for being smarter than their peers, but have difficulty applying their intelligence/knowledge in a valuable way?

 

[RockinZ28]

Know plenty of people without a degree making 6 figures. I'm just about there, never finished school. Love my job, don't live paycheck to paycheck by any stretch, so I'm happy.

Most people I know that went to college got bullshit degrees and can barely make ends meet. I think they really did have the mindset that if they got a degree of any sort they'd be set.

A worthwhile degree will certainly give you more of a chance, but you still need all the necessary skills you don't learn in school to be a success.

 

[NoTine42]

For me, it was very worth it. I went to a top five college and to a top five professional school. Not only did my education open doors for me throughout my life, it increased my income to a level I would otherwise not be able to reach. It took me about six months after graduation to pay off my professional school debt. Now I can do that in a matter of weeks. So for me, it was certainly worth it.

If you went to a crappy school and/or are lazy, then yeah, maybe school is not for you.

That's the key point. No one has a problem if you can pay off your student loan debt in a year or so after graduation.

The problem is the student loan system that approves debt on degrees that won't pay for itself for 20 years.

If most students in your school with your major only make 30k, then you are not approved for more than 30k lifetime student debt. If you want a low paying degree, fine...get a job and pay cash as you go.

 

[child of wonder]

That's the key point. No one has a problem if you can pay off your student loan debt in a year or so after graduation.

The problem is the student loan system that approves debt on degrees that won't pay for itself for 20 years.

If most students in your school with your major only make 30k, then you are not approved for more than 30k lifetime student debt. If you want a low paying degree, fine...get a job and pay cash as you go.

It was once suggested that colleges offer degrees where the graduate pays some small percentage of their income for 10 years after graduating; say 5%. This would offer incentive for colleges to offer worthwhile degrees, teach students important job skills like interviewing and negotiating skills, and would make graduates an investment the college tends to by offering better job placement programs and networking opportunities with companies looking to hire graduates.

This method of payment opens up a whole can of worms and problems with enforcement, but if it could be made to work would radically change the collegiate landscape for the better in my opinion. Colleges would no longer view students as merely a customer to get in the door where they're guaranteed ever increasing tuition and fees free from bankruptcy to students being an investment whose success is directly tied to that of the college.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What types of careers do they have? Personally, I don't measure one's success by how much money that they make. If they're happy, helping to make this world a better place, raising good children, etc., they're successful in my book.

You're right, of course. Money shouldn't be the sole indicator of success; what really matters is whether or not you're happy.

 

[Corporate Thug]

I know plenty of college dropouts doing great.

You can't look at just your circle...you have to look at averages.

On average, the college grad will make ~20k more per year.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnebersole/2012/08/08/why-a-college-degree/

 

[jammix]

All of us want success. We all want to be popular and meet our goals. Some are born into successful families and are exposed to traits such as popularity, talent and values and have the opportunity to develop many of these same characteristics growing up.

 

[OverVolt]

You can't look at just your circle...you have to look at averages.

On average, the college grad will make ~20k more per year.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnebersole/2012/08/08/why-a-college-degree/

An average that includes the baby boomers who lived through some of the greatest decades of prosperity at a time when few went to college, thus giving them an upper hand in the job market?

You don't say!?

Only 20k considering? Sheesh. Us Youngin's must be dropping the statistics fast. Lets check some old articles and see if the divergence got smaller in recent times.

I love old articles compared to modern day, always a good read. Page 44 BLS 2004-2014 college job outlook predictions should be full of gems (Essentially the first page "Higher earnings, lower unemployment")

That says in 2005 a Bachelors made $937/week and highschool graduates made $583/week on average. 52 weeks in a year so thats $18,404. Hmm I was looking for a higher number in the past going by the theory that if recent grads are making less than they did previously they would be bringing down the average. I got the opposite so something must be going on.

Then I checked THEIR source. The big payoff

:awe:

:awe:

:awe:

Its from 2002 :awe:

Who needs a time machine when you have the internet?

What next? Working in factories? The hot new trend for recent highschoool graduates[1]Sept1973. I do like both of those old articles though. Easier language, clear methodologies, clear limitations of their data, etc. Newer studies and articles that cite statistics are never that straightforward anymore. We've clearly gotten dumber over the last decade that is for sure.

That being said its a 2012 article masquerading around with 2002 data.

 

[halik]

I know plenty of college dropouts doing great.

I know a bunch of people that jumped off a bridge and were fine.

 

[OverVolt]

Forbes runs quite a few articles on the subject apparently.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/saranyakapur/2013/04/11/is-your-college-degree-worth-it-find-out/

No particular purpose honestly just thought it was cool.

http://www.collegeriskreport.com/

The website they link is super-cool.

I ran one for my school/degree so my parents stop quoting aol.com from 1992 about what a great investment it is.

 

[IEC]

College is not a substitute for ambition, motivation, and talent.

It will however open doors for you that might otherwise remain closed.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Earnings are not related to college degrees.

Ftfy.
Earnings are one component of being successful and not always the most important one. Education is not synonymous with college degrees.

 

[PlanetJosh]

I'm glad mmntech added that it takes some luck to be a financial success. Getting tired of conservatives and others implying or saying you will succeed if you work hard. Do that and the result is often being in debt at the end of your life through no fault of your own. But you don't often hear that from the "hard work" people. Hard work is still required most of the time of course, with a healthy dose of luck as mmntech put it.

I'm approaching this from a left leaning well to do lifestyle. My family is well off and I'm a trust fund baby with a decent chunk of it already in joint accounts with my father. The bulk of it is still in his name. But I'm not so sure the system is fair, just look at all the poor and food stamps recipients. Unless you want to go down the road of Uncle Sam spoiling us with the food stamp program. But that's for another forum.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I've done some thinking about how pervasive the idea that you MUST go to college to be successful is. BTW it was much the same when I graduated hs in the dark ages. Who has a vested interest aside from your parents and the schools we go to that we all go to college? The corporations of course. Who believes that corporations have our best interests at heart?

 

[ponyo]

I know a bunch of people that jumped off a bridge and were fine.

Then you must know bunch of dropouts. People who jump off bridges are risk takers. They have lower floor but way higher ceiling.

 

[Spungo]

I love how angry Dave gets in that video. I'm guessing he's had a lot of terrible job interviews.

 

[mikeford]

College is one of the best times of your life, if you are not smart enough to take advantage of this, likely not smart other ways as well. However the bitterness may drive you to seek monetary rewards that give the appearance of success.

 

[brianmanahan]

Yes. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. If the plan helps people, I'm all for it.

dave ramsey's plan sets people up with unrealistic expectations

i have friends who think they will make %12 REAL return on their investment (which they keep at %100 stocks because dave says it is a good idea), and they plan on being able to withdraw %8 per year in retirement and not run out

 

[highland145]

You're right, of course. Money shouldn't be the sole indicator of success; what really matters is whether or not you're happy.

But if you're happy living under a bridge you might be off your meds.


Depends on the definition of education. I'm assuming a college degree. I have one. Never used it because I was too lazy to study while there. My bro, the 10th grade dropout, is a quite successful plumber.

Desire, applying yourself, intent, opportunity, the right mentor, a little luck is nice.

 

[rudeguy]

College is the biggest ponzi scheme out there.