Success is NOT related to education!

[Demoralized]

The thing people don't understand is that if you don't go to college and get a degree, you have to work infinitely harder than someone who did to move up in this world.

Not true. I went to trade school for welding. I don't work that hard, most of the time I'm sitting on a chair welding, moving material with an overhead crane or fitting a skid. Next year I'll make roughly 100k, trade school education. My friends who are teachers, desk monkeys (various kinds and jobs) and even police have very little chance of making the money I do. They have 4 years + of university and I have a total of 24 weeks of trade school. (3 6 week periods, I tested out early as opposed to the 8 weeks the course usually takes) I would say they are working harder than I am, yet I'm getting ahead.

 

[Imaginer]

Not true. I went to trade school for welding. I don't work that hard, most of the time I'm sitting on a chair welding, moving material with an overhead crane or fitting a skid. Next year I'll make roughly 100k, trade school education. My friends who are teachers, desk monkeys (various kinds and jobs) and even police have very little chance of making the money I do. They have 4 years + of university and I have a total of 24 weeks of trade school. (3 6 week periods, I tested out early as opposed to the 8 weeks the course usually takes) I would say they are working harder than I am, yet I'm getting ahead.

Perhaps...

You are in a workforce area where you are probably the best in that trade in your geographical area, with not much people to compete with and to considering for that particular job market?

Your other friends, probably can't leverage that much gain in salary. Your employer (or possibly even self?) is very much keeping you around because there are not a lot of fish in the sea in terms of good, validated weld workers, because it is hard to find a replacement immediately versus other fields.

 

[MagickMan]

Success is not related to education?? Bullshit.

Check out zipskinny.com and look up any wealthy city in your area. Look at the percentage of that population who have a bachelor degree or higher.

Now look up any ghetto in your area or any poorer city and see how many percentage of that population have a college degree or even a high school diploma

To a point, it is. An MBA is great, but in the long run it doesn't really matter if it's from Brown or the Univ of Indiana. Yet, the price difference between the two is over $100k (for 6 years). If you have the money, or the scholarships, go to Brown, no doubt it's a more "intellectually stimulating" place, but for Christ's sake don't go in debt over your head to attend there. :\

I went to Vanderbilt, but I had scholarships, a grant, and a college trust set up for me when I was a baby. When I got out, with a "crappy" Master's in History, I only owed ~$15k, so it was manageable. If I hadn't had those things I would have went to a state college instead.

 

[Imaginer]

You're speaking in tongues. If folks like brianmanahan were capable of having a wider viewpoint, the country wouldn't be in the poor shape it is.

Care to guess what my additional flag on success is? (I am no longer solely referring to the individual success FYI)

i totally agree with you. Education widen one's field of vision

And... OP's thread indicates or infers that one does not need to have any additional higher learning. Thus you can closely see where I am getting at in where the solution needs to be for a given community or city, state, or country needs to be.

If everyone was able to properly come to a logical, cognitive, objective, unbiased (as much as possible) reasoning, then our representative system will not be as flawed. That requires higher level education to add and enhance thinking and awareness beyond a single, one-side viewpoint.

It would be great if that was all parts of basic grade school K-12. But we are regressing on that front (I believe) in the US.

Also, higher (more especially with bachelors and beyond) education, no matter what flavor of degree, they teach you how to even more thoroughly analyze, even more critically so, and in some cases turn it around and apply.

If everyone had that mentality, yes, we all can double check and be aware of each and everything that is wrong and solve problems as problems continually show up with as little conflict and more agreement as possible - based on needs on an individual level, community level, and levels overlapping.

I am speaking generalities. This thread wants success flag events that can apply to the individual, without (and possibly wanting to abstain) continuing education.

 

[OverVolt]

Success is not related to education?? Bullshit.

Check out zipskinny.com and look up any wealthy city in your area. Look at the percentage of that population who have a bachelor degree or higher.

Now look up any ghetto in your area or any poorer city and see how many percentage of that population have a college degree or even a high school diploma

Lucky sperm club. Middle class people feel the need to blow all their wealth on a degree to fit in or try and get ahead but being hardworking, having the proper work ethic, entrepreneurial, ambitious etc. can take any form.

Was just watching the history channel and Henry Ford proposed his car for the common man idea to A.L.U.M a major automotive monopoly at the time who owned the patent. They rejected him after he waited for 6 months to hear back. He decided to just go ahead with it anyway but built up some buzz beforehand. He raced "the fastest man in the world" in a car he built, and beat him. He used the fame to raise venture capital in two rounds. Equivalent to $700,000 adjusted for inflation and he started making cars. It was inevitable that A.L.U.M. sued him, and they did. But he already got the ball rolling and had power of his own. Didn't really see how it ended but you know, not exactly a surprise.

Key to success is alot of things. "Please sir may I use your patent" probably isn't it.

 

[OverVolt]

Care to guess what my additional flag on success is? (I am no longer solely referring to the individual success FYI)



And... OP's thread indicates or infers that one does not need to have any additional higher learning. Thus you can closely see where I am getting at in where the solution needs to be for a given community or city, state, or country needs to be.

If everyone was able to properly come to a logical, cognitive, objective, unbiased (as much as possible) reasoning, then our representative system will not be as flawed. That requires higher level education to add and enhance thinking and awareness beyond a single, one-side viewpoint.

It would be great if that was all parts of basic grade school K-12. But we are regressing on that front (I believe) in the US.

Also, higher (more especially with bachelors and beyond) education, no matter what flavor of degree, they teach you how to even more thoroughly analyze, even more critically so, and in some cases turn it around and apply.

If everyone had that mentality, yes, we all can double check and be aware of each and everything that is wrong and solve problems as problems continually show up with as little conflict and more agreement as possible - based on needs on an individual level, community level, and levels overlapping.

I am speaking generalities. This thread wants success flag events that can apply to the individual, without (and possibly wanting to abstain) continuing education.

"Please sir may I use your methods"

 

[Mixolydian]

Success CAN be achieved without higher education, but many (most?) don't have the talent, resources, or work ethic to make it happen.

 

[Sea Moose]

I think its very different here (Australia)

But a 16year old that drops out in year 10 and pursues a top tier trade (plumber, Electrician etc) could be on AUD70K by the time they are 20.

If they are living with their parents, they might be able to do a 2nd trade, (dual trade HVAC/Electrician is a very good combo)

By then the person is about 24 years old and should be ready to move out of home if not already. Getting a job at the Mines the person would be on AUD120k plus

Another option is to join the military and do four years infantry and then do four years trade... diesel fitter or somthing. Come out of military with a ticket.

I would have much much prefered the top two options than going to university, which i think is an ovepriced waste of time ... unless you are doing a career specific degree. Law, medicine etc...

Arts WTF? seems like university's are trying to broaden revenue streams.

 

[Sea Moose]

The biggest problem i have is high schools that base their kpis on how many students they can squeeze into university...

Also, how one person measures sucess, is different to another..

One person considers driving a ferrari a success another considers having a family as success

 

[BeeBoop]

AUD currency is inflated. You guys pay twice as much for the same items Americans do. Your homes prices are also insane. So you can't compare a 100k aud salary to an American 100k salary.

 

[Sea Moose]

AUD currency is inflated. You guys pay twice as much for the same items Americans do. Your homes prices are also insane. So you can't compare a 100k aud salary to an American 100k salary.

I just wanted to take part in the conversation

 

[BeeBoop]

lol well one thing that's good about Australia is that your jobless rate is low.

 

[brianmanahan]

You're speaking in tongues. If folks like brianmanahan were capable of having a wider viewpoint, the country wouldn't be in the poor shape it is.

what does my definition of success have to do with the shape of the country?

 

[alkemyst]

what does my definition of success have to do with the shape of the country?

You are one of the proud and many setting us full sail to fail.

BTW....the percent sign (%) goes behind the number. %75 is embarrassing. 75% is proper. Poem is not spelled Pome, either.

 

[MagickMan]

lol well one thing that's good about Australia is that your jobless rate is low.

Because they have a population smaller than the state of Texas (by 4 million people), but are 10x larger in surface area.

 

[brianmanahan]

You are one of the proud and many setting us full sail to fail.

BTW....the percent sign (%) goes behind the number. %75 is embarrassing. 75% is proper. Poem is not spelled Pome, either.

tbh i dont know what your definition of "fail" is

but i would have to disagree with you there

 

[alkemyst]

The biggest problem i have is high schools that base their kpis on how many students they can squeeze into university...

Also, how one person measures sucess, is different to another..

One person considers driving a ferrari a success another considers having a family as success

That's like major extremes.

Many have a few ferraris and a family, all taken care of.

The masses need to step up rather than bitch about all the problems in the world.

 

[alkemyst]

tbh i dont know what your definition of "fail" is

but i would have to disagree with you there

Sorry you were thrown down stairs repeatedly as a child.

I get it now.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

At the end of the day, success is defined differently from person to person and I'd imagine that the commonality in all those definitions is one's level of happiness in life. I don't need millions and millions of dollars to be happy and I certainly wouldn't put in 100+ hrs/week to try to make that happen, as time with family/friends and my hobbies are more important to me.

The knock many here on AT have against higher education is the debt people accumulate while pursuing degrees which give you little or no marketable skills, not education itself. Before someone pipes up with "the purpose of college is to get a well-rounded education, not job training!", I'd say that was and still is true for the wealthy. Several decades ago, people started using college as a way to climb up the ladder and jump into a new social class. As the enrollment numbers have increased and the business world has become more and more competitive, businesses want people who have marketable skills, not degrees in Medieval Patterns of Feminism. My passion is history and I would love nothing more than to sit around and read/study history all day, but I recognized at a young age that it wouldn't pay the bills so I chose a degree that had some marketability (Electrical Engineering). If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd quit my job within minutes of winning and probably travel to historical sites around the world 50% of the year and do lots of historical studying.

 

[JManInPhoenix]

The knock many here on AT have against higher education is the debt people accumulate while pursuing degrees which give you little or no marketable skills, not education itself. Before someone pipes up with "the purpose of college is to get a well-rounded education, not job training!", I'd say that was and still is true for the wealthy. Several decades ago, people started using college as a way to climb up the ladder and jump into a new social class. As the enrollment numbers have increased and the business world has become more and more competitive, businesses want people who have marketable skills, not degrees in Medieval Patterns of Feminism. My passion is history and I would love nothing more than to sit around and read/study history all day, but I recognized at a young age that it wouldn't pay the bills so I chose a degree that had some marketability (Electrical Engineering). If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd quit my job within minutes of winning and probably travel to historical sites around the world 50% of the year and do lots of historical studying.

:thumbsup:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

:thumbsup:

Actually I think he's about as wrong as can be. Not only that but the concept of "success" and the value of education is vacuous.

What a small people we are. No wonder we are sheared as sheep.

 

[BertolomeoDiaz]

I came across this video today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m38Bt8xaZFE

I agree. Dave isn't saying education isn't important. Education is important, but at what cost? Is it smart to go $60,000 in debt to obtain a History degree?

He also states that 1/5 of young males live in their parent's basement.

Finally, he touches on an important topic. Young people have poor relational skills today.

maybe a system sucks, where you have to invest 60000$ to get a history degree

what is success? money?

education is a value in itself, especially history and earning-wise "irrelevant" subjects

the tax payer should pay for that, for all school and university education (probably an outrageous claim west of the atlantic ocean)

didn´t watch the video and i don´t think i will

 

[BeeBoop]

A lot of people in my family measure success by the amount of money you make and this seems to be the way for most people that I run across. If you have a six figure income, you are very successful. Doctors tend to be at the top of the list and get that wow factor from anyone you talk to though, not just people in my family.

 

[Pacfanweb]

ugh, i hate dave ramsey

he is a crutch for people who cannot think for themselves

Maybe, but there are a LOT of those people.

Remember the old George Carlin bit:

"You know how stupid the average person is? Now realize that half of 'em are stupider than THAT".

It's true. "Average" is NOT smart at all, and if you are of above-average intelligence, as I would think a great many ATOT-ers are, "average" seems really dumb.

I can say this: I worked with the public for years and dealt with some really dumb people....but I never realized just how many of them were still considered "average" until my kids went to elementary school.

My kids are in the very top percentage, and we are blessed because of it.....but I've seen now what is considered "average"....and DAMN. What is considered "average" I would consider to be barely over caveman level intelligence, and there are a LOT of them.


So...while Dave Ramsey might be viewed as a crutch for people who can't think....just remember, the people you speak of make up half, and probably more of America. Or any other nation.
He IS speaking to the masses....and honestly, they would be very well-served to follow his advice, as they aren't smart enough to do any better otherwise.

 

[Pacfanweb]

A lot of people in my family measure success by the amount of money you make and this seems to be the way for most people that I run across. If you have a six figure income, you are very successful. Doctors tend to be at the top of the list and get that wow factor from anyone you talk to though, not just people in my family.

The whole "life and death in their hands" aspect of being a doctor might make up a little more of the way they are viewed than just the money they make, I would think.

I do agree about the six-figure income being a measure of how success is viewed.

If you make six figures, ANYWHERE in the US, you are doing well for yourself. Now obviously, $100k goes a lot farther in some places than others, but you should be living comfortably anywhere if you are making that much or more.

Now.....whether YOU or others consider that "successful" is a personal measure. If you thought you'd be a multi-millionaire by 35 and in reality you're "only" making $250k, you might consider yourself to not be a failure, but maybe not "successful".
Success is all about perspective.

Here's a sports-related example:

College football

A coach that wins 6-7 games and goes to a minor bowl game is considered "successful" at a school like Boston College, Minnesota, Wake Forest, Duke, or any smaller conference school. Do that for 5-10 years and the fans love you.

Now, win 6-7-8 games at Texas or Alabama? You are fired, even though are playing a tougher schedule than the other teams I mentioned, and none of them could have a winning season against your schedule.
Why? Because of expectations, and the definition of "success" by different people/schools/organizations/etc. "Success" at those schools is winning your conference, playing for the national title and going to a major bowl game if you are not playing for the title.