Studies show having children sucks, having more children even more so

[ShawnD1]

Mortgage: $1291
Student Loans: $679
Phone, cell, cable, internet, electric, propane: $529
Car: $534
Auto, life, disability insurance: $198
Groceries: $400
Gas: $240
Day care: $866

Mortgage seems reasonable. A cheaper house might be available but I don't know your situation enough. A crack house in Vancouver is half a million dollars while a huge mansion in Detroit is cheaper than a car. Where do you live?

School in the US must be brutally expensive. I think my tuition for my entire year last year was only about $4500. Anyone working part time at Wendys could afford it

Phone and stuff seems a bit expensive. Winter months are horrendously expensive here, but summer is fairly cheap because the gas and electricity might only be about $200 combined. My phone is $43 per month, double it for a wife, internet is $40, so like $350 total would seem reasonable. Again, this changes with location, so your costs might be totally ok for that region. Avoid things like F@H on your computers, undervolt computers when possible, set computers to extremely aggressive energy settings such as going to sleep after 5 minutes of inactivity, turn off the lights when you leave the room, etc. Another thing that has a large effect is to cover your pots when cooking things. Also, boiling water always has the same temperature, so boil water at the lowest temperature setting; don't just set the stove to max and boil the shit out of everything.

Why is your car so expensive? It sounds like you bought a fully loaded Honda Accord with the V6 and nav package or something like that. Nice used cars can be had for $2000.
edit: I should add that my parents drove the same car for 20 years. They purchased a second car from my uncle for about $2000, which is actually above the blue book value but they know the history of the car and how well it was maintained.

Your groceries are expensive. In my family of 4, groceries were always about $400 per month (10 years ago) and that's in Canada. Here, things like milk and cheese are literally twice as expensive as they are in the US, and our money is worth less as well. I see US commercials for shit like a loaf of bread being 25 cents while here it's inflated up the ass and might cost a dollar. Buy cheaper food. Try different no name brands. Sometimes the store brand is really good and sometimes it's shit. No name coke, ketchup, and chocolate ice cream are really good where I shop.

 

[MJinZ]

Actually low barometric pressures = substantially lowering boiling temperatures for water.

 

[lxskllr]

This is a common economics fallacy. When the population grows, the economy grows to create more jobs. More people working makes productivity and wealth go way up.

At what expense? Again, the more, more, more mindset is fundamentally flawed. Wealth goes up, but free time goes down, and the kids go to hell. For any given population, about 50% is female. That's the way it's always been, and the way it always will be. If there's 100 people, and 50 are free to work, the value of those 50 will be greater than if there's 100 free to work. You said we can just make and buy more shit to artificially support that workforce, but it isn't sustainable forever, either on a private, or worldwide scale....

 

[chin311]

me and the gf are in the 'no kids no way not ever' crowd.

i get enough of other peoples kids when they annoy the fuck out of you everywhere you go, yes please let your child run free all around the store and let them cry and make a scene and ruin the peace. i could go onnnnnnnnnnn

 

[MJinZ]

At what expense? Again, the more, more, more mindset is fundamentally flawed. Wealth goes up, but free time goes down, and the kids go to hell. For any given population, about 50% is female. That's the way it's always been, and the way it always will be. If there's 100 people, and 50 are free to work, the value of those 50 will be greater than if there's 100 free to work. You said we can just make and buy more shit to artificially support that workforce, but it isn't sustainable forever, either on a private, or worldwide scale....

The womenz just go do the womenly jobs, like stewardess, waitress and maid. It works out.

 

[SagaLore]

I agree wholeheartedly with these studies. :whiste:

 

[Jumpem]

Alright, I skimmed " On just my income we woukd not be able to pay the bills. Let alone save anythig. " and got the impression that it took both of your incomes to pay your bills.

Anyway, if you are saving $2k a month, then why are you complaining?

Not complaining per se, just saying that a single income is not enough to have an average comfortable lifestyle for most people.

 

[Jumpem]

Mortgage seems reasonable. A cheaper house might be available but I don't know your situation enough. A crack house in Vancouver is half a million dollars while a huge mansion in Detroit is cheaper than a car. Where do you live?

School in the US must be brutally expensive. I think my tuition for my entire year last year was only about $4500. Anyone working part time at Wendys could afford it

Phone and stuff seems a bit expensive. Winter months are horrendously expensive here, but summer is fairly cheap because the gas and electricity might only be about $200 combined. My phone is $43 per month, double it for a wife, internet is $40, so like $350 total would seem reasonable. Again, this changes with location, so your costs might be totally ok for that region. Avoid things like F@H on your computers, undervolt computers when possible, set computers to extremely aggressive energy settings such as going to sleep after 5 minutes of inactivity, turn off the lights when you leave the room, etc. Another thing that has a large effect is to cover your pots when cooking things. Also, boiling water always has the same temperature, so boil water at the lowest temperature setting; don't just set the stove to max and boil the shit out of everything.

Why is your car so expensive? It sounds like you bought a fully loaded Honda Accord with the V6 and nav package or something like that. Nice used cars can be had for $2000.
edit: I should add that my parents drove the same car for 20 years. They purchased a second car from my uncle for about $2000, which is actually above the blue book value but they know the history of the car and how well it was maintained.

Your groceries are expensive. In my family of 4, groceries were always about $400 per month (10 years ago) and that's in Canada. Here, things like milk and cheese are literally twice as expensive as they are in the US, and our money is worth less as well. I see US commercials for shit like a loaf of bread being 25 cents while here it's inflated up the ass and might cost a dollar. Buy cheaper food. Try different no name brands. Sometimes the store brand is really good and sometimes it's shit. No name coke, ketchup, and chocolate ice cream are really good where I shop.

North of Syracuse, NY. The house was $117k. The car was a new mid level Outback. We drive 30k annually, so I want new cars that are reliable.

Our student loans totalled $70k from a private school. Not bad when the school stickers for $40k per year.

We do buy alot of cheap groceries. We don't buy expensive dinners or steaks. Groceries just keep going up.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Not complaining per se, just saying that a single income is not enough to have an average comfortable lifestyle for most people.

Don't try and talk adult things with most of these guys. Alot of em are sucking the gub'ment tit or living at home with mommy. Unless you have a kick ass job it's almost impossible for one job to raise a family and have a decent standard of living.

 

[ShawnD1]

me and the gf are in the 'no kids no way not ever' crowd.

i get enough of other peoples kids when they annoy the fuck out of you everywhere you go, yes please let your child run free all around the store and let them cry and make a scene and ruin the peace. i could go onnnnnnnnnnn

One thing to keep in mind is that kids only do this when their parents are retarded (or if the kid really does have some kind of mental disability).

This reminds me of some TV show I was watching. Probably doctor Phil. Some retarded parents were on there saying their kids have ADHD or they don't listen or something like that. Phil had a camera crew follow the kids throughout the day to see how they acted in all situations. Around the parents, they acted like complete retards, they wouldn't listen, they would do their own thing. At school, the kids were more well behaved. They would actually raise their hands or ask permission before yelling incoherent garbage. Around friends, they seemed cooperative and understood how to negotiate and role play. There was absolutely nothing wrong with these children. They acted like retards around their parents because it helped them get what they want. In simple terms, the kids were outsmarting their parents.


About a year ago I remember hearing something that I thought was a very interesting idea. I overheard an electrician say that he bought a cell phone for his daughter just so he could take it away when she did bad things. That sounds like a kick ass plan, but he might have stolen the idea from Robocop 2. In the movie Robocop 2, the evil robot is a drug addict named Cain and a lady gets him to kill a bunch of people by offering him a drug called Nuke. The idea is that addicts will listen when there is a risk of losing whatever they are addicted to. Maybe this electrician's daughter would kill a bunch of people to get her cell phone back

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I guess I have to chime in as being a member of the "no kids, not ever" club as well. I actually love kids quite a bit, but decided long ago that I didn't want to have any for a variety of reasons. My wife feels the same way.

 

[ShawnD1]

North of Syracuse, NY. The house was $117k. The car was a new mid level Outback. We drive 30k annually, so I want new cars that are reliable.

It's nice that your mortgage is as aggressive as possible. When people are doing shitty, they often take 30 year mortgages and still struggle.

A car being old doesn't mean it's unreliable. It usually just means it needs a bit more love. My first car was 13 years old, so I had to replace things. The car wasn't broken and it never left me stranded, but everything wears out eventually. As long as you replace them when it's time, you'll never have a problem. Overall I think I had to replace the brakes, the transmission fluid, tires, recharge the AC, replace a headlight, etc. It's stuff that will wear out on all cars, including your Outback. There's lots of money to be saved if you're willing to replace things. Think of it like replacing a video card vs buying a whole new Alienware computer - a little effort saves a lot of money.

 

[chin311]

they need to make no children restaruants.

worst thing is trying to have a nice dinner and getting stuck next to some booth full of toddler short bus rejects. yes please reach over into the other booths and drool and stare at me.

 

[Woosta]

When you have a kid, someone should be staying home with it.

"it" ?

 

[waggy]

Why is your car so expensive? It sounds like you bought a fully loaded Honda Accord with the V6 and nav package or something like that. Nice used cars can be had for $2000.
edit: I should add that my parents drove the same car for 20 years. They purchased a second car from my uncle for about $2000, which is actually above the blue book value but they know the history of the car and how well it was maintained.

Your groceries are expensive. In my family of 4, groceries were always about $400 per month (10 years ago) and that's in Canada. Here, things like milk and cheese are literally twice as expensive as they are in the US, and our money is worth less as well. I see US commercials for shit like a loaf of bread being 25 cents while here it's inflated up the ass and might cost a dollar. Buy cheaper food. Try different no name brands. Sometimes the store brand is really good and sometimes it's shit. No name coke, ketchup, and chocolate ice cream are really good where I shop.

No you can NOT buy a nice car for $2k anymore. We have been looking to buy my wifes sister a car. we started at $1500 and they were death traps. EVERY one was nto safe to drive. at $2k sure they were ok but wouldnt last a year and many were would take hundreds if not a few thousand to keep running. price point i see on buying a car that last more then a year is about $5k.

I don't buy new cars. really they are huge waste of money. buy something a year or two old and you save 20-50% off the price of new. you can also find some with under 20k miles.

for a family of five (a 3 yr old. 7 yr old, 17 yr old and 2 adults) we spend roughly $150 a week. thats with a combination of walmart and aldies. once a month we hit Sams club and get small stuff from the market in town that walmart does not carry.

depending on how full the deep freezer is we order either 1/4th or 1/2 a cow a year. while expensive it last nealry the full year. a 1/2 cow is lot of meat and damn good. the price while upfront is expensive is cheaper in the long run.


my mortage is cheaper (with property tax's and insurance) then renting a 3 bedroom apartment. plus i got property for the kids to play and chickens, goats, whatever the kids want.

 

[waggy]

they need to make no children restaruants.

worst thing is trying to have a nice dinner and getting stuck next to some booth full of toddler short bus rejects. yes please reach over into the other booths and drool and stare at me.

I hate that. my son (3) does nto do that anymore. it took a while but we finally got him to stop. trouble is i see is in public people don't want to raise there voice to the child. a sharp "TURN AROUND AND SIT" does wonders. i get weird looks every now and then but most of the time i get smiles from the older people heh.

part of raising kids is taking them to restaurants (not classy ones unless they are good. im talking family style ones) and teaching them how to behave. its not easy but the rewards of having a good kid are worth it.

 

[Colt45]

"it" ?

it is the standard genderless personal pronoun. Not sure why people get upset when humans are called "it". Sounds better than fucking he/she.

 

[LumbergTech]

I guess I have to chime in as being a member of the "no kids, not ever" club as well. I actually love kids quite a bit, but decided long ago that I didn't want to have any for a variety of reasons. My wife feels the same way.

nothing wrong with that

just remember..someones gotta do it

of course there is no shortage of those willing

 

[JS80]

Huh, did you read it?

Every single point of the article was that parents are more miserable, stressful on a day-to-day basis, only when they look back upon their lives is there any sort of satisfaction to be gained.

lol no shit what good is your life if not for the memories

 

[ichy]

It sounds to me that most respondents of this post are greedy and do not want to give up any of their toys in order to be a responsible parent.

What you are describing is not greed. Greedy people take from others, whereas a decision to be childless hardly does that. IMO neither good parents nor those who choose not to be parents are doing anything wrong, it's people who aren't willing to make the necessary sacrifices to do a good job or who can't support their children but have kids anways who we should all be pissed at.

 

[ichy]

I have very, very deep reservations about having kids so I ought to agree with this article, but I had to roll my eyes at it. Fields like sociology and "behavioral economics" are NOT sciences, and to pretend that any studies they produce are actually meaningful is kind of silly.

Also, I think that people who don't have kids because they want to buy more toys are fools. Stuff is nice to have, but it doesn't make you happy on its own. Having kids means you'll be denied a huge number of experiences though (I love to travel, see the world, have adventures) and IMO losing those opportunities is the biggest drawback to reproducing.

 

[Wag]

Yes, but without kids who'd make me a sammich?

 

[waggy]

Yes, but without kids who'd make me a sammich?

you got it all wrong. the wife is to be makeing you a sammich. the kids are to mow the yard and change the channel (well before remotes were invented)

 

[Wyndru]

The wife and I just had our first almost 2 weeks ago, and so far we love it. We have the attitude that when we are old, we want to have family around, our siblings are all older, so we don't want to be elderly and have no immediate family around. We are planning on having a 2nd in a couple of years.

IMO, the only thing that is going to be negative about raising a child is daycare. At over $1k/month for 1 child, it is such a ripoff. I won't mind paying for college, since they will be getting something out of it, but daycare costs suck. I also hate the fact that even if the kid isn't there, or if the daycare center is closed for some reason (holiday), you still have to pay. If I was making less money, I would just quit my job and save the daycare money (especially when we have 2 kids in daycare), but it isn't worth it now.

 

[Homerboy]

My daughter's my best friend. She's been a lot of fun. People get stressed from kids because they're selfish. women especially. When you have a kid, someone should be staying home with it. It doesn't have to be the woman, but that's the traditional role. Women moving into the work force is the worst thing that's happened to western society.

I agree with this mostly. I won't say "'Women moving into the work force is the worst thing that's happened to western society" was the worst thing... I will say people thinking they need 2 new cars, 2+ vacations a year, a huge TV and entertainment center, brand new everything and 3000sq ft too live is the worst thing to happen. THIS is why households HAVE to have both parents working... THAT is the problem.