Studies show having children sucks, having more children even more so

[waggy]

Have any studies tried to distinguish between families that wanted kids vs ones that had accidental kids? Having a kid at the wrong time would sure fuck everything up. Instead of makin the cash money as an engineer or something, you might be struggling as a night time janitor at Walmart. That would be a huge difference in overall satisfaction in life and the only difference is when the baby happened.

Most of my relatives with kids seem very happy. They're middle class to upper middle class, well established in their careers, and kids came late in the game. I don't think I really know anyone who has accidental kids.

My personal experiences might be a cultural thing. I'm just going by quick google results so the years are a bit old. In Canada in 2003, the average age for a first child was 28 years (link). Most births in Canada are to women over the age of 30. Overall fertility rate in Canada is 1.6 per woman. In the US where the OP's article was written, things are radically different. Teen pregnancy rate in the US is consistently about twice as high as Canada link. USA's fertility rate of 2.1 is about 31% higher than Canada; I'll guess many of these are accidental. Healthcare in the US is not free, so your kids doing stupid shit can easily bankrupt the family if you don't have good insurance.

i think this has a lot to do with it. Those that have kids and are happy do tend to be the ones who planned on it and were ready.

i had my first child at around 28 and i felt i was still to young.

I have seen people have kids at 20 and they just never seemed to be able to enjoy life as often.

i wonder what the age breakdown is of parents that lose the kids to foster care?

 

[pcgeek11]

Well I have to weigh in on this. I am 55 years old Married for 27 years to the same woman and my son is now 27 ( Hmmm ). Anyway, I enjoyed having a child (1) and sure there were times when I would have traded him for a broken screwdriver. All in all it was fun fishing, playing baseball swimming on and on.... I wouldn't trade my life for anyone with no children. Just like every other part of your life You get out what you put in and if done correctly you will get much more.

My wife has always been a stay at home mother and wife. Maybe that is the key here as stated by lxskllr.

It sounds to me that most respondents of this post are greedy and do not want to give up any of their toys in order to be a responsible parent. Which seems to be the major cause or problems in general. I think this mostly falls on the fact that women now feel they need to have their own career to be validated as a person. I feel quite the opposite. ( ready for the flame fest ). Women should be at home doing what they are supposed to do, making a home and taking care of the children while dear old dad busts his ass making a living. I am NOT a male pig and I do help around the house, washing dish's, I do my own cloths, assist with grocery shopping etc. I do not expect my wife to work in the yard or house maintenance, but she is welcome if she desires.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just stating the facts in my experiences as a parent.

 

[waggy]

Well I have to weigh in on this. I am 55 years old Married for 27 years to the same woman and my son is now 27 ( Hmmm ). Anyway, I enjoyed having a child (1) and sure there were times when I would have traded him for a broken screwdriver. All in all it was fun fishing, playing baseball swimming on and on.... I wouldn't trade my life for anyone with no children. Just like every other part of your life You get out what you put in and if done correctly you will get much more.

My wife has always been a stay at home mother and wife. Maybe that is the key here as stated by lxskllr.

It sounds to me that most respondents of this post are greedy and do not want to give up any of their toys in order to be a responsible parent. Which seems to be the major cause or problems in general. I think this mostly falls on the fact that women now feel they need to have their own career to be validated as a person. I feel quite the opposite. ( ready for the flame fest ). Women should be at home doing what they are supposed to do, making a home and taking care of the children while dear old dad busts his ass making a living. I am NOT a male pig and I do help around the house, washing dish's, I do my own cloths, assist with grocery shopping etc. I do not expect my wife to work in the yard or house maintenance, but she is welcome if she desires.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just stating the facts in my experiences as a parent.

I agree and disagree.

Yes i feel that 1 parent should be home. but in this day and age many more men are the ones staying home.

I am t he stay at home parent (mainly due to health issues). My wife tried to stay home but she does not have the patience or temper for it. She does far better at work then home. where i seem to be damn good at it.

but i fully agree what you put into it is what you get out of it. We work hard on being good parents and roll models.

 

[Jumpem]

My daughter's my best friend. She's been a lot of fun. People get stressed from kids because they're selfish. women especially. When you have a kid, someone should be staying home with it. It doesn't have to be the woman, but that's the traditional role. Women moving into the work force is the worst thing that's happened to western society.

And how do you propose people pay the bills on one income?

We have a cheap house, a single car, and don't go out constantly or buy lavish things. On just my income we woukd not be able to pay the bills. Let alone save anythig.

Also, with two people working you have much more financial stability. If one person loses their job you still have another income coming in.

 

[lxskllr]

And how do you propose people pay the bills on one income?

We have a cheap house, a single car, and don't go out constantly or buy lavish things. On just my income we woukd not be able to pay the bills. Let alone save anythig.

It never should have started in the first place. Women going into the work force full time doubled the amount of people competing for jobs. Simple economics says that an abundance of anything reduces it's value. There's twice as many people working for half as much money. In modern times, there's workarounds that while not ideal, are better than abandoning your kid for half the day. A job at WaWa might not have prestige, but when you deduct daycare expenses, and factor in flexible hours it can be an apealing option.

 

[Jumpem]

It never should have started in the first place. Women going into the work force full time doubled the amount of people competing for jobs. Simple economics says that an abundance of anything reduces it's value. There's twice as many people working for half as much money. In modern times, there's workarounds that while not ideal, are better than abandoning your kid for half the day. A job at WaWa might not have prestige, but when you deduct daycare expenses, and factor in flexible hours it can be an apealing option.

Not really. My wife makes several times what day care costs. We would still be left with $1700 less after day care if she stayed home. Why would you get a $7/hr job when you make $25/hr now. Also, if she were to leave the workforce it may be harder for her to find a job in her profession again when the kids are older.

 

[lxskllr]

Not really. My wife makes several times what day care costs. We would still be left with $1700 less after day care if she stayed home. Why would you get a $7/hr job when you make $25/hr now. Also, if she were to leave the workforce it may be harder for her to find a job in her profession again when the kids are older.

Again, it comes back to people doing what they want to do, and not the right thing to do. The right thing is to have a parent home with the child. It doesn't have to be the woman, but that's the traditional role. More, more, more isn't sustainable as an economic system, and it's outright broken as a home management system. Everybody wants to point fingers about what's wrong with society, but they're only targeting scapegoats. All one has to do is look in the nearest mirror to see what's wrong with society, and for the reason a lot of kids are shite these days.

 

[MJinZ]

I'm not referring to toys or manisons.

Just a simple 1500sq.ft. house, one car to be shared, and enough left to pay the bills and save a bit. It takes two people working just to live a modest comfortable life these days.

Hahaha BS.

 

[Jumpem]

Hahaha BS.

My monthly bills are $4700. Most people don't make that much, so two people have to work.

 

[MJinZ]

My monthly bills are $4700. Most people don't make that much, so two people have to work.

YOUR monthly bills or your monthly bill and your wife's monthly bill together?

LOL.

 

[Jumpem]

YOUR monthly bills or your monthly bill and your wife's monthly bill together?

LOL.

Yes.

Mortgage: $1291
Student Loans: $679
Phone, cell, cable, internet, electric, propane: $529
Car: $534
Auto, life, disability insurance: $198
Groceries: $400
Gas: $240
Day care: $866

 

[MJinZ]

http://nymag.com/news/features/67024/



Although..



:awe: I don't think a parent would/could ever admit that their flesh & blood makes them depressed, but certainly the statistics suggest otherwise.

Did you even read the article?

The Article concluded... as was obvious... that parents were happier than non-parents.

Which is like the ultimate obviousness of life, considering just about everything revolves around fucking and reproduction in society.

 

[mizzou]

Yes.

Mortgage: $1291
Student Loans: $679
Phone, cell, cable, internet, electric, propane: $529
Car: $534
Auto, life, disability insurance: $198
Groceries: $400
Gas: $240
Day care: $866

cancel out day care, car loans, and student loans, you could be living like a king

that's what my wife and I have done

 

[ShawnD1]

It never should have started in the first place. Women going into the work force full time doubled the amount of people competing for jobs.

This is a common economics fallacy. When the population grows, the economy grows to create more jobs. More people working makes productivity and wealth go way up.

We have a cheap house, a single car, and don't go out constantly or buy lavish things. On just my income we woukd not be able to pay the bills. Let alone save anythig.

Nobody expects you to save anything, but you should at least be able to get by on 1 income. How much money do you make?

Another thing is that you're expected to learn more tasks when one person stays home. You should know how to fix your own car. Know how to change all the fluids, replace the brakes, replace filters, etc. You should also have a rough idea of how to do basic electrical work, plumbing, drywalling, framing, etc. My parents build their own garage and poured their own concrete when making a driveway. They did a pretty good job too since the garage and driveway are still rock solid after 30 years. My mom is very good at sewing and she still makes her own clothes. She made most of our baby clothes as well; babies don't care what they look like. We would buy a lot of stuff at Value Village because a lot of second hand clothes are mint condition; people donate it when they get too fat to wear it.

I'm surprised how well one of my friends is doing since he had a kid when he was about 20. His wife stays at home, they stay social by going to church, he's energetic enough to work and enjoy family life because he convinced a doctor to write him a prescription for dexedrine (amphetamine), they buy bulk meat from a butcher for cheap, they use computers that were donated from family members, he put his chemistry degree to work by building a fractional distiller and using it to make his own alcohol made from rice, the family does not own a car or a television, and lots of their stuff is from the dollar store.

 

[Jumpem]

cancel out day care, car loans, and student loans, you could be living like a king

that's what my wife and I have done

The student loans are a necessary evil. Hopefully they will be gone in a few years. The car loan is a necessity. We drive 30k miles annually, so I don't trust cheap used cars to be reliable.

As for the day care it's either:
1. Pay for day care, but get my wife's salary: -$866 + $2780 = $1914 left.
2. Cancel day care, but lose my wife's salary: $866 left.

 

[MJinZ]

Yes.

Mortgage: $1291
Student Loans: $679
Phone, cell, cable, internet, electric, propane: $529
Car: $534
Auto, life, disability insurance: $198
Groceries: $400
Gas: $240
Day care: $866

Who are you blaming for having a baby when you still have student loans? For owning a house when you could renting for 1/2? For paying $534 a month for ONE car (wtf? lolz). Phone should be like $60 for both of you, internet should be like $40. Do you need cable? No, there's free shit and Hulu. Electric and propane gonna cost your $400? LOL.

Oh wait, your own entitled financially irresponsible ass. Thank you and the other 20 million of you for our economy.

Let me guess, your $534/month is a Mercedes E Class or BMW M3 right? Ahahaha...

 

[Jumpem]

This is a common economics fallacy. When the population grows, the economy grows to create more jobs. More people working makes productivity and wealth go way up.



Nobody expects you to save anything, but you should at least be able to get by on 1 income. How much money do you make?

Another thing is that you're expected to learn more tasks when one person stays home. You should know how to fix your own car. Know how to change all the fluids, replace the brakes, replace filters, etc. You should also have a rough idea of how to do basic electrical work, plumbing, drywalling, framing, etc. My parents build their own garage and poured their own concrete when making a driveway. They did a pretty good job too since the garage and driveway are still rock solid after 30 years. My mom is very good at sewing and she still makes her own clothes. She made most of our baby clothes as well; babies don't care what they look like. We would buy a lot of stuff at Value Village because a lot of second hand clothes are mint condition; people donate it when they get too fat to wear it.

I'm surprised how well one of my friends is doing since he had a kid when he was about 20. His wife stays at home, they stay social by going to church, he's energetic enough to work and enjoy family life because he convinced a doctor to write him a prescription for dexedrine (amphetamine), they buy bulk meat from a butcher for cheap, they use computers that were donated from family members, he put his chemistry degree to work by building a fractional distiller and using it to make his own alcohol made from rice, the family does not own a car or a television, and lots of their stuff is from the dollar store.

I make $74k. I would maybe able to just barely pay the bills alone. No eating out, no shopping, no saving.

As for the rest, I am not mechanically inclined.

 

[Jumpem]

Who are you blaming for having a baby when you still have student loans? For owning a house when you could renting for 1/2? For paying $534 a month for ONE car (wtf? lolz). Phone should be like $60 for both of you, internet should be like $40. Do you need cable? No, there's free shit and Hulu. Electric and propane gonna cost your $400? LOL.

Oh wait, your own entitled financially irresponsible ass. Thank you and the other 20 million of you for our economy.

Let me guess, your $534/month is a Mercedes E Class or BMW M3 right? Ahahaha...

Who waits until they are in their late thirties when the student loans are gone to have kids? I'd rather be young enough to play with them.

The mortgage is only a couple hundred dollars more than renting was.

And $534 isn't alot for a new car that isn't an econobox these days. All it is, is a plain four cylinder Outback with a warranty. We make up for it by only having the one car, and commuting together. Go look up what a loan is for a $27k car. A loan for the cars you pointed out would be closer to $1k per month.

the phone is $34 for Vonage, and $102 for the cell phones (with three people on a family plan and a 20% corporate discount). The electric averages $85 and the propane $115. Do you even own a house, or do you live with mom and dad still?

And how am I financially irresponsible? We put 10% into our 401ks, save another 13% of net, have our bases with disability and life insurance covered. You are calling me irresponsible simply because my wife works?

 

[MJinZ]

Who waits until they are in their late thirties when the student loans are gone to have kids? I'd rather be young enough to play with them.

The mortgage is only a couple hundred dollars more than renting was.

And $534 isn't alot for a new car that isn't an econobox these days. All it is, is a plain four cylinder Outback with a warranty. We make up for it by only having the one car, and commuting together.

Late thirties? You should be able to pay back your student loan in less than 5 years. That's 5x $40K = $200K.

Did it take you 6 years to graduate college?

 

[Jumpem]

Late thirties? You should be able to pay back your student loan in less than 5 years. That's 5x $40K = $200K.

Did it take you 6 years to graduate college?

I took about that long yes. I stopped going to public school in sixth grade, so I had to catch up a little my first two years. We also had to do a mandatory year of co-op. The standard terms for my student loans to be paid back are 10 years for the federal, and 15 for the private ones. we will have them paid off before then though. About when I am 35. So, yes the wife would have expected to have kids before we are 35 and 31.

 

[MJinZ]

Who waits until they are in their late thirties when the student loans are gone to have kids? I'd rather be young enough to play with them.

The mortgage is only a couple hundred dollars more than renting was.

And $534 isn't alot for a new car that isn't an econobox these days. All it is, is a plain four cylinder Outback with a warranty. We make up for it by only having the one car, and commuting together. Go look up what a loan is for a $27k car. A loan for the cars you pointed out would be closer to $1k per month.

the phone is $34 for Vonage, and $102 for the cell phones (with three people on a family plan and a 20% corporate discount). The electric averages $85 and the propane $115. Do you even own a house, or do you live with mom and dad still?

And how am I financially irresponsible? We put 10% into our 401ks, save another 13% of net, have our bases with disability and life insurance covered. You are calling me irresponsible simply because my wife works?

You're living MONTH TO MONTH on paycheck.

Get your head out of your ass and evaluate just WTF that means for financial responsibility.

If I had any say to the welfare ghetto dwellers - if you can't feed them, don't breed them. I don't care how old or unfair that is. That doesn't stop applying to you just because you actually have a job.

 

[Syringer]

Did you even read the article?

The Article concluded... as was obvious... that parents were happier than non-parents.

Which is like the ultimate obviousness of life, considering just about everything revolves around fucking and reproduction in society.

Huh, did you read it?

Every single point of the article was that parents are more miserable, stressful on a day-to-day basis, only when they look back upon their lives is there any sort of satisfaction to be gained.

 

[Jumpem]

You're living MONTH TO MONTH on paycheck.

How am I living paycheck to paycheck? Just because my expenses are higher than yours? Between the 401k and my savings account I am saving over $2k each month.

 

[Syringer]

There'll probably be another survey soon that says parents are happier than anyone else. And both surveys will be right.

It wasn't based on a single study, it's an article that discusses why every study ever done on parents show that they're more miserable.

 

[MJinZ]

How am I living paycheck to paycheck? Just because my expenses are higher than yours? Between the 401k and my savings account I am saving over $2k each month.

Alright, I skimmed " On just my income we woukd not be able to pay the bills. Let alone save anythig. " and got the impression that it took both of your incomes to pay your bills.

Anyway, if you are saving $2k a month, then why are you complaining?