Student Loan Forgiveness is Set to Expire: This is Going to be Painful for Many!

[fskimospy]

There is a conservatives answer to the problem! A soundbite that sounds like it would work, as long as you don't think about it for more than a few seconds!
Oh, wait. Most universities are non-profit. So, if you stop dumping billions into them they just have to offer less education, not lower prices.

I think the idea that universities are nonprofit is kind of ridiculous. So Harvard of the $50 billion endowment is nonprofit? I guess.

What advise do you think councilors are giving? And how does this jive with the standard answer that all conservatives give when asked how to help the poor, get a higher education?


So, you must declare your major before you start university? What if you change it mid-term? What if you get more then one degree, or are we limiting degrees to one per person?

I think @Greenman is right in a sense here - I think we should eliminate student loans entirely to take this stupid money out of the system. We should instead restore previous funding cuts to state universities. If people want to pay $50,000 a year to go to NYU they can fund that themselves. I think once you do that places like NYU will suddenly discover they can in fact provide an education for a lot less than that. Well either that or go bankrupt, which in NYU's case is just as good. (I say this as an NYU alum)

 

[K1052]

I think the idea that universities are nonprofit is kind of ridiculous. So Harvard of the $50 billion endowment is nonprofit? I guess.

Ivy League schools: "We are nonprofit".

 

[nOOky]

So if I understand this correctly, if you've paid off your loans say two years ago you are screwed?

 

[Jaskalas]

Republican governors tell Biden to shove it. I think Biden should listen and not offer the forgiveness to anyone in those 20 states. Of course as soon as they move to a non-backasswards state they would get it. Let the brain drain continue.

All that will happen in a "brain drain" is consolidating even more political power in the hands of right wing zealots. This is not the answer.

More pigs in the pig pen.
Not sure there's a means of avoiding that outcome in the first place. To warn of it is one thing, but to prevent it?
Theirs is a politics where fundamentalism trumps science, logic, facts. Truths are untruths. That's going to result in corruption, strife, and a brain drain.

The original question... make them taste the fruits of their own policy and drive good people away from them. There are benefits and negatives to that end. How are we to determine if the outcome is ultimately positive or negative?

 

[Homerboy]

Ivy League schools: "We are nonprofit".

View attachment 69425

To be fair, I don't give a shit what private schools do. THe fundamental change needs to take place at "Gov't run State Schools"
If their pricing comes back to reality, where a life time interest incurring debt is not saddled on the customers, then the private schools will have to come into check on their own too.

 

[fskimospy]

To be fair, I don't give a shit what private schools do. THe fundamental change needs to take place at "Gov't run State Schools"
If their pricing comes back to reality, where a life time interest incurring debt is not saddled on the customers, then the private schools will have to come into check on their own too.

It's almost 10 years old at this point but to the best of my knowledge the overall trends are the same. Basically, tuition inflation in private/research universities is driven by them spending and charging ever more each year. Tuition inflation for state non-r universities is driven by budget cuts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/08/26/introducing-the-tuition-is-too-damn-high/

 

[Homerboy]

It's almost 10 years old at this point but to the best of my knowledge the overall trends are the same. Basically, tuition inflation in private/research universities is driven by them spending and charging ever more each year. Tuition inflation for state non-r universities is driven by budget cuts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/08/26/introducing-the-tuition-is-too-damn-high/

Right - like I said, I don't care what private schools do. That's up to them to decide what they are able to get away with charging and still draw the students (customers) that they need to maintain their profits etc.

State schools need to get better budgets and spend more wisely. I'm sure that's over simplifying it, but there's no reason in the world why a mediocre in-state school should cost $10K/year (this is what my son is being charged). The $10K wouldn't even be so daunting if the gov't loans didn't have a ridiculous interest rate attached to them. The gov't just shouldn't be making money off the student's backs. They should all be subsidized or they should all be VERY low interest rate. (it could, in essence, just match COL increase from year to year... but obviously that would sting quite a bit for this last year).

And to be even more fair, and to sound REALLY old, EVERYTHING is freaking expensive as hell nowadays. Sustaining previous ways of living is just not possible.

 

[fskimospy]

Right - like I said, I don't care what private schools do. That's up to them to decide what they are able to get away with charging and still draw the students (customers) that they need to maintain their profits etc.

State schools need to get better budgets and spend more wisely. I'm sure that's over simplifying it, but there's no reason in the world why a mediocre in-state school should cost $10K/year (this is what my son is being charged). The $10K wouldn't even be so daunting if the gov't loans didn't have a ridiculous interest rate attached to them. The gov't just shouldn't be making money off the student's backs. They should all be subsidized or they should all be VERY low interest rate. (it could, in essence, just match COL increase from year to year... but obviously that would sting quite a bit for this last year).

And to be even more fair, and to sound REALLY old, EVERYTHING is freaking expensive as hell nowadays. Sustaining previous ways of living is just not possible.

While I'm sure there are places state schools could spend more wisely at least as of last time I checked their per-student spending has been flat for a long time. The tuition increases have come almost exclusively from decreased funding by the government.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I think we should eliminate student loans entirely to take this stupid money out of the system.

The tuition increases have come almost exclusively from decreased funding by the government.

Is it then your proposal that we cut student loans out completely and just hope that state governments decide to fund the universities instead?

 

[fskimospy]

Is it then your proposal that we cut student loans out completely and just hope that state governments decide to fund the universities instead?

There are lots of ways to fund them but yes student loans 100% have to go. They were a mistake from the start.

 

[SMOGZINN]

There are lots of ways to fund them but yes student loans 100% have to go. They were a mistake from the start.

Seems a bit cruel to say to kids 'if you want to better yourself get a higher education' and at the same time say 'if you wanted a higher education you should have had rich parents.'

 

[fskimospy]

Seems a bit cruel to say to kids 'if you want to better yourself get a higher education' and at the same time say 'if you wanted a higher education you should have had rich parents.'

That’s why you fund state schools. Really, they should go back to being tuition free. I think the appropriate stance is that anyone can go to a state school if they can get in. If you have rich parents that can pay for some fancy private school that’s fine, but the government isn’t giving you money for it.

 

[Brainonska511]

I think the idea that universities are nonprofit is kind of ridiculous. So Harvard of the $50 billion endowment is nonprofit? I guess.

Harvard is a hedge fund landlord with a school attached.

 

[Brainonska511]

That’s why you fund state schools. Really, they should go back to being tuition free. I think the appropriate stance is that anyone can go to a state school if they can get in. If you have rich parents that can pay for some fancy private school that’s fine, but the government isn’t giving you money for it.

State schools are also so large that they could easily put pressure on private universities if they can enroll more at low costs. The private schools would really need to work more on their value proposition or their tuition.

 

[Captante]

Ivy League schools: "We are nonprofit".

View attachment 69425

As a resident of New Haven CT I can personally attest that Yale is NOT exactly starved for cash!

"Non-profit" hmmm ..... that's just absurd.

 

[Greenman]

So if I understand this correctly, if you've paid off your loans say two years ago you are screwed?

Not screwed, just not getting on the gravy train.
You did the right thing, worked hard, paid your bills, now Joe is giving you the finger.

 

[Greenman]

Simply provide way fewer people with education is certainly one way to go.

If that education had value they would be able to pay back their loans.
Borrowing for an education can be a very wise investment, but like any investment you have to look at the return you get on your money. If your degree combined with your other abilities won't net you enough money to repay the loan, you've made a poor investment. The fundamental issue seems to be the belief that any degree is a ticket to success. There is a fair bit of evidence that this isn't always the case.

 

[sactoking]

I mean the fundamental issue seems to be the belief that any degree should only be measured on direct economic benefit to the recipient. Totally ignores any benefits to society or any other measure.

 

[brycejones]

Not screwed, just not getting on the gravy train.
You did the right thing, worked hard, paid your bills, now Joe is giving you the finger.

If that education had value they would be able to pay back their loans.
Borrowing for an education can be a very wise investment, but like any investment you have to look at the return you get on your money. If your degree combined with your other abilities won't net you enough money to repay the loan, you've made a poor investment. The fundamental issue seems to be the belief that any degree is a ticket to success. There is a fair bit of evidence that this isn't always the case.

Ok boomer

 

[K1052]

If that education had value they would be able to pay back their loans.
Borrowing for an education can be a very wise investment, but like any investment you have to look at the return you get on your money. If your degree combined with your other abilities won't net you enough money to repay the loan, you've made a poor investment. The fundamental issue seems to be the belief that any degree is a ticket to success. There is a fair bit of evidence that this isn't always the case.

Expected salary is probably not the only way we should be looking at this. A bunch of vital professions aren't really that lucrative.

 

[DaaQ]

If that education had value they would be able to pay back their loans.
Borrowing for an education can be a very wise investment, but like any investment you have to look at the return you get on your money. If your degree combined with your other abilities won't net you enough money to repay the loan, you've made a poor investment. The fundamental issue seems to be the belief that any degree is a ticket to success. There is a fair bit of evidence that this isn't always the case.

Did you know what was and was not going to provide you economic value for your tuition costs when you were 18 years old?
At 18 years old, you knew what was going to be the good investment vs the bad investment?

 

[Zor Prime]

Did you know what was and was not going to provide you economic value for your tuition costs when you were 18 years old?
At 18 years old, you knew what was going to be the good investment vs the bad investment?

Well, these days someone can Google that question. Probably have the answer in under 5 minutes!

I always knew computer shit was the future. That's the way I went. I knew the answer to this question way, way before I was 18.

Naturally not everyone wants to do IT. One of my kids, for fucks sake, has taken it upon themselves to get a music degree. Ugh. Let's hope they get on with an orchestra... and if not, be a music teacher I suppose.

 

[Greenman]

Did you know what was and was not going to provide you economic value for your tuition costs when you were 18 years old?
At 18 years old, you knew what was going to be the good investment vs the bad investment?

No I didn't, but I knew who to ask. I ended up not going to school, I bought a backhoe and started my own business.
My daughter wanted to do the full boat university experience at $30k per year, I showed her how to do it for a lot less. She walked out of UC Davis with her degree and $15k in debt, with very little help from me.

 

[DaaQ]

Well, these days someone can Google that question. Probably have the answer in under 5 minutes!

I always knew computer shit was the future. That's the way I went. I knew the answer to this question way, way before I was 18.

Naturally not everyone wants to do IT. One of my kids, for fucks sake, has taken it upon themselves to get a music degree. Ugh. Let's hope they get on with an orchestra... and if not, be a music teacher I suppose.

Well this was specifically for Greenman reflecting back into the 80s or 90s, assuming he is about my age.

My son got a BA in language, but so far has not been able to capitalize on it. Went to Spain to try and teach there and things didn't pan out. Remember this is post Covid.

He is now in FL with my mother, hopefully he can find something there teaching Spanish to non English speakers, instead of English to Spanish speakers.

I wanted him to go into translation for a Corp, but I am not the one making his decisions.

 

[TheVrolok]

So if I understand this correctly, if you've paid off your loans say two years ago you are screwed?

Why would you be screwed?

Why would things improving over time that may have benefited you, but now benefit other people, screw you?

I think this approach to the student loan problem is short sighted, we can argue about effects on inflation, government spending, etc but this "I didn't get it so I'm angry!" (I guess it's pretty similar to FYGM, FY(I didn't)GM?)