student expelled for counterstrike map that resembled school

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Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: TXHokie
Let's see here -
Asian
Play CS:S (likes to run around gun akimbo)
Own a hammer
You've just been profiled!

OMG, A HAMMER!?!?!?!? TERRORIST! :D

HAHAHA, who doesn't have a hammer?!

Are you saying you have a hammer? I think i'm going to have to report you to the FBI... sorry dude, you're going to GITMO :(
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Expelled? Yes

In this day in age, you just can't do that sort of thing. How stupid is the kid?

I'm sure the kid would never do something to his school, but we CAN'T take that chance.

The same people that say the school overreacted would cry foul if the kid did shoot-up the school and the school didnt do anything after finding out about his cs map.

Stupid, stupid kid.

Please tell me where he broke any school rule or any law? What grounds was he expelled on? Is that where our society is going? We can be arrested for playing video games that older people do not agree with?

I'm 23 and use to play cs alot.
He wasn't arrested he was expelled.

A school should have the right to expell students that cross the line. Are you going to tell me with Columbine, VT, and other school shootings that this kid shouldn't be punished for making a FPS map about his school.

Like I said before, I'm sure the kid is fine but we cannot allow such stupid acts.

School shootings don't have anything to do with video games. There is no connection.

So tell me how the kid made a "stupid act"? Is it because you have some magical proof that video games breeds violence, or is it a stupid act simply because it upset some overly sensitive people.

I NEVER said video games breeds violence, I even stated that I use to play cs alot.

Stupid act: in light of 32 people being murdered at VT and in the back drop of other school shootings, making a FPS map designed aroung your school.

I'll say this for the last time: the kid most likely had NO ill intent but he should have been smart enough not to do something like this.

Why do schools evacute when there's a bomb threat? I've never heard of a bomb threat, in US schools, actually being carried out in my lifetime--but I heard about plenty of school shootings. They evacuate and search for the "bomb" because of the potential consequences if they don't. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY.

Yes sometimes people need to be made an example of; he was.

So being imaginative, creative, and cleaver should be expellable offenses because of some nutball? Sorry but this wasn't a threat... it was a semitalented high schooler making a map for a video game in the pretend world.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Expelled? Yes

In this day in age, you just can't do that sort of thing. How stupid is the kid?

I'm sure the kid would never do something to his school, but we CAN'T take that chance.

The same people that say the school overreacted would cry foul if the kid did shoot-up the school and the school didnt do anything after finding out about his cs map.

Stupid, stupid kid.

Please tell me where he broke any school rule or any law? What grounds was he expelled on? Is that where our society is going? We can be arrested for playing video games that older people do not agree with?

I'm 23 and use to play cs alot.
He wasn't arrested he was expelled.

A school should have the right to expell students that cross the line. Are you going to tell me with Columbine, VT, and other school shootings that this kid shouldn't be punished for making a FPS map about his school.

Like I said before, I'm sure the kid is fine but we cannot allow such stupid acts.

School shootings don't have anything to do with video games. There is no connection.

So tell me how the kid made a "stupid act"? Is it because you have some magical proof that video games breeds violence, or is it a stupid act simply because it upset some overly sensitive people.

I NEVER said video games breeds violence, I even stated that I use to play cs alot.

Stupid act: in light of 32 people being murdered at VT and in the back drop of other school shootings, making a FPS map designed aroung your school.

I'll say this for the last time: the kid most likely had NO ill intent but he should have been smart enough not to do something like this.

Why do schools evacute when there's a bomb threat? I've never heard of a bomb threat, in US schools, actually being carried out in my lifetime--but I heard about plenty of school shootings. They evacuate and search for the "bomb" because of the potential consequences if they don't. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY.

Yes sometimes people need to be made an example of; he was.

Except that the poor kid made the friggin map before VT happened.

This whole thing is asinine.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
7,098
0
76
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: TXHokie
Let's see here -
Asian
Play CS:S (likes to run around gun akimbo)
Own a hammer
You've just been profiled!

OMG, A HAMMER!?!?!?!? TERRORIST! :D

HAHAHA, who doesn't have a hammer?!

Actually wasn't the VT shooter waving a hammer around in one of the pics he sent NBC?

Oh teh noes!!!11
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Expelled? Yes

In this day in age, you just can't do that sort of thing. How stupid is the kid?

I'm sure the kid would never do something to his school, but we CAN'T take that chance.

The same people that say the school overreacted would cry foul if the kid did shoot-up the school and the school didnt do anything after finding out about his cs map.

Stupid, stupid kid.

Please tell me where he broke any school rule or any law? What grounds was he expelled on? Is that where our society is going? We can be arrested for playing video games that older people do not agree with?

I'm 23 and use to play cs alot.
He wasn't arrested he was expelled.

A school should have the right to expell students that cross the line. Are you going to tell me with Columbine, VT, and other school shootings that this kid shouldn't be punished for making a FPS map about his school.

Like I said before, I'm sure the kid is fine but we cannot allow such stupid acts.

So instead we should just react emotionally? That's a load of crap. Yes, I am going to tell you that kids shouldn't be punished for making FPS maps about their schools. On their own time, outside of school.

When I was in HS, they would interview and investigate before knee-jerking some kid out. Any sort of investigation would likely have shown the kid to be well adjusted...which would not have held true for either the VT or Columbine shooters. Excersizing unfounded caution at the expense of a kid's education is not a good option...especially when the reaction is something that will go on his school record, possibly affecting his ability to get in his college of choice.
 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
0
0
Originally posted by: BigJelly
I NEVER said video games breeds violence, I even stated that I use to play cs alot.

Stupid act: in light of 32 people being murdered at VT and in the back drop of other school shootings, making a FPS map designed aroung your school.

The kid did this before the VT incident. Someone just happened to come across it afterwards. Even so, it's quite a leap from creating a video game map to committing a school shooting.

I'll say this for the last time: the kid most likely had NO ill intent but he should have been smart enough not to do something like this.

What is he not supposed to do? Anything that might be misinterpreted as suggesting he could potentially commit a violent act? That covers a LOT of ground, and gets into all sorts of thorny First Amendment issues.

Why do schools evacute when there's a bomb threat? I've never heard of a bomb threat, in US schools, actually being carried out in my lifetime--but I heard about plenty of school shootings. They evacuate and search for the "bomb" because of the potential consequences if they don't. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY.

It's irresponsible to ignore a direct and immediate threat. But where do you draw the line? Should even thinking or talking about violence be grounds for punishment? Should you expel everyone who listens to punk rock or death metal or plays CS:S?
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Originally posted by: Matthias99

It's irresponsible to ignore a direct and immediate threat. But where do you draw the line? Should even thinking or talking about violence be grounds for punishment? Should you expel everyone who listens to punk rock or death metal or plays CS:S?

my feelings exactly.
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Originally posted by: Matthias99

It's irresponsible to ignore a direct and immediate threat. But where do you draw the line? Should even thinking or talking about violence be grounds for punishment? Should you expel everyone who listens to punk rock or death metal or plays CS:S?

my feelings exactly.

if you are talking about committing violence at school you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. if you start making maps of your school in CS you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. if you start writing stories about killing everyone at your school in english class you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. welcome to 2007, we're long past the days when you could do stuff like this and get away with it. if you want to be creative, make a map of something else.

do i think he should have been expelled? not without more evidence than just making a map of your school. however, you can't overlook whatever subtle signs there are these days, if you expect school shootings to be stopped before they happen.

video games don't cause violence (imho) or school shootings. but use some common sense, making a map of your school? cmon.

in the grand scheme of things, the kid is a senior, he was moved to an alternative school, he'll still graduate. it's not like he's broken for life, and hopefully he'll learn to think a little more before acting.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,252
403
126
Retarded. I've started maps of my junior high and high schools, though I never finished them. Why? For the fsck of it. It was a familar place I knew and I wanted to make a level.
 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
0
0
Originally posted by: fisher
if you are talking about committing violence at school you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. if you start making maps of your school in CS you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. if you start writing stories about killing everyone at your school in english class you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. welcome to 2007, we're long past the days when you could do stuff like this and get away with it. if you want to be creative, make a map of something else.

do i think he should have been expelled? not without more evidence than just making a map of your school. however, you can't overlook whatever subtle signs there are these days, if you expect school shootings to be stopped before they happen.

video games don't cause violence (imho) or school shootings. but use some common sense, making a map of your school? cmon.

I'm not saying that making light of school shootings is "cute" or "funny" or that the school should have ignored this completely. But unless this kid is stockpiling weapons, writing suicide notes, coming up with detailed plans for attacking his school, etc. -- this reaction is WAY overblown. Like I said -- are you going to expel everyone who plays violent videogames or listens to music that is anti-establishment? At what point does potentially disturbing creative expression/entertainment or 'not fitting in' become a danger to others that's unreasonable to ignore?

Ultimately, if someone truly wants to hurt or kill other people and is really dedicated to doing that, they will probably succeed. Unless you want to start locking people up for 'thought crimes' like giving off "subtle signs" of potential violent tendencies. Remember, Big Brother is watching...
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
2,747
0
71
To everyone saying he should have known better, all I can say is how?

I'm 25, so I'm already done with HS and college. Even today, I would not have thought twice about making a map of my school/office/neighborhood. How was he supposed to know this is an evil thing to do? Because a small vocal segment of society thinks it is?
 

BigJelly

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2002
1,717
0
0
Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
To everyone saying he should have known better, all I can say is how?

I'm 25, so I'm already done with HS and college. Even today, I would not have thought twice about making a map of my school/office/neighborhood. How was he supposed to know this is an evil thing to do? Because a small vocal segment of society thinks it is?

After columbine, I think it's called COMMON SENSE.
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
Originally posted by: Matthias99
Originally posted by: fisher
if you are talking about committing violence at school you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. if you start making maps of your school in CS you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. if you start writing stories about killing everyone at your school in english class you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. welcome to 2007, we're long past the days when you could do stuff like this and get away with it. if you want to be creative, make a map of something else.

do i think he should have been expelled? not without more evidence than just making a map of your school. however, you can't overlook whatever subtle signs there are these days, if you expect school shootings to be stopped before they happen.

video games don't cause violence (imho) or school shootings. but use some common sense, making a map of your school? cmon.

I'm not saying that making light of school shootings is "cute" or "funny" or that the school should have ignored this completely. But unless this kid is stockpiling weapons, writing suicide notes, coming up with detailed plans for attacking his school, etc. -- this reaction is WAY overblown. Like I said -- are you going to expel everyone who plays violent videogames or listens to music that is anti-establishment? At what point does potentially disturbing creative expression/entertainment or 'not fitting in' become a danger to others that's unreasonable to ignore?

Ultimately, if someone truly wants to hurt or kill other people and is really dedicated to doing that, they will probably succeed. Unless you want to start locking people up for 'thought crimes' like giving off "subtle signs" of potential violent tendencies. Remember, Big Brother is watching...

i'm not saying anyone here is calling it cute, but that's the idea. haha look i made a map of the school i'm cool right?!? i was in high school at one point, i know what the mentality is.

playing violent video games or listening to anti-establishment music is not the same as making it real like this. playing de_dust is a bit different from playing a map of your school. once again, want to be creative? make something unique, not just copying your school hallways. how boring is that?

as far as thought crimes, you can think all you want. but when you start doing things that other people can see, it's time to poke a little. if you're going to start displaying the signs, what do you expect to get from that? once again, it's not playing a video game, it's recreating a situation that is very much in the spotlight right now. and once again, it was overblown a bit. check into the situation, then make a decision.

@ MikeyLSU - if you aren't smart enough to figure out that making a map of your school in a FPS is going to bring you attention from the authorities you are the poster child for book smarts without any common sense. my little brother is the same way, made it through high school and college, zero common sense.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
To everyone saying he should have known better, all I can say is how?

I'm 25, so I'm already done with HS and college. Even today, I would not have thought twice about making a map of my school/office/neighborhood. How was he supposed to know this is an evil thing to do? Because a small vocal segment of society thinks it is?

After columbine, I think it's called COMMON SENSE.

No. Just no.

Once again, video games did not cause columbine, nor did the two kids use video games as a training or mapping system.

There is no harm, and no foul in making a video game map of something familiar...

There is no link to maps on video games and mods, when it comes to violence.
 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
0
0
Originally posted by: fisher
i'm not saying anyone here is calling it cute, but that's the idea. haha look i made a map of the school i'm cool right?!? i was in high school at one point, i know what the mentality is.

So what? Being tasteless shouldn't be grounds for expulsion either, at least not if you're doing it on your own time.

playing violent video games or listening to anti-establishment music is not the same as making it real like this. playing de_dust is a bit different from playing a map of your school.

Creating a map in a videogame based on a real location is "making it real"? Sorry, not buying it.

Is making a map that looks like the school better or worse than fantasizing obsessively about killing everyone in the school while you play on de_dust?

as far as thought crimes, you can think all you want. but when you start doing things that other people can see, it's time to poke a little. if you're going to start displaying the signs, what do you expect to get from that? once again, it's not playing a video game, it's recreating a situation that is very much in the spotlight right now. and once again, it was overblown a bit. check into the situation, then make a decision.

They should have checked into it, I agree. But expelling him is clearly a knee-jerk reaction to the VT tragedy.

If you agree with their actions essentially what you're saying is that it's okay to punish people preemptively for anything the authorities think could potentially hint that they are going to become violent.
 

zylander

Platinum Member
Aug 25, 2002
2,501
0
76
OMG, COMPLETELY unjustified. He made a map of a building familiar to him, a place where he has spent the last 4 years of his life. I would love to play a game of CS on a map that resembeled my HS, I see nothing wrong with that, its just a damn video game. At least he still gets his deploma though.
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
2,747
0
71
Originally posted by: fisher
Originally posted by: Matthias99
Originally posted by: fisher
if you are talking about committing violence at school you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. if you start making maps of your school in CS you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. if you start writing stories about killing everyone at your school in english class you should realize that no one finds it cute or funny anymore. welcome to 2007, we're long past the days when you could do stuff like this and get away with it. if you want to be creative, make a map of something else.

do i think he should have been expelled? not without more evidence than just making a map of your school. however, you can't overlook whatever subtle signs there are these days, if you expect school shootings to be stopped before they happen.

video games don't cause violence (imho) or school shootings. but use some common sense, making a map of your school? cmon.

I'm not saying that making light of school shootings is "cute" or "funny" or that the school should have ignored this completely. But unless this kid is stockpiling weapons, writing suicide notes, coming up with detailed plans for attacking his school, etc. -- this reaction is WAY overblown. Like I said -- are you going to expel everyone who plays violent videogames or listens to music that is anti-establishment? At what point does potentially disturbing creative expression/entertainment or 'not fitting in' become a danger to others that's unreasonable to ignore?

Ultimately, if someone truly wants to hurt or kill other people and is really dedicated to doing that, they will probably succeed. Unless you want to start locking people up for 'thought crimes' like giving off "subtle signs" of potential violent tendencies. Remember, Big Brother is watching...

i'm not saying anyone here is calling it cute, but that's the idea. haha look i made a map of the school i'm cool right?!? i was in high school at one point, i know what the mentality is.

playing violent video games or listening to anti-establishment music is not the same as making it real like this. playing de_dust is a bit different from playing a map of your school. once again, want to be creative? make something unique, not just copying your school hallways. how boring is that?

as far as thought crimes, you can think all you want. but when you start doing things that other people can see, it's time to poke a little. if you're going to start displaying the signs, what do you expect to get from that? once again, it's not playing a video game, it's recreating a situation that is very much in the spotlight right now. and once again, it was overblown a bit. check into the situation, then make a decision.

@ MikeyLSU - if you aren't smart enough to figure out that making a map of your school in a FPS is going to bring you attention from the authorities you are the poster child for book smarts without any common sense. my little brother is the same way, made it through high school and college, zero common sense.

LOL, sure...Do you realize this is what he wants his future profession to be? What do artists paint? Most of them practice by painting real things and real settings to get a good effect. Maybe he was practicing making good maps and needed to use something he was familiar with. At that age, being a senior in HS, there is nothing he is more familiar with than his own HS.

To me, it is unbelievable that people think the school was right in its actions. You must be the 1 of only 2 people on this forum with any common sense then, because there are very few people here who think this was a bad thing to do.

What if he made his school in a different game? What about some RTS like Warcraft 3 or something? What about in a Sim game? Where does it end, what makes it a violent dangerous act?
 

Stiganator

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2001
2,489
0
76
He was probably just sick of his friends knowing levels better than him and pwning him. So he made a level that everyone would know equally well.
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
2,747
0
71
also, you realize kids can do drugs, drink alcohol...etc... without getting expelled from school. All of those things are ILLEGAL, this kid does nothing against any law, nothing against any school rule and gets kicked out. Great teaching ethics...Do drugs all you want, but don't you dare be creative in a video game.
 

Mardeth

Platinum Member
Jul 24, 2002
2,608
0
0
Funny thing I thought about the same exact thing when I was is HS. I thought it would fun to replicate...
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Also, what about the people who like to model locations they know for FUN, not even for shooting up? My girly made a big wire frame model of my HS way back. It's great practice, especially when you're there every day, so you can sketch it out, and then move it over to 3d models.

These idiots are suppressing the kids education, he was learning how to model in 3d, as well as making a map for a game.
 

glutenberg

Golden Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,941
0
0
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
To everyone saying he should have known better, all I can say is how?

I'm 25, so I'm already done with HS and college. Even today, I would not have thought twice about making a map of my school/office/neighborhood. How was he supposed to know this is an evil thing to do? Because a small vocal segment of society thinks it is?

After columbine, I think it's called COMMON SENSE.

Did the Columbine kids also make a map of their school for CS?
 

glutenberg

Golden Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,941
0
0
Originally posted by: fisher
i'm not saying anyone here is calling it cute, but that's the idea. haha look i made a map of the school i'm cool right?!? i was in high school at one point, i know what the mentality is.

playing violent video games or listening to anti-establishment music is not the same as making it real like this. playing de_dust is a bit different from playing a map of your school. once again, want to be creative? make something unique, not just copying your school hallways. how boring is that?

as far as thought crimes, you can think all you want. but when you start doing things that other people can see, it's time to poke a little. if you're going to start displaying the signs, what do you expect to get from that? once again, it's not playing a video game, it's recreating a situation that is very much in the spotlight right now. and once again, it was overblown a bit. check into the situation, then make a decision.

@ MikeyLSU - if you aren't smart enough to figure out that making a map of your school in a FPS is going to bring you attention from the authorities you are the poster child for book smarts without any common sense. my little brother is the same way, made it through high school and college, zero common sense.

Strange, I thought it was pretty clear that the map was made quite awhile before the VA Tech shootings and there wasn't any news about this prior to the shootings. In fact, prior to the VA Tech shooting, there was practically no news at all about expulsions for video games. Funny how common sense likes to kick in only when people become filled with irrational fear.