Strikeforce: Alistair Overeem vs Fabricio Werdum [ June 18, 2011 aka THIS SATURDAY ]

[WaTaGuMp]

QueBert,

More than one mma news site had Overeem winning all three rounds. I know you think Werdum won but he nothing to win.

You can say the same about Overeem but Overeem controlled where the fight took place. You could argue that each time Overeem threw Werdum to the ground, it could count as a takedown. I would think Overeem's few punches that landed did more damage than Werdum's.

In this case, I don't think the judging was all that bad. It was a horrible fight. As I said previously, if Werdum did not act exhausted or beat down after the first round, he probably could have won. Instead, the ref was having to yell at him to get him to stand up. He acted like he couldn't stand up any longer.

They should of given the fight a loss to both of them, kicked them out of the tourny, taken away all of their purse and pissed on them in public.

 

[Woosta]

They should of given the fight a loss to both of them, kicked them out of the tourny, taken away all of their purse and pissed on them in public.

GSP vs Shields and Anderson Silva vs Leites, Anderson vs Maia were far worse - so you're saying all 5 of them should have got a loss for those shitty fights, and kicked out of the UFC?

 

[AznAnarchy99]

A lot of the fighters are not taking any major risks to give fans a show anymore. At least the ones higher up that have much more to lose in a fight. It makes these hyped up main events a huge let down when the fighters take things super conservative to not get hurt and to guarantee a win by decision. That means no knock outs or submissions.

Even in the more exciting fights such as Dos Santos and Carwin when Santos could have gone in for the kill with Carwin gassed, but either 1. he felt like he won already and didnt want to risk any lucky knock out punch or 2. he felt bad for Carwin and didnt want to hurt him more than he did.

 

[QueBert]

A lot of the fighters are not taking any major risks to give fans a show anymore. At least the ones higher up that have much more to lose in a fight. It makes these hyped up main events a huge let down when the fighters take things super conservative to not get hurt and to guarantee a win by decision. That means no knock outs or submissions.

Even in the more exciting fights such as Dos Santos and Carwin when Santos could have gone in for the kill with Carwin gassed, but either 1. he felt like he won already and didnt want to risk any lucky knock out punch or 2. he felt bad for Carwin and didnt want to hurt him more than he did.

JDS punched himself out in the 1st and Carwin still wasn't close to being out imho. I think after that round JDS gave up on finishing him. Plus he was probably pretty gassed himself for using up all his energy in that flurry in the 1st.

 

[waggy]

not to mention shields poked him in the eye and GSP had issues seeing out of it. Not being able to see out of one eye tends to make a person vary cautious

 

[Woosta]

^ lol... GSP has ALWAYS been cautious post Serra 1... he's never taken any risk since that fight.

 

[waggy]

^ lol... GSP has ALWAYS been cautious post Serra 1... he's never taken any risk since that fight.

at the start of the shields fight eh wasn't. then the eye poke he fought a lot more cautious. wich pretty much anyone would.

 

[RPD]

Kinda hard to see punches coming your way with one good eye, which means no depth persception.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Reem going to get eaten alive in the UFC. If Werdum's anemic takedowns are enough to keep him that off-balance, have fun with Cain, Brock, Carwin or even Mir FFS. And I think JDS would beat him standing.

What a horrible main event. Worst main event I've seen. Thank god I didn't pay for it...

 

[Woosta]

Reem going to get eaten alive in the UFC. If Werdum's anemic takedowns are enough to keep him that off-balance, have fun with Cain, Brock, Carwin or even Mir FFS. And I think JDS would beat him standing.

What a horrible main event. Worst main event I've seen. Thank god I didn't pay for it...

It's just that Werdum's style negated his striking.

Reem would still eat the UFC HWs up since they pose less of a threat on the ground. The winner of Bigfoot/Reem would steamroll through the UFC div.

And for the Zuffa zombies - so you're saying that Shields/GSP, GSP/Hardy, Mir/Crocop, GSP/Koscheck, Anderson vs Maia, Anderson vs Leites, Couture vs Coleman were all better main events than Reem vs Werdum?

LOL.

 

[LookBehindYou]

Eh, I don't think one bad performance (and i really don't think it was all that bad, except for reem getting hit from werdum a bit much) is enough to count the Reem out. This performance was extremely similar to the silva/maia fight, with the exception of werdum being able to do a little something on the feet.

I think Reem's next fight against Silva will give us a good indication.

Also, does anyone else think that Cormeir may be a good contender? I want to see him step up in competition.

 

[torpid]

I thought Reem obviously won, but it was not a very exciting fight. Werdum landed a lot of dinky strikes, but Reem constantly threw him to the ground and landed the much heavier strikes. He snuck in a brief amount of ground and pound regularly. Additionally, he controlled where the fight went.

Reem was fairly cautious even in winning K1. During some of those fights, he didn't really start firing on all cylinders until the late rounds. I think that's his style - measuring and stalking, then throwing precise nuclear bombs.

 

[wheresmybacon]

It's just that Werdum's style negated his striking.

Reem would still eat the UFC HWs up since they pose less of a threat on the ground. The winner of Bigfoot/Reem would steamroll through the UFC div.

Maybe less of a threat because they don't have Werdum's subs, but last time I checked, ground n pound is still a pretty effective technique...

And for the Zuffa zombies - so you're saying that Shields/GSP, GSP/Hardy, Mir/Crocop, GSP/Koscheck, Anderson vs Maia, Anderson vs Leites, Couture vs Coleman were all better main events than Reem vs Werdum?

LOL.

With the exception of maybe Silva vs. Maia, yes. I rank Reem vs. Werdum right up there with that one as tied for the worst main event I've personally seen. And I've seen all those you listed.

The reason is these are 2 top 5 heavyweights. Coleman-Couture was equally as bad, but considering they're 2 old men and I wasn't expecting as much, so it's not as bad.

 

[TheNinja]

My thoughts:

Masvidal vs Noons was an awesome fight! I was rooting for Jorge so it made it even better. Great action, pace, skill, etc.

Griggs - Nice win....man, Oldereem doesn't seem to have a lot of heart left huh? Tapping to strikes.

Cormier looked pretty dang good in that fight I must say. Not really exciting b/c it was just rinse and repeat after 1 round, but good showing. Monson of course had no answer for the standup with his t-rex arms, and no way he's taking Cormier down.

Barnett vs Rogers - Pretty much like we thought it would go. I thought Brett might threaten more standing up, but Barnett did prove why his game is so scary. Rogers did OK on the ground as far as trying escapes and such, Barnett is just too heavy on top.
Barnett annoys the crap out of me. Please don't let him talk anymore. If I have to hear him go on and on about "pile of skulls", "stacking up bodies", the "War Master", etc. I'll punch myself out. This isn't Japanese pro wrestling Josh.

Overeem vs Werdum - Wow...so this is the Overeem who is supposed to be a world beater and #1 HW? Ya, he was scared of Werdum's "takedowns" but still, let your hands go man. And he was straight up gassed after 1 1/2 rounds..they both were. I notice Overeem in the last 2 years has gone from a fast/quick combo thrower to just covering up and "stalking" his opponent to just throw a bomb.
I had Overeem winning 29-28 with Werdum taking round 3. No way can Werdum get the win, it just looks plain horrible when you flop around on your back 1/2 the time even if you did land more strikes. Plus he should have lost a point in round 2 for failing to get up in a timely manner....damn. He just sat there. 1 time I went to the kitchen to get a beer and was able to get back before he got up off the ground. I thought we might get a DQ for "failure to get up from butt scoot"
I'm pretty sure Big Foot isn't losing any sleep over having to fight either one of those guys. He's gotta be the favorite to win this tourny now.

Announcers and commentators - HORRIBLE!

 

[torpid]

Reem often breathes heavily. He didn't seem gassed until near the end of the 3rd round to me. Could be wrong. I'd be most afraid of Barnett if I were in the tourney.

 

[Kirby]

Monson looks like a white supremacist prison rapist.

 

[isekii]

Monson looks like a white supremacist prison rapist.

with all that bulk he looked so slow.

Any quick fighter would tear his ass apart. no pun intended

 

[the DRIZZLE]

It's just that Werdum's style negated his striking.

Reem would still eat the UFC HWs up since they pose less of a threat on the ground. The winner of Bigfoot/Reem would steamroll through the UFC div.

And for the Zuffa zombies - so you're saying that Shields/GSP, GSP/Hardy, Mir/Crocop, GSP/Koscheck, Anderson vs Maia, Anderson vs Leites, Couture vs Coleman were all better main events than Reem vs Werdum?

LOL.

You seem to lack the ability to assimilate new information to adjust your opinions. Overeem was exposed as the same shitty fighter he was at 205. Cain or JDS would walk through him.

 

[shopbruin]

It's just that Werdum's style negated his striking.

Reem would still eat the UFC HWs up since they pose less of a threat on the ground. The winner of Bigfoot/Reem would steamroll through the UFC div.

And for the Zuffa zombies - so you're saying that Shields/GSP, GSP/Hardy, Mir/Crocop, GSP/Koscheck, Anderson vs Maia, Anderson vs Leites, Couture vs Coleman were all better main events than Reem vs Werdum?

LOL.

If you're going to say Werdum's style negated Reem's striking, then you HAVE to acknowledge that GSP game planned for each person he fought to negate their advantages, leading to your "boring" main events.

This is the same as Anderson vs Leites. Leites just laid there like a turtle, what the hell was Anderson going to do? "Why yes, I will roll around on the ground with you." Same thing with Maia.

Reem vs Cain would be interesting, since Cain is a wrestler and actually knows how to take people down. His next fight will be in November, so first things first, see if he can defend after a very layoff.

 

[TheNinja]

You seem to lack the ability to assimilate new information to adjust your opinions. Overeem was exposed as the same shitty fighter he was at 205. Cain or JDS would walk through him.

Yup. Woosta has some decent MMA ideas, but like many Sherdoggers is stuck on the "PRIDE was awesome and all PRIDE based fighters are better than any crappy UFC guys". From what I saw on Saturday Cain and Brock would tear Overeem up. He looked very slow and tentative. JDS and Carwin looked like better MMA strikers than Overeem.

 

[QueBert]

Yup. Woosta has some decent MMA ideas, but like many Sherdoggers is stuck on the "PRIDE was awesome and all PRIDE based fighters are better than any crappy UFC guys". From what I saw on Saturday Cain and Brock would tear Overeem up. He looked very slow and tentative. JDS and Carwin looked like better MMA strikers than Overeem.

true, but at least he looked better than his brother

 

[wheresmybacon]

with all that bulk he looked so slow.

Any quick fighter would tear his ass apart. no pun intended

He's a really strange fighter. He carries all this extra muscle mass but doesn't use it. I understand his opponent was an olympic wrestler, but man...you're a fighter. Do something, anything. He was very, very passive. I haven't seen him fight since the UFC so it's been a while, but I don't remember him being so tentative.

 

[TheNinja]

He's a really strange fighter. He carries all this extra muscle mass but doesn't use it. I understand his opponent was an olympic wrestler, but man...you're a fighter. Do something, anything. He was very, very passive. I haven't seen him fight since the UFC so it's been a while, but I don't remember him being so tentative.

I think Monson's problem was that he was too slow to get inside of Cormier's striking. He wasn't good enough in the clinch to do any inside work or takedown. And he was too slow and too far out to shoot in for a takedown. I don't think he could do anything. He had no answer for anything Cormier was throwing at him.

There is talk of him going to 205 now. I don't think it will help him that much at his age to be honest. He'll be even slower compared to the 205ers.

 

[Woosta]

Yup. Woosta has some decent MMA ideas, but like many Sherdoggers is stuck on the "PRIDE was awesome and all PRIDE based fighters are better than any crappy UFC guys". From what I saw on Saturday Cain and Brock would tear Overeem up. He looked very slow and tentative. JDS and Carwin looked like better MMA strikers than Overeem.

If I was a PRIDE nuthugger then I'd say that Big Nog and Cro Cop would win their next fight(s) but they won't.. they're way past their prime.

Same with Gomi.

I don't nuthug Aoki, I dont think hes top 3 at all.

I'm far from a JMMA/PRIDE zombie.

 

[Jeraden]

Seems people are ripping into Overeem a lot more than they are Werdum. While it wasn't a very exciting fight, Overeem stuck to his gameplan and wasn't lured into the guard of Werdum. It's hard to get into a striking match with someone that flops on their back constantly. Overeem successfully stuffed every takedown attempt, most of them being pretty pathetic ones that anyone could stuff. In fact, Werdum basically did absolutely nothing the whole fight. He was obviously too scared to trade blows to the point that it turned the match into a joke. The amount of offense he attempted wouldn't have beaten anyone in the league, even a complete scrub - attempting to pull guard a dozen times and failing. So I'm baffled why some people think he deserved a win. Aside from a few light strikes, he really didn't do anything.

Now, you could say Overeem didn't do jack either, but at least he wasn't acting like a fool out there. He was patient and picking his strikes, and not just rushing blindly into something out of frustration. Which is what Werdum probably wanted him to do, and which is why its really a failing on Werdum's part a lot more than it is on Overeem. You can't engage someone that flops to the mat constantly.