Straight-A student?s parents sue over F

[thepd7]

Not sure how many of you are actually in college right now and/or have applied recently but there are specific scholarships (at my school at least) for valedictorians and at my high school the top 10 were all 4.35-4.5 GPA separated by fractions of points. That B that might cost her valedictorian could cost her literally tens of thousands in scholarships.

Before anyone else says it is rediculous think about how you would feel if someone was stealing $20k you have worked the past 4 years to earn.

I agree with those who say she probably wouldn't have the 4.5 without the parents because that was the case at my school but you don't know that for a fact, hence the lawsuit is not frivilous and I hope she wins.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Well I came up through public schools, and I've been in this exact situation several times in my less responsible years. My teachers specifically tole me that an assignment would not be accepted late, and due to some stupid reason I would forget (or occasionally I would actually have a vlid reason) I've never been to court, and I always worked it out with the school, or not. I earned a few Fs. They have not damaged my success in the least, and I believe I am a better person for it.

you've been in the situation where the teacher violated school policy and gave you a failing grade on a major project, dropping your GPA so that you're not competitive with all the other students who took art via catalog so the 4.0-scale class wouldn't drag on your GPA, and now your chances of getting into Harvard have precipitously dropped?

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: yowolabi
Looks like they have a case. Punitive damages are obvioulsly unneeded, but I see no reason they shouldn't sue to have the paper graded correctly.

If she followed the rules, why should she get punished?

wait... so she is on a school approved trip. she knew she would be on that trip so she should have got her assignment done and handed in BEFOREHAND.

according to the article she was given "ample notice that late submissions would not be accepted."

Well the athletes get an extra day. Why not her? She has a really good case, and IMO, will win.

Whether it should have even come to this is another story.

 

[jjones]

I'm not a big fan of lawsuits but sometimes they are necessary and it seems this is one such case given the precedent already set by the school. Sometimes teachers and administrators can be overly rigid, arbitrarily deciding to be inflexible on some random issue to the detriment of all involved. A case of bad judgement on the part of the school I'd say. I don't know that punitive damages should be awarded though, assuming a reversal in grade results in no ill effects to the girl.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: thepd7
Not sure how many of you are actually in college right now and/or have applied recently but there are specific scholarships (at my school at least) for valedictorians and at my high school the top 10 were all 4.35-4.5 GPA separated by fractions of points. That B that might cost her valedictorian could cost her literally tens of thousands in scholarships.

Before anyone else says it is rediculous think about how you would feel if someone was stealing $20k you have worked the past 4 years to earn.

I agree with those who say she probably wouldn't have the 4.5 without the parents because that was the case at my school but you don't know that for a fact, hence the lawsuit is not frivilous and I hope she wins.

yeap. wich is what blows my mind on why she would not have taken steps to protect herself.

such as talking to the teacher/principale or makeing sure the project was done early. sure there is a policy in place. but sometimes ****** happens. such as now.

 

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: AStar617
http://sundaygazettemail.com/section/News/2007031226

March 13, 2007

Web Tools: [print]
Straight-A student?s parents sue over F


By The Associated Press

A top student?s failing biology project grade has landed a Sissonville High School teacher and the school system in court.

The parent of the straight-A student is suing teacher Jane Schultz and the Kanawha County Board of Education, claiming the low score hurt the female student?s 4.5 GPA.

The student, identified only as ?L.H.? in court papers, was given an F? on a leaf project, wherein she collected and identified leaves, because she handed it in a day late, the lawsuit said.

The project?s deadline listed in the class syllabus was Oct. 17, but L.H. was attending a school-approved student council trip to Jacksons Mill in Lewis County from Oct. 15-17.

J. Michael Ronson, the student?s lawyer, said the late assignment should be accepted because the trip had been approved by the principal. Other absent students, including athletes and those who are suspended under disciplinary action, are allowed to hand in work after they return to school, he said.

?It could possibly take her out of the running for valedictorian, and for those highly competitive students, you certainly would make as many A?s as you can,? Ronson said.

[b]The case, filed in Kanawha Circuit Court, seeks an injunction, punitive damages, and damages for ?emotional stress, loss of enjoyment of life, loss of scholarship potential.?[/b]

Schultz and Nancy Walker, assistant principal at Sissonville High, declined comment because of ongoing litigation.

?The class had ample notice that late submissions would not be accepted,? said Jim Withrow, attorney for the Kanawha school board.

?Part of going to school is learning there are rules, learning there are deadlines. Unfortunately, this is a pretty good student. But sometimes you just have to learn from your mistakes.?

But Ronson says his client is actually following the rules very closely.

?She?s really not protesting a bad grade, what she?s protesting is that there?s a refusal to follow the rule in Kanawha County, that if you?re absent from school with permission, then you are given the days you?re absent to make up or complete the work you?ve done,? Ronson said.

As the most significant assignment of the semester, the leaf project was worth more points than the final exam and the student?s A grade will drop to a B if the failing grade stands.

The West Virginia Education Association says they?re watching the case closely, because it could set a precedent.

A hearing has been scheduled March 29, at 10 a.m. with Kanawha Circuit Judge Duke Bloom, and attorneys for the school board have filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit, which can be heard at that time.[/quote]

I repeat--

w... t... f... [/quote]

wah i made a f on ONE DAMN THING LETS FLIP THE HELL OUT

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: thepd7
Not sure how many of you are actually in college right now and/or have applied recently but there are specific scholarships (at my school at least) for valedictorians and at my high school the top 10 were all 4.35-4.5 GPA separated by fractions of points. That B that might cost her valedictorian could cost her literally tens of thousands in scholarships.

Before anyone else says it is rediculous think about how you would feel if someone was stealing $20k you have worked the past 4 years to earn.

I agree with those who say she probably wouldn't have the 4.5 without the parents because that was the case at my school but you don't know that for a fact, hence the lawsuit is not frivilous and I hope she wins.

I fail to understand how people think that it's the parents that got the students a 4.5? Did the parents take the tests for the kids? Many of my friends from high school had perfect GPAs, in fact, I'd say a huge percentage of them received the max GPA available of 4.25. I know that they earned every point of their GPA.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: thepd7
Not sure how many of you are actually in college right now and/or have applied recently but there are specific scholarships (at my school at least) for valedictorians and at my high school the top 10 were all 4.35-4.5 GPA separated by fractions of points. That B that might cost her valedictorian could cost her literally tens of thousands in scholarships.

Before anyone else says it is rediculous think about how you would feel if someone was stealing $20k you have worked the past 4 years to earn.

I agree with those who say she probably wouldn't have the 4.5 without the parents because that was the case at my school but you don't know that for a fact, hence the lawsuit is not frivilous and I hope she wins.

yeap. wich is what blows my mind on why she would not have taken steps to protect herself.

such as talking to the teacher/principale or makeing sure the project was done early. sure there is a policy in place. but sometimes ****** happens. such as now.

And that's why she has the right and duty to sue to correct the wrong.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: thepd7
Not sure how many of you are actually in college right now and/or have applied recently but there are specific scholarships (at my school at least) for valedictorians and at my high school the top 10 were all 4.35-4.5 GPA separated by fractions of points. That B that might cost her valedictorian could cost her literally tens of thousands in scholarships.

Before anyone else says it is rediculous think about how you would feel if someone was stealing $20k you have worked the past 4 years to earn.

I agree with those who say she probably wouldn't have the 4.5 without the parents because that was the case at my school but you don't know that for a fact, hence the lawsuit is not frivilous and I hope she wins.

I fail to understand how people think that it's the parents that got the students a 4.5? Did the parents take the tests for the kids? Many of my friends from high school had perfect GPAs, in fact, I'd say a huge percentage of them received the max GPA available of 4.25. I know that they earned every point of their GPA.

I agree completely

The only people berating her for contesting her grade in this thread are the people who couldn't earn A's consistently in the first place.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
wah i made a f on ONE DAMN THING LETS FLIP THE HELL OUT

Because grades mean nothing when applying to college. Do you even realize how competitive it is to get into the top schools these days? Do you want to let us know what your academic records are and what school you attended?

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: jiggahertz
J. Michael Ronson, the student?s lawyer, said the late assignment should be accepted because the trip had been approved by the principal. Other absent students, including athletes and those who are suspended under disciplinary action, are allowed to hand in work after they return to school, he said.

Seems like it should have been accepted, but a lawsuit is a little over the top.

qft

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
after the fact, as there was nothing to sue about before the fact. obviously no one thought to discuss it before the fact. probably because the school policy was clear on what would happen. it was only when that policy was arbitrarily violated did any grounds for a law suit come up

Wait, you know the school's policy? Do you live in the area or something? Because the article does NOT say what the school's policy is, they just have the prosecution's statement that "athletes get to turn in late work all the time!", which isn't exactly the same thing.

 

[Xylitol]

Leaf projects are done in like 6th grade
Parents are probably asian

 

[drinkmorejava]

Girl should have asked beforehand, but it's high school, teachers have to follow the rules, which in most cases ends up hurting the class because they can't kids out and etc...in college the teacher could do whatever the heck they wanted but they're SOL here.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Xylitol
Leaf projects are done in like 6th grade
Parents are probably asian

Leaf projects are not restricted to 6th grade. Are people unable to grasp the concept of varying levels of difficulty and detail? UCLA's first year Bio major courses do experiments with leaves, therefore UCLA must be a 6th grade level school, am I right?

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: irishScott

Well I came up through public schools, and I've been in this exact situation several times in my less responsible years. My teachers specifically tole me that an assignment would not be accepted late, and due to some stupid reason I would forget (or occasionally I would actually have a vlid reason) I've never been to court, and I always worked it out with the school, or not. I earned a few Fs. They have not damaged my success in the least, and I believe I am a better person for it.

you've been in the situation where the teacher violated school policy and gave you a failing grade on a major project, dropping your GPA so that you're not competitive with all the other students who took art via catalog so the 4.0-scale class wouldn't drag on your GPA, and now your chances of getting into Harvard have precipitously dropped?

Yes. Happened Junior year, basic Physics. Took me from a 3.2 to a 3.0 at the end of the year, and killed my dream of getting a 3.6 or above and applying to GA Tech or Carnegie Melon (my SATs were on the high end and my Engineering/Science and Music oriented Resume would make most colleges drool. I can list it so you can judge if you like). Still, I didn't wind up in court, and I took the same teacher for AP Physics the next year, got a 4 on the Exam and a B+ in the class.

I am now getting straight As at the University of Delaware (Freshman Computer Engineering Major), and have had an internship at Lockheed Martin for software engineering since last summer that will hopefully turn into a job.

I also got accepted into Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Rochester Institute of Technology, NC State, George Mason (my backup) and of course, the University of Delaware. Only UVA rejected me.

Despite it's lack of publicity, UDel is actually surprisingly good from both Engineering and Music. Check it out highschool kids.


Remainder of pitch for UDEL:

I'm building basic circuits on breadboards now while my friends at VA Tech are still running through their "Introductory" Programs.

 

[zylander]

The girl and her parents need to be shot.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: geecee
Suing is ridiculous, but I, as a parent, would be extremely angry if my kid was given a failing grade because they handed in a project a day late because they were away on a school-related function. What kind of a asshat teacher doesn't make a slight exception in this case? Either way, it should never have gotten to the point that a lawsuit is filed to waste the court's time and the taxpayer's dime.

EDIT: Spelling

Its up to the student to talk to the teacher about it and get it okayed. You cant just go and turn it in a day late without talking the the teach.

 

[zylander]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: geecee
Suing is ridiculous, but I, as a parent, would be extremely angry if my kid was given a failing grade because they handed in a project a day late because they were away on a school-related function. What kind of a asshat teacher doesn't make a slight exception in this case? Either way, it should never have gotten to the point that a lawsuit is filed to waste the court's time and the taxpayer's dime.

EDIT: Spelling

Its up to the student to talk to the teacher about it and get it okayed. You cant just go and turn it in a day late without talking the the teach.

Yup, the student shouldnt just assume they will be able to turn it in late becuase they are away on a school function. She should have gone and talked to him before hand. And, even then the teacher doesnt have to let her turn it in late, especially when the teacher clearly states that it will not be accepted late.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: thraashman

Originally posted by: JS80
teacher and school are being unfair, i hope she wins the lawsuit. parents should control schools, not power hungry bureaucrats.

You obviously don't know any teachers. Parents should most certainly NOT control schools. Because first off, teachers have degrees in this stuff. For some reason parents think they know more than students. She had advanced notice that she was going to be absent, and therefore it was HER responsibility to turn the project in early! It's by no means the teacher's fault that the student chose to ignore the turn in date and is trying to use a school trip as an excuse to get extra time that other students did not get.

the school's policy is to accept projects turned in the day after a school trip. everyone on a school trip has advance notice that they'll be away, yet only this one student is penalized for it. as a governmental body, the school and teacher cannot engage in arbitrary and capricious behavior like that.

Originally posted by: Citrix

The project?s deadline listed in the class syllabus was Oct. 17, but L.H. was attending a school-approved student council trip to Jacksons Mill in Lewis County from Oct. 15-17.

so if she was GONE on a trip on the 17th when it was due then that means she should have had it done and turned in BEFORE she left for the trip.

pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

not when the SCHOOL'S POLICY is to accept work the day after the trip that was due during the trip. this one teacher unilaterally changed that rule for one student. the teacher can't do that.

The exception would be if every other student consulted with the teacher, and she did not. Which is likley the case.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: jagec
Wait, you know the school's policy? Do you live in the area or something? Because the article does NOT say what the school's policy is, they just have the prosecution's statement that "athletes get to turn in late work all the time!", which isn't exactly the same thing.

it's the plaintiff's, not the prosecution's. and, we don't have any other indication of what the policy is, but this is pretty clear:

the rule in Kanawha County, that if you?re absent from school with permission, then you are given the days you?re absent to make up or complete the work you?ve done

i'm only going on what has been presented to me, obviously. if i've been lied to then i would change my position accordingly.

Originally posted by: irishScott

Yes. Happened Junior year, basic Physics. Took me from a 3.2 to a 3.0 at the end of the year, and killed my dream of getting a 3.6 or above and applying to GA Tech or Carnegie Melon (my SATs were on the high end and my Engineering/Science and Music oriented Resume would make most colleges drool. I can list it so you can judge if you like). Still, I didn't wind up in court, and I took the same teacher for AP Physics the next year, got a 4 on the Exam and a B+ in the class.

well ok then. i honestly have no idea where most of the schools you listed rank against each other (other than CMU and GT being pretty good). still, your teacher violated school policy to give you the 'unfair' grade?

Originally posted by: Wreckem

The exception would be if every other student consulted with the teacher, and she did not. Which is likley the case.

again, all i know is what has been presented to me, but if the policy is as presented and not 'give the teacher a note first,' then whether she or anyone else gave the teacher a note is irrelevant.

 

[wetcat007]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
On a side note, they have a point, you cant punish a student for not turning an assignment in on time when they are out AT A SCHOOL FUNCTION! If they had an issue with it they should have said the assignment needed to be in before the trip

Was she given the option to turn it in early since she knew ahead of time she'd be gone?

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: ElFenix
after the fact, as there was nothing to sue about before the fact. obviously no one thought to discuss it before the fact. probably because the school policy was clear on what would happen. it was only when that policy was arbitrarily violated did any grounds for a law suit come up

Wait, you know the school's policy? Do you live in the area or something? Because the article does NOT say what the school's policy is, they just have the prosecution's statement that "athletes get to turn in late work all the time!", which isn't exactly the same thing.

Yeah, that's part of the problem here. The girl's lawyer is not quoting the actual policy which is a state policy. It says that a student who has ANY absence has to be given the same amount of time to complete any assignments for the days they missed. So if they missed Monday and Tuesday, you give them the assignments on Wednesday and can require that the Monday assignment must be turned in on Thursday and the Tuesday one on Friday. (And yes, I do teach in the same state.)

I guess in this particular case the girl's lawyer could argue that if the class was given say, 7 days to complete the assignment and the girl's absence caused her to only have 5 days to complete it, then she should be allowed the two more days to complete it. The school though could argue that because the assignment was not given on the days she missed, but much earlier, the rule doesn't apply here.

Technically speaking, I'd think the school has the better case when applied to the actual policy, but really everyone is being pretty ridiculous about it. The girl knew when the assignment was due, the rule about it not being accepted late, and that she would be gone when it was due. She should have planned accordingly or talked to the teacher about it ahead of time. If the parents are so involved in their child's education, why didn't they just turn the project in for her on the day it was due? Like someone else said, she wasn't going to be working on it during her trip, it should have already been done and they could have dropped it off at the school.

While I can see people thinking the teacher is being too hard-nosed here, you have to look at it from her perspective of what is most fair and what she's supposed to be teaching the kids. I can see the teacher feeling that it would be unfair to accept the girl's work late, especially if there are other students in the class who got a zero for not turning the project in on time for whatever reason. There would be a lot of students and parents saying why did she get preferential treatment? She did set a deadline and let them know the consequences ahead of time and there are deadlines that have to be met out there in college and the working world. Shouldn't she be teaching them that? If the girl wins this case then you'd just have to do away with setting deadlines for anything because that interpretation of the policy would mean that any kid who didn't have an assignment ready on the day it was due could just miss the day that it's due and however many other days they needed to get it done and then turn it in with no consequences. Is that the way it works in the world outside of high school?

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: irishScott

Well I came up through public schools, and I've been in this exact situation several times in my less responsible years. My teachers specifically tole me that an assignment would not be accepted late, and due to some stupid reason I would forget (or occasionally I would actually have a vlid reason) I've never been to court, and I always worked it out with the school, or not. I earned a few Fs. They have not damaged my success in the least, and I believe I am a better person for it.

you've been in the situation where the teacher violated school policy and gave you a failing grade on a major project, dropping your GPA so that you're not competitive with all the other students who took art via catalog so the 4.0-scale class wouldn't drag on your GPA, and now your chances of getting into Harvard have precipitously dropped?

Yes. Happened Junior year, basic Physics. Took me from a 3.2 to a 3.0 at the end of the year, and killed my dream of getting a 3.6 or above and applying to GA Tech or Carnegie Melon (my SATs were on the high end and my Engineering/Science and Music oriented Resume would make most colleges drool. I can list it so you can judge if you like). Still, I didn't wind up in court, and I took the same teacher for AP Physics the next year, got a 4 on the Exam and a B+ in the class.

I am now getting straight As at the University of Delaware (Freshman Computer Engineering Major), and have had an internship at Lockheed Martin for software engineering since last summer that will hopefully turn into a job.

I also got accepted into Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Rochester Institute of Technology, NC State, George Mason (my backup) and of course, the University of Delaware. Only UVA rejected me.

Despite it's lack of publicity, UDel is actually surprisingly good from both Engineering and Music. Check it out highschool kids.


Remainder of pitch for UDEL:

I'm building basic circuits on breadboards now while my friends at VA Tech are still running through their "Introductory" Programs.

you had a 3.0 gpa. totally different from a 4.5 gpa if i'm not mistaken, and you weren't in position to be an extraordinarily high achieving student. Plus, it wasn't like just one assignment totally fvcked you over in that class because you turned it in late while on a school trip. Or am I wrong?

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: wetcat007

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
On a side note, they have a point, you cant punish a student for not turning an assignment in on time when they are out AT A SCHOOL FUNCTION! If they had an issue with it they should have said the assignment needed to be in before the trip

Was she given the option to turn it in early since she knew ahead of time she'd be gone?

you can turn anything in early, even the day that it's assigned if you like. But that's not the point.