Stephon Clark was shot 7 times in the back

[HomerJS]

If you think anybody is happy the killer in Florida is still alive, you would be wrong. When white criminals are killed by cops, white people in general don't really give a shit. If this kid had been white, I doubt people would care much that he was killed.

I myself admit to having a bias against people who are killed in the midst of a crime spree. I know that I am completely incorrect in this bias but for whatever reason I can't get over my emotional feeling that the person engaged in a crime spree is an objectively bad person who is harming society. This bias makes me much less likely to view that person's death as a tragedy.

Just food for thought this guy gets 20 rounds dead and his worst offense possibly simple break in.

They just let the affuenza guy out of jail. He killed 4 people, broke house arrest and fled to Mexico with his mother.

 

[bshole]

Just food for thought this guy gets 20 rounds dead and his worst offense possibly simple break in.

They just let the affuenza guy out of jail. He killed 4 people, broke house arrest and fled to Mexico with his mother.

Well the fucker was rich. But yea, it is outrageous that he got out. I have definitely noticed that the wealthy get away with murder. One of the Kenney's drove drunk into a river and left the woman he was with to drown in a river. He didn't spend a day in jail. That my friend is raw naked power.

Regarding this sympathy for a criminals life, I have little. This topic is somewhat personal for me. My own son is skating around thug life. I could EASILY see him getting murdered, getting arrested or being shot by cops. I know I would be horribly upset if it happened but objectively my son is probably engaging in behavior that harms other people (I don't have definitive proof of this yet). He is playing a stupid game and he may win a stupid prize. I hate to say that my son is evil but I believe some of his actions are. It hurts for a father to recognize that failing in his son. If he is killed during a crime spree, I will first blame myself and then I will blame him. That is the correct moral attribution in my opinion.

 

[HomerJS]

Well the fucker was rich. But yea, it is outrageous that he got out. I have definitely noticed that the wealthy get away with murder. One of the Kenney's drove drunk into a river and left the woman he was with to drown in a river. He didn't spend a day in jail. That my friend is raw naked power.

Regarding this sympathy for a criminals life, I have little. This topic is somewhat personal for me. My own son is skating around thug life. I could EASILY see him getting murdered, getting arrested or being shot by cops. I know I would be horribly upset if it happened but objectively my son is probably engaging in behavior that harms other people (I don't have definitive proof of this yet). He is playing a stupid game and he may win a stupid prize. I hate to say that my son is evil but I believe some of his actions are. It hurts for a father to recognize that failing in his son. If he is killed during a crime spree, I will first blame myself and then I will blame him. That is the correct moral attribution in my opinion.

I'm withholding judgement on the deceased until it is determined if he was breaking into other houses. Do we know?

 

[bshole]

I'm withholding judgement on the deceased until it is determined if he was breaking into other houses. Do we know?

Meh, this seems to be the extent of what we know. It is possible that another person was out breaking into cars but given the evidence we have it seems more likely that Stephon was the person doing it.

The shooting happened on Sunday after 9 p.m., when Sacramento officers responded to a report that a man had broken car windows and was hiding in a backyard. They pursued a man who hopped a fence into the grandmother's property.
The shooting was captured by the two officers' body cameras and a police helicopter; that footage was released on Wednesday in an effort to be transparent.

The body camera videos show the brief encounter between police and Clark, lasting less than a minute, from the moment one of the officers yelled: "Hey, show me your hands. Stop. Stop."

Police said the officers entered the front yard and saw the suspect along the side of the home. The man "turned and advanced toward the officers while holding an object" extended in front of him, according to the police account.
"Show me your hands!" one of the officers yelled. "Gun, gun, gun."

 

[Noah Abrams]

My own son is skating around thug life. I could EASILY see him getting murdered, getting arrested or being shot by cops. I know I would be horribly upset if it happened but objectively my son is probably engaging in behavior that harms other people (I don't have definitive proof of this yet). He is playing a stupid game and he may win a stupid prize. I hate to say that my son is evil but I believe some of his actions are. It hurts for a father to recognize that failing in his son. If he is killed during a crime spree, I will first blame myself and then I will blame him. That is the correct moral attribution in my opinion.

There are countless thugs like that in this country. If they were regularly getting shot by police during a crime spree, there won't be space left in morgues. So the chances of your son getting shot by police are minuscule. What you said above is a classic example of news cycle creating a false perception

 

[bshole]

There are countless thugs like that in this country. If they were regularly getting shot by police during a crime spree, there won't be space left in morgues. So the chances of your son getting shot by police are minuscule. What you said above is a classic example of news cycle creating a false perception

Well I was pretty certain he was getting into dealing about 6 months ago. I have been working on him ever since.

The thing about my son is that he is totally into black people. His best friends are all black. He has much closer friendships with them than I ever had with my peers. I tried to use that against him in our discussions. First I asked him what he thought the world at large thought of drug dealers. I then asked him what benefit drug dealers add to society. I asked him about what kind of retirement plan drug dealers had and what was their life expectancy. I asked him what the chances of rape were for young attractive white kids in prison. I asked him if drug dealers improved the lives of the junkies they serviced. I asked him what the skill set was for a drug dealer. I asked him if drug dealers were good moral people. I then asked him what black communities thought of the drug dealers terrorizing their neighborhoods. I then made the flat out assertion that any person who purportedly cared passionately about the black community would despise drug dealers and the misery they have wrought. I don't know if this argument reached him but there is a slight possibility that it did.

Basically since then the overt signs of dealing have gone away. I am not gullible enough to believe that he has stopped but I am hopeful. I gave it my best shot and talked to him multiple times about this. Really he fucks up, it is completely on him. He has a cousin who dealt for a year or two before straightening out his life so yes it is possible that my son could do the same.

 

[Noah Abrams]

I don't mean to be rude, but I am wondering where were you when he was making all these friends? I am saying this because from now on, you need to be very involved in his life. Not so much as to lecture him, but to just keep talking to him about different things. Spend time with him. He is more likely to confide in you this way than answering questions.

As for black community and drug dealers. If someone sits close to a lion with a big piece of read meat in their hand, it is only natural that the lion would devour them. The issue is the scores of people who have had no upbringing, no disciple, no values, no ethics instilled in them. So if it were not drug dealers, it would be someone else who would fill their space. The issue is not the drug dealers as such.

 

[Lanyap]

The official autopsy report has been released and contradicts some of the significant findings in the private autopsy. I found a number of recent stories about the official autopsy with varying levels of details so you can't get an all inclusive picture with one article but this one describes many of the contrasts and details. I'm not sure how you resolve these significant differences between forensic experts. I guess that will be decided in court.

I did find that the official autopsy aligns more with what I saw in the infrared helo video.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...nto-report-differs-private-autopsy/573568002/

The Sacramento County coroner's report on the death of Stephon Clark, an unarmed 22-year-old black man shot by two police officers in his grandmother's yard, widely differs from a private autopsy ordered by his family.

Clark was shot seven times on March 18, with the first bullet hitting the front of his body, according to the county coroner’s autopsy released Tuesday by Sacramento police. That matches the original police account that said Clark was walking toward the officers when they started firing.

The finding contrasts with an autopsy report by Bennet Omalu, an independent pathologist hired by the Clark family, who said the young man was shot eight times — six of those in the back.

Sacramento County Coroner Kimberly Gin, in a letter to the police department, said the private autopsy was “erroneous.” The county autopsy was performed March 20.

The county autopsy found three of the seven shots struck Clark’s back, and atoxicology report said he was legally drunk and had traces of cocaine, cannabis and codeine in his system.

Omalu, the private pathologist, mistook an exit wound for a separate entrance wound, wrote forensic pathologist Gregory Reiber in his case review for the county of both autopsies and other evidence.

“This is a significant error, as it leads to incorrect conclusions regarding the relative positions of the victim and shooters during the event,” Reiber said in the report also released by the police Tuesday.

Omalu said at a March 30 news conference that Clark’s back was facing officers during the shooting. Clark’s family attorney, Benjamin Crump, called the event "inexcusable, unfair and unfathomable" in an opinion column for USA TODAY after Clark's funeral.

Reiber denied that Clark was facing away from the officers.

“The video evidence provides clear refutation of Omalu’s description of Clark’s positioning during the shooting as described in his press conference statements,” Reiber said in the report.
...

This link contains the official autopsy report and other details.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article210248019.html

This link contains a letter from doctor Omalu explaining what he saw in his autopsy and other details.
http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article210349814.html

 

[UNCjigga]

OMG, I finally found an appropriate use for this GIF!

 

[kage69]

Just food for thought this guy gets 20 rounds dead and his worst offense possibly simple break in.

They just let the affuenza guy out of jail. He killed 4 people, broke house arrest and fled to Mexico with his mother.

I often wonder how Ammon Bundy would have been dealt with were he black or brown. The disparity in LEO responses based on suspect ethnicity is truly disgusting.

 

[Darwin333]

I often wonder how Ammon Bundy would have been dealt with were he black or brown. The disparity in LEO responses based on suspect ethnicity is truly disgusting.

I don't know if that is the best case to try and compare. The FBI didn't want another WACO or Ruby Ridge on their hands and despite not liking how much it cost us taxpayers for it to drag on the way it did they ended it with the least amount of injury possible. I don't think that race would have mattered much in THAT particular scenario.

I do agree with your sentiment though, I've seen videos of white guys holding actual guns and being talked down for 30 minutes. Black dude on the phone holding the barrel of a BB gun gets lit up before he can even comprehend WTF is going on.

 

[kage69]

I don't know if that is the best case to try and compare. The FBI didn't want another WACO or Ruby Ridge on their hands and despite not liking how much it cost us taxpayers for it to drag on the way it did they ended it with the least amount of injury possible. I don't think that race would have mattered much in THAT particular scenario.

I've heard that before I just don't think I buy it. Bundy's fiasco was completely different than either of the events you stated, remember the lack of preparation? Branch Davidians and off grid militia types dug in, and in the case of Waco they had an arsenal, augmented with quick fire triggers, plenty of ammo and a game plan for resistance. In Bundy's case, that handful of morons were asking the web to send food and supplies, appealing for reinforcements as well.

Remember this Bundy supporter? He's pointing that AK-74 at cops. Pretty sure most black guys would consider doing the same as an act of suicide.

I remember that Walmart shooting too, horrible. Up there with that little black kid on the playground, toy gun stuck in his pants. Cops just rolled up and shot him immediately, a kid wearing a toy gun in an open carry state. There are a lot of cops out there who shouldn't be wearing badges.

 

[The Merg]

But the shooting as seen from muzzle flashes in the helicopter video, and how long they fired on the body cam footage, means they kept shooting probably after Clark was down. Once the decision to use deadly force is made, you shoot to kill, not injure. This is something cops are often trained to do, especially since the could not see the suspects hands as they were under him. Again, is that reasonable? Up to a judge and jury.

One correction... Police are trained to shoot until the threat is stopped and not trained to shoot to kill. Seems like a minor distinction, but very significant.

- Merg

 

[Paladin3]

One correction... Police are trained to shoot until the threat is stopped and not trained to shoot to kill. Seems like a minor distinction, but very significant.

- Merg

What I meant was that they are not trained to shoot to wound. Yes, once the suspect is no longer a threat they stop shooting. Too often folks ask stupid questions about why the cops couldn't have "shot the suspect in the leg" or something stupid like that.