Stephon Clark was shot 7 times in the back

[Paladin3]

Tell it to the victims.

It's not a police officer's job to remain safe. It's their job to ensure the safety of civilians. Shooting civilians should be the last resort. The other way around is the same sort of pure insanity that would ensue if firefighters decided that their safety came first, or if paramedics started shooting the injured in case they were armed.

Once an officer believes a gun is being pointed at him, what other actions does he have to defend himself? What other last resort should he use? Wait for the suspect to get the first shot off?

I'm sure once in a while it would have good results because the office was mistaken. Most of the time you'd have a potentially dead officer. I'm sure that would be so much better in your mind?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Once an officer believes a gun is being pointed at him, what other actions does he have to defend himself? What other last resort should he use? Wait for the suspect to get the first shot off?

I'm sure once in a while it would have good results because the office was mistaken. Most of the time you'd have a potentially dead officer. I'm sure that would be so much better in your mind?

So are you now arguing for removal of gun ownership? Or just more acceptable losses?

 

[brycejones]

I knew, when I was 4 years old, that you don't get in front of vehicles. People getting hurt because they stand in front of vehicles is their own damn fault. Protest all you want, and I support their cause, but getting in the road is just asking for it.

Old fucker blames victim film at 11 again.

 

[Paladin3]

So are you now arguing for removal of gun ownership? Or just more acceptable losses?

No, I'm arguing that you have gone into troll mode, because that's note even close to what I said.

 

[brycejones]

Anyone have a justification for muting their mics after firing their guns? That smells of coverup.

They didn’t want the man’s family to hear his pain.

 

[ch33zw1z]

No, I'm arguing that you have gone into troll mode, because that's note even close to what I said.

So it's acceptable losses when cops gun down people, because they *might* have hand a gun/phone, and *might* have been guilty of a crime/no crime.

That's fine if you feel that way. Just own it.

Just be mindful of the power and precedent it sets for SOP of LEO's.

 

[Paladin3]

They didn’t want the man’s family to hear his pain.

I didn't hear the mics get muted, but loud noises like gunshots will cause a mike to reduce it relative sensitivity until the loud noises subside. When the crowd roars it is common to not be able to hear the announcer's voice for a bit.

 

[Paladin3]

So it's acceptable losses when cops gun down people, because they *might* have hand a gun/phone, and *might* have been guilty of a crime/no crime.

That's fine if you feel that way. Just own it.

Just be mindful of the power and precedent it sets for SOP of LEO's.

Due process. Just because that's the way you want to see the incident doesn't mean you are correct or a judge and jury will agree with you.

And if you had been one of those cops and believed he had a gun in his hand as he turned towards you, you know you would have fired too.

 

[mikeymikec]

Once an officer believes a gun is being pointed at him, what other actions does he have to defend himself? What other last resort should he use? Wait for the suspect to get the first shot off?

I'm sure once in a while it would have good results because the office was mistaken. Most of the time you'd have a potentially dead officer. I'm sure that would be so much better in your mind?

Again, context. A guy is believed to have been breaking windows. 1) not an offence involving a gun, 2) running and hiding from police, 3) no known prior offences involving firearms. It might have been a gun, a phone or logically something that isn't a gun that someone might use to break a window. I don't think that is a situation demanding the use of a firearm as a first resort, do you? He could be their suspect, but that's not necessarily a given either. Successfully scaring the crap out of someone in the dark is not a fair reason to shoot them.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Due process. Just because that's the way you want to see the incident doesn't mean you are correct or a judge and jury will agree with you.

And if you had been one of those cops and believed he had a gun in his hand as he turned towards you, you know you would have fired too.

Since I'm not an LEO, and never had any LEO training, it's impossible to say what I would've done.

By your own reply, I can safely determine your ok with LEO's determining guilt in the heat of the moment, and this is just another acceptable loss.

 

[HomerJS]

I didn't hear the mics get muted, but loud noises like gunshots will cause a mike to reduce it relative sensitivity until the loud noises subside. When the crowd roars it is common to not be able to hear the announcer's voice for a bit.

About seven minutes after Sacramento police fatally shot an unarmed black man in his grandmother's backyard last week, officers were instructed to mute their body cameras.

The Sacramento Police Department on Wednesday released two body camera videos, the 911 call, the helicopter footage and radio traffic from the shooting.
In both videos, an officer can be heard saying, "Hey, mute." Directly after, the video goes silent and officers talk among themselves.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/25/us/sacramento-shooting-body-camera/index.html

 

[brycejones]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/25/us/sacramento-shooting-body-camera/index.html

That's just a delayed reaction from the gun shots. The software is very slow at adapting.

 

[HomerJS]

That's just a delayed reaction from the gun shots. The software is very slow at adapting.

There was an order given to mute. Confirmed by police chief

Why the officers muted their body cameras remains unclear. Police Chief Daniel Hahn said last week that he could not explain it. He said there were "various reasons" why officers would turn off their cameras' audio, but he would not say if the Clark shooting was one of them.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ers-who-shot-stephon-clark-mute-their-n860196

 

[brycejones]

There was an order given to mute. Confirmed by police chief

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ers-who-shot-stephon-clark-mute-their-n860196

I was poking fun at Paladin's knowledge free posting.

 

[zinfamous]

I knew, when I was 4 years old, that you don't get in front of vehicles. People getting hurt because they stand in front of vehicles is their own damn fault. Protest all you want, and I support their cause, but getting in the road is just asking for it.

oh

 

[umbrella39]

Didn't take long for a nutthugger to show up...

I'm starting to think that some people really believe that humans pose bigger threats to cops in 2018 than they did 40 years ago.

Same perps, same crimes, different millennial cops...

In this day and age EVERYONE has a cellphone. Cops need to be trained better to distinguish the difference between one and a gun.

Cops ALSO need to be held to a higher standard and NOT just always get to say OOPS, we thought we saw a gun. That is getting very old. Especially to all the people who have lost loved ones to bad shoots...

 

[soundforbjt]

I didn't hear the mics get muted, but loud noises like gunshots will cause a mike to reduce it relative sensitivity until the loud noises subside. When the crowd roars it is common to not be able to hear the announcer's voice for a bit.

Now you're doing what some of pro-gun people claim to dislike about non-gun owners, talking about something you have no knowledge about...audio and how microphones work.

 

[jackstar7]

Better safe than dead, I say. I'm sure you would do exactly the same if you were a cop and thought someone was pointing a weapon at you. Han shot first, as would any thinking individual if they believed a gun was pointed at them.

It doesn't matter if it actually turns out there was no gun. It only matters if the officer reasonably believed it was a gun, which a judge and jury decide.

I'm starting to believe a lot of folks would like to see cops forced to wait until they got hit with the first bullet or at least shot at before they returned fire.

So to protect and serve doesn't mean anything anymore. That's a shame.

Hard to imagine how opinion of cops in general has also become so polarized. Lots of people think they are "worth" more than average citizens. That's a shame.

 

[jackstar7]

Anyone have a justification for muting their mics after firing their guns? That smells of coverup.

I believe this has to do with the rights of the officers as soon as they have engaged, because until cleared, they are technically a suspect. Something I read about that.

 

[bshole]

Didn't take long for a nutthugger to show up...

I'm starting to think that some people really believe that humans pose bigger threats to cops in 2018 than they did 40 years ago.

Same perps, same crimes, different millennial cops...

In this day and age EVERYONE has a cellphone. Cops need to be trained better to distinguish the difference between one and a gun.

Cops ALSO need to be held to a higher standard and NOT just always get to say OOPS, we thought we saw a gun. That is getting very old. Especially to all the people who have lost loved ones to bad shoots...

In 2016, there were 143 cops shot and killed vs 987 perps shot and killed by cops in the entire country. For context, there were 141 murders in Milwaukee for the same year and 350+ fatal opioid overdoses.

Not sure of the context of this particular incident. Is there any footage of the perps hand during the incident? Did he point the camera at the cops?

My own police department has been EXTREMELY helpful to me lately and I am grateful to them. Their level of service sort of changed my mind about cops in general.

 

[umbrella39]

I work in a level 1 trauma center ER. I see, speak to, have lunch with cops every day I work. I had one stand up in my wedding years ago and go hunting with many guys including cops. There are good cops and bad ones just like there are good docs and bad one. There are accidents and mistakes in every profession. Whether this one is remains to be seen. But to the ones that keep having to live through this tragedies, I don't know how any of that offers any solace to the family and friends... If cops keep killing unarmed black men, relations will continue to get worse.

 

[bshole]

A nurse just got fired for piping in on social media. Most intelligent people know enough not to post political stuff on their facebook, apparently this woman didn't. Good luck finding another job.

“Yeah but he was running from the police jumping over fences and breaking in peoples houses…why run??!!! He deserved it for being stupid,” Linthicum wrote in a comment on a post about Clark’s March 18 death, the paper reported.

Linthicum’s comment was spotted by activist Christina Arechiga, who then circulated it on social media.

“This woman works in labor and delivery – how can we trust her with our black and brown babies?” Arechiga wrote.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/31/nurse-sacked-for-saying-stephon-clark-deserved-to-be-killed-by-cops/

 

[jackstar7]

It's all the "good cops" that don't speak up and shove out the bad ones.

For all the people who talk about how teachers protect bad teachers, I think cops are far worse about this issue and COPS HAVE GUNS.

 

[Lanyap]

No peaceful protester is asking to get hit by a car driven by a police officer.

A tank stopped for a protester once. This cop needs to see trial.

The protesters were not peaceful. From your link.

Video of the incident showed protesters surround two sheriff's vehicles with their lights and sirens on. Officers warned protesters to move four times before the two vehicles drove forward. The first sheriff's vehicle drove off before the second sheriff's vehicle clipped the protester with its front right fender. The woman is sent tumbling to the ground before being surrounded by other protesters and later emergency services personnel. The vehicle that struck the protester continued driving.

Sgt. Shaun Hampton, sheriff's spokesman, said in a release that protesters were "yelling while pounding and kicking the vehicles' exterior."

"During the incident, the Sheriff’s Department vehicle sustained scratches, dents, and a shattered rear window," Hampton wrote in the release. "The damage to the vehicle was not a result of the collision involving the pedestrian but was caused by vandals in the crowd."

 

[Darwin333]

It seems to me that if the official autopsy exonerates the LEO's , it won't matter to those who have an anti-cop agenda and those who have sympathy for the victim for one reason or another. The first thought in their minds will probably be that the fix was in for the cops, that the "real autopsy results" showed the cops were criminally at fault but will never be revealed to the public.

Exonerated for shooting an unarmed man 20 times...

And to flip it around, there is a 95% chance that even if the officers are at fault no charges will be filed and if by some wild chance one or more gets charged there is a 95% chance they won't be found guilty even if there is overwhelming proof of their guilt.