Stephon Clark was shot 7 times in the back

[Chaotic42]

A nurse just got fired for piping in on social media. Most intelligent people know enough not to post political stuff on their facebook, apparently this woman didn't. Good luck finding another job.



https://nypost.com/2018/03/31/nurse-sacked-for-saying-stephon-clark-deserved-to-be-killed-by-cops/

Yep. Just stick to sports, memes, and pics of the kids/pets.

 

[Lanyap]

Again, context. A guy is believed to have been breaking windows. 1) not an offence involving a gun, 2) running and hiding from police, 3) no known prior offences involving firearms. It might have been a gun, a phone or logically something that isn't a gun that someone might use to break a window. I don't think that is a situation demanding the use of a firearm as a first resort, do you? He could be their suspect, but that's not necessarily a given either. Successfully scaring the crap out of someone in the dark is not a fair reason to shoot them.

Is it me or does it seem like Clark and some others who have been killed by police recently put themselves in these dangerous situations. I read where Clark was on probation for robbery but could not find out if it was armed robbery. Either way, the cops did not know who he was. Why was he out breaking into cars and houses at night? Did he resist and run because he was afraid to go back to jail?

I was reading about the guy who was killed in Baton Rouge recently. He was threatening people with a gun outside of a convenience store. When the police arrived after being called about a "man a with a gun" he resisted arrest and was shot and killed. It turned out he was a convicted felon who should not have had a gun. Did he resist because he knew he was going back to jail?

Another recent example is where the passenger of a car pulled over for a routine stop kept reaching for something in the back seat area and when he didn't obey the cop's order to stop and the cop saw a gun, he shot and killed the passenger. Not too many details on that one.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/north-carolina-officer-shoots-kills-man-traffic-stop-54147368

 

[jackstar7]

The protesters were not peaceful. From your link.

They also were not armed nor in a car.

But keep on defending someone who fled the scene.

 

[BoomerD]

Never bring a cell phone to a gun fight?

 

[Darwin333]

Training says to defend yourself and don't die. I'm sure that's exactly what you would do.

You seem to think cops want to shoot someone with a cell phone and basically end their career, lose everything and jeopardize their freedom.

That happens absurdly rarely. Generally at worst, and again this is very rare, they might lose their jobs. Even then they are often hired by a different department.

 

[Darwin333]

Due process. Just because that's the way you want to see the incident doesn't mean you are correct or a judge and jury will agree with you.

And if you had been one of those cops and believed he had a gun in his hand as he turned towards you, you know you would have fired too.

If I wasn't a cop and in that exact same situation, guy running from the cops and all, I'd be facing charges.

 

[mikeymikec]

Is it me or does it seem like Clark and some others who have been killed by police recently put themselves in these dangerous situations. I read where Clark was on probation for robbery but could not find out if it was armed robbery. Either way, the cops did not know who he was. Why was he out breaking into cars and houses at night? Did he resist and run because he was afraid to go back to jail?

I was reading about the guy who was killed in Baton Rouge recently. He was threatening people with a gun outside of a convenience store. When the police arrived after being called about a "man a with a gun" he resisted arrest and was shot and killed. It turned out he was a convicted felon who should not have had a gun. Did he resist because he knew he was going back to jail?

Another recent example is where the passenger of a car pulled over for a routine stop kept reaching for something in the back seat area and when he didn't obey the cop's order to stop and the cop saw a gun, he shot and killed the passenger. Not too many details on that one.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/north-carolina-officer-shoots-kills-man-traffic-stop-54147368

I'm reading this as a general vague smear with no overall point to make. All your other points are irrelevant for the reason you already pointed out: They were after an unidentified suspect. The person they killed could easily have been a kid who is trying to get home as surrepticiously as possible because they were grounded, or quietly trying to meet up with a girlfriend.

Why were their guns even drawn.

 

[Darwin333]

In 2016, there were 143 cops shot and killed vs 987 perps shot and killed by cops in the entire country. For context, there were 141 murders in Milwaukee for the same year and 350+ fatal opioid overdoses.

Not sure of the context of this particular incident. Is there any footage of the perps hand during the incident? Did he point the camera at the cops?

My own police department has been EXTREMELY helpful to me lately and I am grateful to them. Their level of service sort of changed my mind about cops in general.

Not sure where you are getting your info but in 2016 there were 61 cops killed with firearms, in 2015 it was 41 killed with firearms.

 

[dainthomas]

Better safe than dead, I say. I'm sure you would do exactly the same if you were a cop and thought someone was pointing a weapon at you. Han shot first, as would any thinking individual if they believed a gun was pointed at them.

It doesn't matter if it actually turns out there was no gun. It only matters if the officer reasonably believed it was a gun, which a judge and jury decide.

I'm starting to believe a lot of folks would like to see cops forced to wait until they got hit with the first bullet or at least shot at before they returned fire.

Being a police officer is FAR from one of the most dangerous jobs out there. It seems like American police are trained to overreact to any slight perceived threat, and when someone ends up dead for no reason, they use their (flawed) training as cover.

There has to be a reason why similar situations in other countries are far less likely to result in someone getting shot.

 

[Lanyap]

They also were not armed nor in a car.

But keep on defending someone who fled the scene.

How do you know that someone in the protest group was not armed? You don't - neither did the cop.

What would you do if you were the cop in this situation?

 

[Lanyap]

I'm reading this as a general vague smear with no overall point to make. All your other points are irrelevant for the reason you already pointed out: They were after an unidentified suspect. The person they killed could easily have been a kid who is trying to get home as surrepticiously as possible because they were grounded, or quietly trying to meet up with a girlfriend.

Why were their guns even drawn.

You mean the grounded kid who was breaking into cars and houses on his way home after hooking up with his girlfriend?

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article206055609.html

Police arrived at the 7500 block of 29th Street at about 9:18 p.m. Sunday, responding to a 911 call that a man was breaking into vehicles, according to the department. A Sacramento County Sheriff's Department helicopter had also responded.

Deputies in the helicopter reported seeing a man armed with a "tool bar" in a nearby backyard and began to direct ground officers to that location.

The airborne deputies said they saw the man use the "tool bar" to break a window, which police later said was the rear sliding glass door in an occupied home on the 7500 block of 29th Street.

Police said that after seeing Clark break Wong's window, the helicopter deputies observed him running south, where he jumped a fence into his grandparents' yard adjacent to Wong's house. He headed toward the front of the property, along the way looking into another car, police said.

Also in the same article. So he did have a criminal history of possessing a firearm even though police did not know that at the time.

A search of Sacramento Superior Court records found four related cases for a Stephan Alonzo Clark. The most recent were two felony counts of domestic abuse, to which Clark – who preferred to go by the name Stephon – pleaded guilty and agreed to complete a treatment program. The court record also shows a 2008 robbery charge, and charges in 2013 for possession of a firearm and possession of a controlled substance.

This may be why their guns were drawn.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-stephon-clark-profile-20180328-story.html

A Sacramento native, he lived in a rough neighborhood known not only for crime but also for tense relations with police, said residents and civil rights leaders
.

 

[trenchfoot]

Exonerated for shooting an unarmed man 20 times...

And to flip it around, there is a 95% chance that even if the officers are at fault no charges will be filed and if by some wild chance one or more gets charged there is a 95% chance they won't be found guilty even if there is overwhelming proof of their guilt.

Agreed. Such is the way of things.

As an aside, most every time I see clips of cops shooting a suspect that immediately gets controversial in one way or another, the suspect is in the act of resisting arrest. I then wonder why the logic of "if you don't want to get shot, cooperate and comply with the instructions the LEO is giving you" gets tossed aside in favor of "resist with all my might until I am forcibly unable to". Logically, it just doesn't make sense as far as gambling with one's own life for the sake of "exercising my rights".

Not arguing in favor of either, just seeing things from the outside in.

 

[Lanyap]

I was researching the doctor who performed the private autopsy. He was the doctor who pushed the NFL into acknowledging that brain damage from concussions was causing a lot of problems with players and killing them as they got older. He also has a lot of experience as a forensic pathologist which makes me wonder why his autopsy report was so basic and missing a lot of important information. Was it intentional to incite protesters?

 

[esquared]

I was researching the doctor who performed the private autopsy. He was the doctor who pushed the NFL into acknowledging that brain damage from concussions was causing a lot of problems with players and killing them as they got older. He also has a lot of experience as a forensic pathologist which makes me wonder why his autopsy report was so basic and missing a lot of important information. Was it intentional to incite protesters?

You have problems dude.

1)You're trying to make the cops victims here as they again, shot an unarmed, young black man.
2) Now you have your tin foil hat on trying to smear the examiner with your insane speculation.
(Yes I already knew about Dr Amalu and his NFL concussion/CTE background).

Do you ever get tired of carrying those waterpails for trump and the cops?

 

[Darwin333]

Agreed. Such is the way of things.

As an aside, most every time I see clips of cops shooting a suspect that immediately gets controversial in one way or another, the suspect is in the act of resisting arrest. I then wonder why the logic of "if you don't want to get shot, cooperate and comply with the instructions the LEO is giving you" gets tossed aside in favor of "resist with all my might until I am forcibly unable to". Logically, it just doesn't make sense as far as gambling with one's own life for the sake of "exercising my rights".

Not arguing in favor of either, just seeing things from the outside in.

I can't disagree with you there. If cops are screaming at me with guns drawn then I'm doing whatever the hell they tell me. The one stipulation to that would be that poor guy who the cops made play Simon says, if I was that poor bastard I would have just laid down on the floor with my arms out. Eventually they will get tired of screaming at me and come and cuff me. If they tried to charge me with anything I'd claim that I was scared and didn't understand what they wanted me to do. So understandably not wanting to get shot I did my best to ensure both mine and the officers safety.

 

[jackstar7]

How do you know that someone in the protest group was not armed? You don't - neither did the cop.

What would you do if you were the cop in this situation?

A) I'm too much of a jackass to be a cop.
B) If I somehow were a cop, I'd know my job is to deescalate things and to not expect people react positively to my presence in that context.
C) Also, assuming that people are armed is exactly how this starts, so maybe they need to dial it down, and push for gun control, so they can stop being so damn scared on the job.

 

[mikeymikec]

You mean the grounded kid who was breaking into cars and houses on his way home after hooking up with his girlfriend?

Also in the same article. So he did have a criminal history of possessing a firearm even though police did not know that at the time.

You've already logically torpedoed your own argument when you admitted that the police didn't know whom they were after, so logically this is all meaningless.

This may be why their guns were drawn.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-stephon-clark-profile-20180328-story.html

Excellent! So there are tense relations already, obviously they should go in guns glazing!

 

[Alpha One Seven]

Police are trained to only fire to protect their lives or those of others and to empty the weapon upon opening fire, so it follows some shots could hit his back as he fell.
I wasn't there, and don't know, but it is possible.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

The autopsy showed 6 shots in the back. He turned his back and side to the officers as they fired, so that is where he was hit.
Why was he running around peoples back yards at night in the first place? I'd think the homeowners would be likely to shoot him for that, fearing for their lives and protecting their families from an unknown invader.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The autopsy showed 6 shots in the back. He turned his back and side to the officers as they fired, so that is where he was hit.
Why was he running around peoples back yards at night in the first place? I'd think the homeowners would be likely to shoot him for that, fearing for their lives and protecting their families from an unknown invader.

The police helicopter video explains the shots to the right side.

It was his grandparents house where the shooting took place.

 

[HomerJS]

This guy winds up dead. Somehow the guy who actually killed 17 students in Florida managed to make it to the police station unharmed. In the Florida case they knew the suspect shot students.

 

[interchange]

This guy winds up dead. Somehow the guy who actually killed 17 students in Florida managed to make it to the police station unharmed. In the Florida case they knew the suspect shot students.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-82-minutes-florida-shooting-20180215-story.html

Scroll to the bottom to see the circumstances of his arrest.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Slippery slope there pal. What's my training say to do?

My police training says that level 5 deadly force is a LAST RESORT!

 

[bshole]

This guy winds up dead. Somehow the guy who actually killed 17 students in Florida managed to make it to the police station unharmed. In the Florida case they knew the suspect shot students.

If you think anybody is happy the killer in Florida is still alive, you would be wrong. When white criminals are killed by cops, white people in general don't really give a shit. If this kid had been white, I doubt people would care much that he was killed.

I myself admit to having a bias against people who are killed in the midst of a crime spree. I know that I am completely incorrect in this bias but for whatever reason I can't get over my emotional feeling that the person engaged in a crime spree is an objectively bad person who is harming society. This bias makes me much less likely to view that person's death as a tragedy.

 

[Paratus]

How do you know that someone in the protest group was not armed? You don't - neither did the cop.

What would you do if you were the cop in this situation?

I like this argument. Let’s take it too it’s logical end:

How do you know that someone in the protest group was not armed? You don't - neither did the cop.

What would you do if you were the cop in this situation?

How do we know you weren’t armed when they pulled you over for a traffic stop. We don’t neither do the cops. Better judged by 12 then carried by 6.

How do we know your teen child who was out at night wasn’t the one vandalizing the park and isn’t armed. We don’t and neither do the cops. Better judged by 12 then carried by 6...

I understand you identify with the police and not the citizens who are shot.

I don’t want my police to be on a hair trigger I want my police force to show restraint. I want every pull of the trigger (absolutely necessary or not) to be treated as a failure to protect and serve. For those failures to be analyzed for improvements so they don’t happen again.

Not to treat every bullet fired as an automatic good shoot as you are want to do.