State of the Union 2024

[[DHT]Osiris]

There is no more threat of nuclear war with Russian than there has been in the last 30 years.

I've got a hard time believing that. There was literally just a story on how we were at the actual brink just a year ago.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/09/politics/us-prepared-rigorously-potential-russian-nuclear-strike-ukraine/index.html

I can all but guarantee that was based on actionable intel, and probably only deterred by some last minute politicking. There's no reason we'd be 'preparing' for something 2 years in vs 2 days in.

 

[nakedfrog]

Why don't you ask them if they'd like their 2019 wages back? No one says they are doing great, but they are doing better than before.

They'd probably ask if they got their 2019 rent prices back too. No, they aren't doing any better.

 

[Brainonska511]

I don't know why people keep stupidly pointing to the president/Federal government re: housing. Look no further than your NIMBY state and local governments for blocking more housing. They're the ones that control land use.

 

[HomerJS]

Is katie the one who was doing the rebuttal? Sorry, most of this thread has been regarding economic stuff so I wasn't mentally there for a 'is the world a shitshow compared to Trump' discussion.

Katie gave that emotional breathy rebuttal.

 

[MrSquished]

I don't know why people keep stupidly pointing to the president/Federal government re: housing. Look no further than your NIMBY state and local governments for blocking more housing. They're the ones that control land use.

Welcome to the real world. We are talking about the masses of voters, do you think they know how housing policy really works? Just in case some people forgot, those are the people we have to get out to vote this fall - so maybe it would be smart to talk about the issues they are facing without being out of touch and cavalier about the greatest economy ever.

Man it's like some Dems think people vote logically based on being very informed and understanding of the socio-political systems we have in place, but never on feelings and actual experiences. If that were true we wouldn't have to worry about the Republican party at all - but GUESS WHAT! That's not how it works.

 

[fskimospy]

They'd probably ask if they got their 2019 rent prices back too. No, they aren't doing any better.

Low-wage workers have seen historically fast real wage growth in the pandemic business cycle: Policy investments translate into better opportunities for the lowest-paid workers

What this report finds: Between 2019 and 2022, low-wage workers experienced historically fast real wage growth. The 10th percentile real hourly wage grew 9.0% over the three-year period. This tremendous real wage growth at the lower end of the wage distribution was exceptional, significantly...

www.epi.org

Between 2019 and 2022, low-wage workers experienced historically fast real wage growth. The 10th percentile real hourly wage grew 9.0% over the three-year period. This tremendous real wage growth at the lower end of the wage distribution was exceptional, significantly faster than in any other business cycle peak since 1979.

You guys are just totally delusional. You need to get in touch with the real world.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Low-wage workers have seen historically fast real wage growth in the pandemic business cycle: Policy investments translate into better opportunities for the lowest-paid workers

What this report finds: Between 2019 and 2022, low-wage workers experienced historically fast real wage growth. The 10th percentile real hourly wage grew 9.0% over the three-year period. This tremendous real wage growth at the lower end of the wage distribution was exceptional, significantly...

www.epi.org

You guys are just totally delusional. You need to get in touch with the real world.

And the consumer prices rose more than that during the same timeframe.

US Consumer Price Index YoY (Monthly) - United States - His…

View monthly updates and historical trends for US Consumer Price Index YoY. from United States. Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics. Track economic data wi…

ycharts.com

 

[fskimospy]

And the consumer prices rose more than that during the same timeframe.

US Consumer Price Index YoY (Monthly) - United States - His…

View monthly updates and historical trends for US Consumer Price Index YoY. from United States. Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics. Track economic data wi…

ycharts.com

No they did not. Again, this is REAL WAGES, which account for inflation.

Again, you guys are in some weird fantasy land.

 

[dank69]

No they did not. Again, this is REAL WAGES, which account for inflation.

Again, you guys are in some weird fantasy land.

From your link:
"Despite historic wage growth, low-wage workers continue to suffer from grossly inadequate wages"

and:
"The very top continues to amass larger shares of the overall wage pie"

 

[Brainonska511]

Welcome to the real world. We are talking about the masses of voters, do you think they know how housing policy really works? Just in case some people forgot, those are the people we have to get out to vote this fall - so maybe it would be smart to talk about the issues they are facing without being out of touch and cavalier about the greatest economy ever.

Man it's like some Dems think people vote logically based on being very informed and understanding of the socio-political systems we have in place, but never on feelings and actual experiences. If that were true we wouldn't have to worry about the Republican party at all - but GUESS WHAT! That's not how it works.

Great strategy champ - hyper focused on the negative things. Most people are poorly informed, and get their opinions from media and social channels, so playing up that angle is just going to reinforce the crap those channels already feed them. It's time to play up the good things: wages are up, unemployment is down, retirement accounts should be doing well, student debt programs are fixed so that people are actually getting forgiveness or having lower payments, and inflation is down. These are all good things.

Take the win, play up the good things, and campaign on building on these positive things and to avoid backsliding because orange man is indeed bad.

 

[fskimospy]

From your link:
"Despite historic wage growth, low-wage workers continue to suffer from grossly inadequate wages"

You're arguing against me using my own point again.

 

[MrSquished]

Great strategy champ - hyper focused on the negative things. Most people are poorly informed, and get their opinions from media and social channels, so playing up that angle is just going to reinforce the crap those channels already feed them. It's time to play up the good things: wages are up, unemployment is down, retirement accounts should be doing well, student debt programs are fixed so that people are actually getting forgiveness or having lower payments, and inflation is down. These are all good things.

Take the win, play up the good things, and campaign on building on these positive things and to avoid backsliding because orange man is indeed bad.

Holy shit I know you've been reading this thread, and If this is what you got from my post and posts, then you're clueless. It's just getting ridiculous you people. The ones that have no idea how to message. I've never said go negative you are just full of shit at this point.

 

[nakedfrog]

Low-wage workers have seen historically fast real wage growth in the pandemic business cycle: Policy investments translate into better opportunities for the lowest-paid workers

What this report finds: Between 2019 and 2022, low-wage workers experienced historically fast real wage growth. The 10th percentile real hourly wage grew 9.0% over the three-year period. This tremendous real wage growth at the lower end of the wage distribution was exceptional, significantly...

www.epi.org

You guys are just totally delusional. You need to get in touch with the real world.

My input is based on what I hear from actual low wage workers, but I guess I'll try harder to get in touch with the real world?

 

[fskimospy]

My input is based on what I hear from actual low wage workers, but I guess I'll try harder to get in touch with the real world?

You should definitely try harder to get in touch with the real world. Your anecdotes have made you think real wages for low wage workers have either stagnated or outright declined when they have in fact increased at a faster rate at any time in close to a half century.

When your view of what's happening in the real world is that radically wrong you should take a step back and try to figure out how you got so out of touch.

 

[K1052]

I don't think the Biden position is that they've solved every systemic long term economic issue facing the nation, mostly that they've done way better post-COVID than every other country on the planet (which is true) and that's worth some credit (also true).

If people think the economy is not good now wait till Trump gets ahold of it again.

 

[dank69]

You're arguing against me using my own point again.

I'm not arguing against you. Just pointing out that even though real wage growth is up that there are still huge problems for a lot of people. You don't have to make everything into a war between us.

 

[nakedfrog]

You should definitely try harder to get in touch with the real world. Your anecdotes have made you think real wages for low wage workers have either stagnated or outright declined when they have in fact increased at a faster rate at any time in close to a half century.

When your view of what's happening in the real world is that radically wrong you should take a step back and try to figure out how you got so out of touch.

Back at you, boss 👍

 

[Jaskalas]

You should definitely try harder to get in touch with the real world. Your anecdotes have made you think real wages for low wage workers have either stagnated or outright declined when they have in fact increased at a faster rate at any time in close to a half century.

When your view of what's happening in the real world is that radically wrong you should take a step back and try to figure out how you got so out of touch.

"Poor people are richer than ever" is certainly not something I come across... outside of you and the data you use to make that claim.
A simple explanation is that the very narrow set of data... isn't accurate.
It is a quandary to determine which is real and which is false.

 

[fskimospy]

Back at you, boss 👍

Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.
-Isaac Asimov

Seems like a useful quote here. I provide you with rigorous research to back up my opinion and you are like 'but I talked to some poor people'.

 

[fskimospy]

"Poor people are richer than ever" is certainly not something I come across... outside of you and the data you use to make that claim.

A good friend of mine runs HR for a chain of Buger Kings (ew) in North Carolina and she can definitely attest to the fact that their wage costs have gone up at a far faster rate than inflation.

I think the easiest way to think about it using your own experience is I bet in the last few years you saw SHITLOADS of 'help wanted' signs outside of fast food places, often offering signing bonuses, etc. The reason for that was they were desperate to find workers. If you're desperate for workers what do you do in the end? Raise wages, and that's what happened.

 

[JD50]

My input is based on what I hear from actual low wage workers, but I guess I'll try harder to get in touch with the real world?

Cool, and millions of Republicans are convinced that 2020 was the best year of the lives because inflation was low and gas was cheap. The year no one could leave their house, unemployment was through the roof, hundreds of thousands of people were dying from covid, and you couldn't even get a roll of toilet paper from the grocery store.

Maybe ya'll should stop letting Republicans control the narrative?

 

[K1052]

A good friend of mine runs HR for a chain of Buger Kings (ew) in North Carolina and she can definitely attest to the fact that their wage costs have gone up at a far faster rate than inflation.

I think the easiest way to think about it using your own experience is I bet in the last few years you saw SHITLOADS of 'help wanted' signs outside of fast food places, often offering signing bonuses, etc. The reason for that was they were desperate to find workers. If you're desperate for workers what do you do in the end? Raise wages, and that's what happened.

I have a lot of family in Florida and they think the economy is bad because their home insurance rates have skyrocketed. Price increases in various services often for more localized reasons are getting translated into pessimism about the broader economy.

 

[Jaskalas]

A good friend of mine runs HR for a chain of Buger Kings (ew) in North Carolina and she can definitely attest to the fact that their wage costs have gone up at a far faster rate than inflation.

Your argument, if I am not mistaken, was that people have more money even after costs are accounted for. Not just inflation. Meaning this anecdote may not suffice for the argument at large.

 

[Brainonska511]

Holy shit I know you've been reading this thread, and If this is what you got from my post and posts, then you're clueless. It's just getting ridiculous you people. The ones that have no idea how to message. I've never said go negative you are just full of shit at this point.

I have been reading this thread. It's filled with people denying the economy is great and wages are up.

 

[fskimospy]

Your argument, if I am not mistaken, was that people have more money even after costs are accounted for. Not just inflation. Meaning this anecdote may not suffice for the argument at large.

Why would wage costs for low wage employers rising faster than inflation not be evidence of low wage workers having more money after inflation?

There are only two ways for that to happen:
1) have more total workers (they actually had fewer, which was of course the problem) or
2) be paying those workers more (what actually happened)

I think at this point the evidence is so overwhelming I'm not even sure why people are arguing it. What more would it take to convince people?