State of the Union 2024

[dank69]

Have you read much of this thread? There are multiple people saying the economy was better under Trump. I don't think that is a winning message.

Did they claim the economy was better under Trump or that certain metrics were better pre-pandemic? I think I made the latter claim, which is true for median HH income, at least according to the data I could find. That doesn't mean I think Trump was better for the economy or even median income.

This thread is packed with people calming that democrats shouldn't be talking about the good economic data because they economy isn't good for everyone. So if dems aren't allowed to run on the economy is doing better/well, what is the alternative? "The economy today sucks worse than 2019, re-elect me so it can keep sucking?" Seriously read what other wrote.

When a big chunk of the democratic party is out there saying the economy sucks, when pretty much all data says otherwise, it make it much harder to win.

Meanwhile, there were unemployed people willing to attack congress because of "how great Trump had made the economy."

Did people claim Democrats shouldn't talk about good economic data or did they claim that calling this the best economy of our lifetimes will rub a lot of people the wrong way? A lot of metrics paint that picture, especially when dealing with averages instead of medians, but there are also a lot of metrics that are really bad. Take income inequality for example. That metric is in really bad territory.

There is an ocean between "the economy is doing fantastic" and "the economy today sucks worse than 2019."

 

[dank69]

Here @dank69, since you missed these early posts. There are a lot more bashing the economy and "how dare you say the economy is good" posts, maybe you should read them before you keep attacking @fskimospy with his own point.

I didn't miss any posts. I read every single one. Not saying I can remember every one, just that I read them. I recognize all of those quotes. I don't know how accurate Steve's numbers are but all their general sentiments on the state of the economy are accurate. You guys realize that our billionaires' success skew the fucking shit out of our average incomes, right? You need to deal with median incomes before you start stoking each other's boners over how great our economy is doing.

Housing market is fucked. Tuition is fucked. Healthcare is fucked. Food is great though, as long as you're in the top 70% or so. 50-70% food is probably a bit more stress inducing if I had to guess. Under 50% are probably getting close to eating YOU if you try to tell them how great our economy is. Super happy that average incomes are up a few percent or something. I just blew myself.

 

[fskimospy]

I didn't miss any posts. I read every single one. Not saying I can remember every one, just that I read them. I recognize all of those quotes. I don't know how accurate Steve's numbers are but all their general sentiments on the state of the economy are accurate. You guys realize that our billionaires' success skew the fucking shit out of our average incomes, right? You need to deal with median incomes before you start stoking each other's boners over how great our economy is doing.

Housing market is fucked. Tuition is fucked. Healthcare is fucked. Food is great though, as long as you're in the top 70% or so. 50-70% food is probably a bit more stress inducing if I had to guess. Under 50% are probably getting close to eating YOU if you try to tell them how great our economy is. Super happy that average incomes are up a few percent or something. I just blew myself.

In this entire thread I’ve only used real median incomes. Early on you took me talking about ‘average Americans’ to mean ‘average income’ but that was just you misreading what I wrote.

Regardless, thank you for further proving my point.

 

[MrSquished]

Here @dank69, since you missed these early posts. There are a lot more bashing the economy and "how dare you say the economy is good" posts, maybe you should read them before you keep attacking @fskimospy with his own point.

If you haven't noticed, housing costs have by far exploded way faster than anything else has, and I posted the data to prove it. And while people's real wages started growing, which I never disagreed with, if you don't think we have a ways to go yet, you too are a moron. I have also said numerous times in this thread that Biden has done well, but we just have a shitload of a way to go, saying everything is so great now is not a good way to win an election. And that's what @fskimospy was sounding like. And I'm not the only one to call him out.

If you still think that is smart, then we have a huge difference of opinion, and you can join the ranks of people that don't know how to win an election at all.

As I stated, Steve is the only one who really said anything like @fskimospy was saying, and I have already called Steve out as the one poster who did. But other than that, he was just being absolutely clueless about reality, and really fucking stupid about how to win an election.

Good luck misprepresenting this entire long conversation.

Bigly said.

But then again, you posited that people have air conditioning now! So duh, be happy! I mean holy fuck.

 

[Xcobra]

Boy, this thread is a wild ride. Better than my olden days at six flags 😂

 

[dank69]

In this entire thread I’ve only used real median incomes. Early on you took me talking about ‘average Americans’ to mean ‘average income’ but that was just you misreading what I wrote.

Regardless, thank you for further proving my point.

Can you reiterate one more time exactly what your point is, just so there's no confusion?

 

[MrSquished]

Did they claim the economy was better under Trump or that certain metrics were better pre-pandemic? I think I made the latter claim, which is true for median HH income, at least according to the data I could find. That doesn't mean I think Trump was better for the economy or even median income.


Did people claim Democrats shouldn't talk about good economic data or did they claim that calling this the best economy of our lifetimes will rub a lot of people the wrong way? A lot of metrics paint that picture, especially when dealing with averages instead of medians, but there are also a lot of metrics that are really bad. Take income inequality for example. That metric is in really bad territory.

There is an ocean between "the economy is doing fantastic" and "the economy today sucks worse than 2019."

well said.

To me this has been plainly obvious this whole time, you put it in words quite succinctly.

I'm glad many Dems can call out the out of touch elitist messaging that a few here support.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

If you need me to quote the numerous posts here disputing that the economy is doing well I can?

This thread is literally documented proof of liberals arguing that the economy is bad.

Don't call me a liberal

 

[GodisanAtheist]

What the fuck is happening in this thread did Biden like activate sleepers or something with the SOTU?

 

[trenchfoot]

What the fuck is happening in this thread did Biden like activate sleepers or something with the SOTU?

As far as I'm concerned, I've been quietly learning a lot about our economy in this thread. The lively discourse is music to my ears.

 

[dank69]

I went back through the first few pages to refresh my memory...

Agreed, Trump would be worse than Biden in pretty much any metric imaginable. But the Democrats are nuts if they try to run on everything's great.

I thought this comment from Steve was spot on.

This is probably the best economy of our lifetimes.

I thought this comment was strange. I mean, we all know we have had some huge problems for decades now and those problems have been accelerating for the most part. I also thought it strange how Fskimospy did that fucking thing he does where he fixates on one point, ignoring all others and refusing to answer questions designed to probe the integrity of his position. Asking how someone could characterize our economy as the best of our lifetimes when the housing market is off the charts bad for anyone who doesn't already own a home is a valid challenge that deserves a response.

Real incomes are higher today than in 2019.

I just assumed this was true because I haven't known Fskimospy to make false claims. Maybe it is true but I can't find good data supporting it. I've found charts that cover the 80s through 2022. Those charts show real wages/incomes taking a substantial dive from 2019 to 2022. I'm sure it's possible we erased 3 years of losses in 2023 but I can't find data showing it.

Working class people have experienced the highest real wage gains in the last couple years.

Generally speaking white collar workers haven’t seen much of any wage growth but blue collar workers most definitely have.

I thought this is what people wanted?

The highest wage gains in the last couple of years... well they were negative from 2021 until sometime in 2023 so highest in the last couple years doesn't tell you much. It's good. Let's keep it going. Let's do better.

 

[Maxima1]

Can you reiterate one more time exactly what your point is, just so there's no confusion?

Page 3 - Wendy's, "dynamic pricing" and their subsequent "clarification"

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His point was here. It’s a pathetic one.

First, Fed minimum wage was $7.25 in 2009 so with inflation, it would be around ~$10, but that’s just a baseline. So, $15 for fast food workers in 2024 is just a few dollars thrown at them, haha.

A hot economy can’t solve income inequality as that puts pressure on all jobs, which is pretty evident.

NYC teachers get fat 20% pay hike in new, 5-year, $6.4 billion deal

Mayor Eric Adams and the city’s powerful teachers union agreed on a $6.4 billion deal, packed with pay hikes and signing bonuses for teachers.

nypost.com

Will higher pay lure more teachers? Bill aims to boost salaries 50% by 2030

Proposed legislation to attract and keep teachers in public schools would boost California teachers’s pay 50% by 2030.

www.mercurynews.com

Additionally, the Fed rate hikes are regressive.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714933876139700473

https://twitter.com/x/status/1589373112403255296

This thread is packed with people claiming that democrats shouldn't be talking about the good economic data because they economy isn't good for everyone. So if dems aren't allowed to run on the economy is doing better/well, what is the alternative? "The economy today sucks worse than 2019, re-elect me so it can keep sucking?" Seriously read what others wrote.



When a big chunk of the democratic party is out there saying the economy sucks, when pretty much all data says otherwise, it makes it much harder to win.



Meanwhile, there were unemployed people willing to attack congress because of "how great Trump had made the economy."

Why would they have to campaign that the economy sucks based on what people like Steve are saying about income inequality? They would be messaging about addressing income inequality.

 

[Maxima1]

What the fuck is happening in this thread did Biden like activate sleepers or something with the SOTU?

He said the economy sucked.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765935599104778574

well said.

To me this has been plainly obvious this whole time, you put it in words quite succinctly.

I'm glad many Dems can call out the out of touch elitist messaging that a few here support.

Let them eat cake.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765848475160199658

 

[esquared]

A lot of you called this.
Scarlett Johansson as Katy Britt on SNL.

I gotta say that they made Scarlett Johansson really look like her in real life. Clothes, kitchen and everything. Good job SNL

"Iam a wife, a mother, and the craziest bitch in the Target parking lot"

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

What the fuck is happening in this thread did Biden like activate sleepers or something with the SOTU?

It's easier to fully support something when it feels like you're on your heels from the alternative all the time. The SOTU gave us some breathing room from the abject terror of a second Trump presidency so I feel like I can be a little more discerning with my alternative. Permitting myself to criticize messaging surrounding our economy is my way of doing that.

 

[evident]

What the fuck is happening in this thread did Biden like activate sleepers or something with the SOTU?

Yes, he countered the bullshit right wing narrative that he's old and senile. and reminded all of his supporters and why most americans should be standing up for democracy and decency.

 

[K1052]

Yes, he countered the bullshit right wing narrative that he's old and senile. and reminded all of his supporters and why most americans should be standing up for democracy and decency.

He silenced doubts about his ability to the audience that matters the most right now: Democrats. The vibe shift in punditry is already palpable. This was a necessary step to shut down the "what if we replaced him at him convention" bullshit, end the bed wetting, and get everybody focused on the campaign. This confidence will also generate more cash which he's going to need.

 

[HomerJS]

Already the question is coming up are you better off than you were 3 years ago.

There are some things in 2018 that were better some were not. Your eggs were cheaper in 2018 however there are 1.1 million people who are not here that should have been to answer your question.

 

[HomerJS]

We’ve gone through the same pattern since Bill Clinton. Democrats turn over a great economy. Pubs give tax cuts to the rich balloon the deficit screw up the economy leaving it up to the next Democrat to fix.

Bush handed a great economy and a surplus to GW Bush

Bush hands over an economic meltdown to Barack Obama

Obama turns over a recovered good economy to Trump. Trump gives tax cut to rich and turns over a pandemic disaster to Biden

Biden has ushered in a recovery in every sense of the word. Economy, pandemic, and pushed through a good agenda, infrastructure, prescription drugs, cops act, etc.

Let’s see if voters finally remember the pattern

 

[feralkid]

We’ve gone through the same pattern since Bill Clinton. Democrats turn over a great economy. Pubs give tax cuts to the rich balloon the deficit screw up the economy leaving it up to the next Democrat to fix.

Bush handed a great economy and a surplus to GW Bush

Bush hands over an economic meltdown to Barack Obama

Obama turns over a recovered good economy to Trump. Trump gives tax cut to rich and turns over a pandemic disaster to Biden

Biden has ushered in a recovery in every sense of the word. Economy, pandemic, and pushed through a good agenda, infrastructure, prescription drugs, cops act, etc.

Let’s see if voters finally remember the pattern

You forgot Clinton.

 

[BoomerD]

We’ve gone through the same pattern since Bill Clinton. Democrats turn over a great economy. Pubs give tax cuts to the rich balloon the deficit screw up the economy leaving it up to the next Democrat to fix.

Bill Clinton handed a great economy and a surplus to GW Bush

Bush hands over an economic meltdown to Barack Obama

Obama turns over a recovered good economy to Trump. Trump gives tax cut to rich and turns over a pandemic disaster to Biden

Biden has ushered in a recovery in every sense of the word. Economy, pandemic, and pushed through a good agenda, infrastructure, prescription drugs, cops act, etc.

Let’s see if voters finally remember the pattern

Fixed that...

And, no. The voters almost NEVER remember...which is why we get stuck in this endless cycle.

 

[fskimospy]

We’ve gone through the same pattern since Bill Clinton. Democrats turn over a great economy. Pubs give tax cuts to the rich balloon the deficit screw up the economy leaving it up to the next Democrat to fix.

Bush handed a great economy and a surplus to GW Bush

Bush hands over an economic meltdown to Barack Obama

Obama turns over a recovered good economy to Trump. Trump gives tax cut to rich and turns over a pandemic disaster to Biden

Biden has ushered in a recovery in every sense of the word. Economy, pandemic, and pushed through a good agenda, infrastructure, prescription drugs, cops act, etc.

Let’s see if voters finally remember the pattern

What I find funny is Republicans always want to compare today to 2019, presumably based on the idea that the pandemic was out of everyone’s control and therefore Trump can’t be blamed.

1) while he couldn’t have stopped it he made it worse so he can absolutely be blamed.

2) all of the after effects of the pandemic like inflation should he blamed on Biden because reasons.

 

[feralkid]

The motto of republicans - ‘government doesn’t work - elect us and we’ll prove it’

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Already the question is coming up are you better off than you were 3 years ago.

There are some things in 2018 that were better some were not. Your eggs were cheaper in 2018 however there are 1.1 million people who are not here that should have been to answer your question.

Meh we had close to 1 million dead from COVID before the nazi left office but confederate states like Texas and Florida underreported early in the pandemic and called them pneumonia deaths, so 1.1 million is almost certainly a huge underestimate of Americans killed by COVID.

 

[BoomerD]

Meh we had close to 1 million dead from COVID before the nazi left office but confederate states like Texas and Florida underreported early in the pandemic and called them pneumonia deaths, so 1.1 million is almost certainly a huge underestimate of Americans killed by COVID.

but…but…but comorbidities!