State of the Union 2024

[Indus]

No. Most people are doing fine and can live how they want. No one would be doing fine under your shit poorly thought out plan.

Since when did you become a right wing apologist.. everyone's life is fine without abortion healthcare?

That's the thing I don't like about people here.. no one looks objectively at stuff like there will be massive tradeoffs and these people could be hurt but there's quite a massive upside and benefit too like we could really give 200 million Americans more rights and more healthcare.

Instead everyone is so eager to call each other names.

 

[manly]

LMAO I'm an online bully. Says guy whose views on migrants and Islam is awfully close to Viktor Orban's.

Legislation like a decree to split the US by red/blue state lines and fuck up every American’s life in innumerable and insurmountable ways? It’s you

Moving tens of millions of people around because it's hard winning elections. What could go wrong??

For fun just ask Indus about the shopping cart extortion rings run by illegals.

ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR????

 

[Indus]

Not to mention he is unwittingly doing Putin's work; dividing America.

No don't blame me.

I'm all for aid to Ukraine but we're not exactly in a position to give aid with the Republicans blocking aid are we?

Actually the better idea would be lets help Putin out by deporting all Republicans to Russia..

 

[Indus]

Moving tens of millions of people around because it's hard winning elections. What could go wrong??

Greece is happy, Turkey is happy in the long term picture no?

 

[repoman0]

Since when did you become a right wing apologist.. everyone's life is fine without abortion healthcare?

That's the thing I don't like about people here.. no one looks objectively at stuff like there will be massive tradeoffs and these people could be hurt but there's quite a massive upside and benefit too like we could really give 200 million Americans more rights and more healthcare.

Instead everyone is so eager to call each other names.

… while destroying the global financial system and economy, ceding the rest of the world to Russia and China whether they like it or not, causing mass starvation and death and a refugee crisis … jfc just think through it for two minutes and you’ll realize your ideas don’t even pass the most basic of sniff tests.

Healthcare and rights probably would cease to exist for anyone for a time. Good plan

 

[feralkid]

Greece is happy, Turkey is happy in the long term picture no?

No; their economies suck for the average citizen.

 

[Paratus]

You guys do realize that the absolute shittiness of certain red states is specifically to drive a “split”. Not a civil war split but a form of voter split.

By making the state shitty for LGBTQ, women and basically anyone not white male Christian and hopefully rich they can drive some of those voters out of the state.

With all the beneficial structural biases they have and voter suppression they do they are still in danger of being voted out. If they can drive another 1-2% of liberal voters out of the state because they don’t want to risk imprisonment for a miscarriage or the suicide of their gender fluid kid that’s another election or two they can stay in power.

 

[Indus]

You guys do realize that the absolute shittiness of certain red states is specifically to drive a “split”. Not a civil war split but a form of voter split.

By making the state shitty for LGBTQ, women and basically anyone not white male Christian and hopefully rich they can drive some of those voters out of the state.

With all the beneficial structural biases they have and voter suppression they do they are still in danger of being voted out. If they can drive another 1-2% of liberal voters out of the state because they don’t want to risk imprisonment for a miscarriage or the suicide of their gender fluid kid that’s another election or two they can stay in power.

I hadn't considered that.. but that conjecture seems legit.

 

[Zorba]

It is very clear that you are incredibly detached from the actual conditions of low wage earners, when you expect them to be happy about the extremely good news that their wage increases over the last few years outpaced inflation and want them to believe that the economy is doing great, because you used math to show how they're better off than low wages earners 70 years ago.

So I guess what I'm saying is: which one of us is misunderstanding things?

Why don't you ask them if they'd like their 2019 wages back? No one says they are doing great, but they are doing better than before.

 

[Zorba]

I think you're losing a grip on reality here and trying to imagine a utopia when the reality is.. 15 years after Obamacare.. a lot of states still haven't opted in and there are zero signs they're going to.

If that doesn't tell you you can't change them.. nothing will.

Ever hear the saying.. the more things change.. the more they stay the same!

There is a lot more to Obamacare than Medicaid expansion, which is the only thing states have to opt into.

 

[fskimospy]

Why don't you ask them if they'd like their 2019 wages back? No one says they are doing great, but they are doing better than before.

Stop being so out of touch by stating clearly observable reality. What you’re supposed to say is that nothing is better therefore you should keep voting for Democrats despite them making nothing better.

That’s how to win hearts and minds.

 

[kage69]

There's a saying.. no fort's walls are strong enough if they have a traitor inside.

It's beyond time for a national divorce and some moving on with our lives!

There's another saying, if you find yourself agreeing with MTG, you should seek professional help.

If magats hate democracy and don't want to be Americans anymore, fine, that's their call. They are more than welcome to pack up and GTFO. Brazil was popular with exiled confederates, and of course there's Russia. Careful how much money you take.

Split the country up to accommodate the mentally ill traitors who make up 30% of registered voters? Sacrifice our economy, defense and position in the world to make the christofascists happy? Uh, no. Not just no, go fuck yourself no.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

With all the beneficial structural biases they have and voter suppression they do they are still in danger of being voted out. If they can drive another 1-2% of liberal voters out of the state because they don’t want to risk imprisonment for a miscarriage or the suicide of their gender fluid kid that’s another election or two they can stay in power.

On the upside, if they keep it up eventually the population ratio will become untenable and the state will depopulate entirely over a generation or two.

 

[MrSquished]

Stop being so out of touch by stating clearly observable reality. What you’re supposed to say is that nothing is better therefore you should keep voting for Democrats despite them making nothing better.

That’s how to win hearts and minds.

here you go arguing against your made up arguments, nobody except maybe for Steve said nothing is better. You keep disagreeing with people that never said what you accuse them of saying. Imagine being such a narcissistic elitist you have to go around putting words in people's mouths so you can claim victory in an argument you are only having with yourself.

 

[kage69]

That is ANCIENT HISTORY.. ffs we can't even remember recent history that Russkies are not our friends!

Right?

It's not like a sizeable portion of the country follows some variety of ancient religion, using the contents of a very old "holy book" to guide themselves through modern day life. Being ancient isn't a problem, look who's running for office. Have you seen Chuck Grassely?

I think your standard wrt time may not be capricious, but it sure as hell sounds arbitrary.

 

[ivwshane]

You guys do realize that the absolute shittiness of certain red states is specifically to drive a “split”. Not a civil war split but a form of voter split.

By making the state shitty for LGBTQ, women and basically anyone not white male Christian and hopefully rich they can drive some of those voters out of the state.

With all the beneficial structural biases they have and voter suppression they do they are still in danger of being voted out. If they can drive another 1-2% of liberal voters out of the state because they don’t want to risk imprisonment for a miscarriage or the suicide of their gender fluid kid that’s another election or two they can stay in power.

Good god that’s sinister. Typically republicans publicly admit their nefarious plans or at least use projection but I’ve heard neither so call me skeptical.

 

[ivwshane]

On the upside, if they keep it up eventually the population ratio will become untenable and the state will depopulate entirely over a generation or two.

I’m not going to bother crunching the numbers but let’s they accomplish their goal. Wouldn’t that also cause them to lose seats in the house due to the population losses and cause “blue” states to gain seats? How many senate seats would change what party holds them? Would they be able to keep the senate? If not then their power gain would be moot as democrats would likely control the federal government and pass policies that would override the state and local laws.

 

[dank69]

Yes, this has been exactly my point the entire thread. It is BAD POLITICAL STRATEGY. If both democrats and republicans agree that the economy is terrible under democrats why would anyone vote for them?

God this shit is exhausting. Why does acknowledging that things aren't perfect automatically equate to everything is terrible to you? Why can't you just admit that the truth is somewhere in between great and terrible?

Nobody is saying Dems should run on a platform of everything is terrible. They should point out how most problems that are not being solved are a direct result of Republican obstructionism, however.

 

[fskimospy]

God this shit is exhausting. Why does acknowledging that things aren't perfect automatically equate to everything is terrible to you? Why can't you just admit that the truth is somewhere in between great and terrible?

Nobody is saying Dems should run on a platform of everything is terrible. They should point out how most problems that are not being solved are a direct result of Republican obstructionism, however.

It’s odd that you’re making my point for me and then saying I’m arguing against it. My point has always been that things have gotten better but there’s plenty of room for improvement.

Read this thread from the beginning and look at the absolute insanity people are engaging in to avoid admitting things have improved. Every possible excuse is pulled out to convince themselves the numbers are wrong.

 

[APU_Fusion]

The sheer horror of a national divorce in terms of citizenship, migration, military arms (who controls what) international relations, setting up agreements between the two countries etc. it would be humanitarian nightmare.

Also, about three months after the red states split and realize their asses are broke without blue state subsidies would have those MAGATS screaming for their god given medicaire and food stamp rights. Shakes head

 

[Indus]

The sheer horror of a national divorce in terms of citizenship, migration, military arms (who controls what) international relations, setting up agreements between the two countries etc. it would be humanitarian nightmare.

Also, about three months after the red states split and realize their asses are broke without blue state subsidies would have those MAGATS screaming for their god given medicaire and food stamp rights. Shakes head

It's just the deep south..

Nothing really revolutionary..

 

[dank69]

It’s odd that you’re making my point for me and then saying I’m arguing against it. My point has always been that things have gotten better but there’s plenty of room for improvement.

Read this thread from the beginning and look at the absolute insanity people are engaging in to avoid admitting things have improved. Every possible excuse is pulled out to convince themselves the numbers are wrong.

Everyone understands your point. You are the one missing the point others are trying to make, and turning it into "Dems should run on a platform of everything is terrible."

All they are trying to say is that there are a bunch of people that are hurting and telling those specific people that they're doing awesome isn't a winning message with those people. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I’m not going to bother crunching the numbers but let’s they accomplish their goal. Wouldn’t that also cause them to lose seats in the house due to the population losses and cause “blue” states to gain seats? How many senate seats would change what party holds them? Would they be able to keep the senate? If not then their power gain would be moot as democrats would likely control the federal government and pass policies that would override the state and local laws.

I mean, I'm fairly certain that's the primary reason for banning abortion. They're looking for voters in 18-24 years.

 

[fskimospy]

Everyone understands your point. You are the one missing the point others are trying to make, and turning it into "Dems should run on a platform of everything is terrible."

All they are trying to say is that there are a bunch of people that are hurting and telling those specific people that they're doing awesome isn't a winning message with those people. Is that so hard to understand?

To be clear I understand people have repeatedly lied as if that were my position but since I never said it isn’t the right thing to call out the lies and not pretend they didn’t happen?

 

[dank69]

To be clear I understand people have repeatedly lied as if that were my position but since I never said it isn’t the right thing to call out the lies and not pretend they didn’t happen?

Call out the lies by posting lies of your own? No, I don't think that's productive.

Running on a platform of "the economy is doing better" without also acknowledging that it isn't necessarily better for everyone and that there is a lot more that can be done if we vote out a lot more GOP stooges might turn off a bunch of voters. That certainly doesn't mean Dems need to run on a platform of "the economy is terrible."