This is another fine example of how the average Christian lies to himself in order to be convinced that something he doesn't want to accept is untrue. In this case, Metalloid has clearly shown bias when he specifically singled out two posters whose opinions he agreed with (QT and me) and individually used two entire post to ask us to leave. But it's okay, because Metalloid convinced himself that he wasn't singling people out by making two ridiculous self-comforting statements:
1) that he had hoped bluemax would stop posting once I did, so he would only ask me to leave
(this is a stupid reason because a) it clearly shows bias when you only ask one of two people arguing to leave and b) bluemax was posting religious discussion before my most recent reply...and Metalloid never had a problem with it before since it was supporting his viewpoint)
2) he lies to himself about how he asked Netopia to leave too even though Netopia was pro-Christian as well.
(In reality, Metalloid never ASKED Netopia to leave. Netopia volunteered himself to not post "out of deference" to Metalloid.
In addition, he lost his temper and started flaming himself by calling QT "ignorant." I love how he asks people not to flame others and then turns around and does so himself -- this is another excellent example of how certain Christians are hypocrites and don't know it...and the above explanation demonstrates how some Christians lie to themselves in order to not have to believe that something that is clearly untrue but unpleasant.
Valsalva
You know, goshdarnit, I must not have seen your post...or maybe I did and felt that you made some really worthless arguments that were not worth responding to. However, based on your recent usage of vulgarity ("pussy?" ...what, is this a middle school playground?), I'm not even going to bother to scroll up and read what you wrote. You're clearly the type of person who results to elementary school name-calling in the absence of rational argument, and I found that arguing with 8 year olds who have word-finding problems is a huge waste of time. Seriously. Tell ya what, if you a) withdraw your "pussy" remark and b) make some solid arguments, I'll probably respond. Otherwise, you can always find one of your colleagues at the slide/swing set and debate your heart out.
Valsalva
Originally posted by: Harabecw
Wow, its written like those people were in al qaeda
Yes. In fact al Qaeda and many, no all, Christians have a great deal in common. They both are 100% convinced that there text is infallable.
Originally posted by: QTArrhythmic
Originally posted by: Harabecw
Wow, its written like those people were in al qaeda
Yes. In fact al Qaeda and many, no all, Christians have a great deal in common. They both are 100% convinced that there text is infallable.
...and both think that if they follow the divine command of their God (i.e. be it killing Americans or living the way of Jesus), they will go to "Heaven."
...and both think that everyone else who doesn't practice their religious beliefs are ignorant fools who are missing out in eternal life.
but who is correct? If the Christian god is so omnipotent, how come he allowed these radical Muslim extremists inhumanely annhiliate thousands of his Christian children in the 9/11 attack? Were the thousands of Christians in the WTC all sinners?? Was he punshing them all?? They must have been, because God is a) omnipotent and b) just. How could such a just god allow his INNOCENT children to die like that...especially at the hands of non-Christians???
Answer: either God is not omnipotent, God is not just, or God doesn't exist. Doh.
Valsalva
The funny thing is... Christians don't respect anyone else in the real world. Why should anyone else respect you here?
Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut
Originally posted by: QTArrhythmic
Originally posted by: Harabecw
Wow, its written like those people were in al qaeda
Yes. In fact al Qaeda and many, no all, Christians have a great deal in common. They both are 100% convinced that there text is infallable.
...and both think that if they follow the divine command of their God (i.e. be it killing Americans or living the way of Jesus), they will go to "Heaven."
...and both think that everyone else who doesn't practice their religious beliefs are ignorant fools who are missing out in eternal life.
but who is correct? If the Christian god is so omnipotent, how come he allowed these radical Muslim extremists inhumanely annhiliate thousands of his Christian children in the 9/11 attack? Were the thousands of Christians in the WTC all sinners?? Was he punshing them all?? They must have been, because God is a) omnipotent and b) just. How could such a just god allow his INNOCENT children to die like that...especially at the hands of non-Christians???
Answer: either God is not omnipotent, God is not just, or God doesn't exist. Doh.
Valsalva
He works in mysterious ways!
Interesting how some here bash the Christian religion by provoking Christians and then nitpicking their actions. Too bad they can't find more constructive uses for their time.
If you're truly interested in learning about Christianity, go the the source, Jesus Christ as revealed in the Scripture.
Basing your view of Christianity on flawed human beings is pretty pointless, in my opinion.
If you're truly interested in learning about Christianity, go the the source, Jesus Christ as revealed in the Scripture.
Basing your view of Christianity on flawed human beings is pretty pointless, in my opinion.
ValsalvaYourHeartOut and QTArrhythmic, I think you're thinking too hard on this =).
I don't think that you're gonna convince any Christians on AT to become atheist, and likewise, the christians won't convince any atheists on ATOT to convert either. So no matter how well you prove your point, it won't matter in the end. The christians will just say "oh yeah thats just bs" and the atheists will say "yeah!! RIGHT!!!".
If people want to believe in a god..thats fine with them. And if people want to believe in one less god than another, thats also fine. However, they shouldn't go running around trying to convert each other.
I don't think that you're gonna convince any Christians on AT to become atheist, and likewise, the christians won't convince any atheists on ATOT to convert either. So no matter how well you prove your point, it won't matter in the end. The christians will just say "oh yeah thats just bs" and the atheists will say "yeah!! RIGHT!!!".
If people want to believe in a god..thats fine with them. And if people want to believe in one less god than another, thats also fine. However, they shouldn't go running around trying to convert each other.
so any debate against christianity is invalid because you can't debate it with the lowly humans who know nothing, but only god, who just happens not to be around for the discussion.
note: in response to rip
note: in response to rip
To believe in the Christ revealed in scripture, you have to base your view on things written by flawed human beings.
God has revealed Himself to man through the Holy Scriptures, the Bible. All that we know about God is contained there.
My point is, one should base their view of Christianity on Jesus Christ and God's revelation to us through the Bible.
To base one's opinion of Christianity on flawed human beings is misguided.
You can debate all you want, but if you're truly interested in learning about God, you should go to the source.
Here's what the Bible says about itself:
2 Timothy 3:15-17
...and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Originally posted by: fatbaby
ValsalvaYourHeartOut and QTArrhythmic, I think you're thinking too hard on this =).
I don't think that you're gonna convince any Christians on AT to become atheist, and likewise, the christians won't convince any atheists on ATOT to convert either. So no matter how well you prove your point, it won't matter in the end. The christians will just say "oh yeah thats just bs" and the atheists will say "yeah!! RIGHT!!!".
If people want to believe in a god..thats fine with them. And if people want to believe in one less god than another, thats also fine. However, they shouldn't go running around trying to convert each other.
Your point always seems to come up, so I'll just resummarize:
1) I am not trying to convert any Christian into an atheist. I have realized years ago that Christians have a built-in defense mechanism for conversion that is difficult to overcome because it disassembles a person's logic and rational thinking, it utilizes pervasive emotions such as "love for god," and it integrates itself into a person's life and sense of existence. It is virtually impossible to convert a Christian that has this system already established, so if you read what I write, you'll find that I'm not actually attempting to "convert" anyone, per se.
2) Christians, OTOH, are commanded by Jesus and the other 2/3 of the Trinity to convert people...they truly believe that they can convert people because they have God's will behind them...indeed, they are frequently successful in converting people not because of God, but because they people they convert are susceptible to being converted to such a religion. That is why they do what they do...and hopefully to help them earn a seat in heaven (sounds a little self-serving to me). So this is why you see them standing on the corner passing out useless handbooks and leaflets and is why they knock on your door on Sundays...and is also why you see them attempting to convert Anandtech into Jesustech.
Valsalva
Yeah, that's great...Jesus N Pals inspired the bible to be written, and it's our only source to learn about Him and Friends. Sounds plausible...except....
1) The original work is in Latin and has been translated into numerous different languages, including English. It is common knowledge that whenever you translate one language into another, you lose a great deal of meaning because some phrases "just don't translate" well and the author's true intention or metaphorical intonation is lost in the process. furthermore, it is also common knowledge that whenever works are translated, the translator's own personal biases and interpretations are added to the translated work. Therefore, by reading a bible written in english, you cannot truly understand the original God-inspired work. Have you read the bible in Latin, Riprorin?
2) I think most Christians agree that the bible is the principal source for determining how things came to be and what we're supposed to be doing here on earth as god's children. I find it absolutely astonishing then that HALF the world has never even seen a bible, let alone Jesus Christ of the other 2/3 of the Trinity. Take Shaka Mizubwe, you average villager living in a 3rd world country that most Americans couldn't identify on a map. He lives in a little adobe hut in the plains in the middle of nowhere with his fellow villagers, subsisting on wild game and river water. Do you think HE has even seen a bible? Do you think he's even literate? How come half the world is like Shaka Mizubwe...having never heard of the Jesus N pals...guess what...Shaka is going to hell because it's also common knowledge that if you do not seek Jesus for salvation, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Shaka has never even heard of Jesus, can't therefore seek Him for salvation, and will go straight to hell. How come God is sending half the world to hell???? He's omnipotent, right? How come He doesn't drop a few bibles down to them and teach them how to read? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T EXIST, YOU FOOLS! But wait, that doesn't seem too fair...how come God is sending half his children to hell without even allowing them the opportunity to seek Jesus and go to heaven!?? Do Christians ever stop to think about this?? Nope..because they're too busy knocking on my door telling me that the bible this, the bible that...
Valsalva
Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut
Originally posted by: fatbaby
ValsalvaYourHeartOut and QTArrhythmic, I think you're thinking too hard on this =).
I don't think that you're gonna convince any Christians on AT to become atheist, and likewise, the christians won't convince any atheists on ATOT to convert either. So no matter how well you prove your point, it won't matter in the end. The christians will just say "oh yeah thats just bs" and the atheists will say "yeah!! RIGHT!!!".
If people want to believe in a god..thats fine with them. And if people want to believe in one less god than another, thats also fine. However, they shouldn't go running around trying to convert each other.
Your point always seems to come up, so I'll just resummarize:
1) I am not trying to convert any Christian into an atheist. I have realized years ago that Christians have a built-in defense mechanism for conversion that is difficult to overcome because it disassembles a person's logic and rational thinking, it utilizes pervasive emotions such as "love for god," and it integrates itself into a person's life and sense of existence. It is virtually impossible to convert a Christian that has this system already established, so if you read what I write, you'll find that I'm not actually attempting to "convert" anyone, per se.
2) Christians, OTOH, are commanded by Jesus and the other 2/3 of the Trinity to convert people...they truly believe that they can convert people because they have God's will behind them...indeed, they are frequently successful in converting people not because of God, but because they people they convert are susceptible to being converted to such a religion. That is why they do what they do...and hopefully to help them earn a seat in heaven (sounds a little self-serving to me). So this is why you see them standing on the corner passing out useless handbooks and leaflets and is why they knock on your door on Sundays...and is also why you see them attempting to convert Anandtech into Jesustech.
Valsalva
Yes, Christians are commanded to share the Gospel or "good news". If you are drowning and I have a lifeline, would it not be selfish of me not to throw it to you?
I don't believe that man converts anyone. I can't explain it, but God gives us the ability to "hear" and believe.
1 Thessalonians 1:3-5
We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.
For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.
Actually, Riprorin, the following was specifically addressed towards you. Now stop being the typical Christian by ignoring what you don't want to hear/believe. This is why God gave you ears. You don't have ears because members of an ancestral species without ears were more likely to be eaten by predators because they couldn't hear them coming, and therefore couldn't survive to reproduce and pass their earless characteristics to their offspring, leaving only members of your species WITH ears...
1) The original work is in Hebrew/Greek and has been translated into numerous different languages, including English. It is common knowledge that whenever you translate one language into another, you lose a great deal of meaning because some phrases "just don't translate" well and the author's true intention or metaphorical intonation is lost in the process. furthermore, it is also common knowledge that whenever works are translated, the translator's own personal biases and interpretations are added to the translated work. Therefore, by reading a bible written in english, you cannot truly understand the original God-inspired work. Have you read the bible in Latin, Riprorin?
2) I think most Christians agree that the bible is the principal source for determining how things came to be and what we're supposed to be doing here on earth as god's children. I find it absolutely astonishing then that HALF the world has never even seen a bible, let alone Jesus Christ of the other 2/3 of the Trinity. Take Shaka Mizubwe, you average villager living in a 3rd world country that most Americans couldn't identify on a map. He lives in a little adobe hut in the plains in the middle of nowhere with his fellow villagers, subsisting on wild game and river water. Do you think HE has even seen a bible? Do you think he's even literate? How come half the world is like Shaka Mizubwe...having never heard of the Jesus N pals...guess what...Shaka is going to hell because it's also common knowledge that if you do not seek Jesus for salvation, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Shaka has never even heard of Jesus, can't therefore seek Him for salvation, and will go straight to hell. How come God is sending half the world to hell???? He's omnipotent, right? How come He doesn't drop a few bibles down to them and teach them how to read? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T EXIST, YOU FOOLS! But wait, that doesn't seem too fair...how come God is sending half his children to hell without even allowing them the opportunity to seek Jesus and go to heaven!?? Do Christians ever stop to think about this?? Nope..because they're too busy knocking on my door telling me that the bible this, the bible that...
Valsalva
I believe that the Bible was originally written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. Clearly, there are nuances to different languages but I think that the message is consistent and diferences based on translation are fairly subtle.
For those that have not heard of Jesus, I would presume that God will judge them on the basis of what has been revealed to them.
What I told you, Mr. Moron was that I am not a Christian and that you should stop crapping on this thread. Moron. Now Answer you pathetic POS.
Edit- Secondly, what was there to argue about? You always crap on any thread about Christians...speaking of immature? I am not one, but still think you should respect the people in this thread. They don't want to debate religion with you so stop being a nosy self righteous bitch and butt out.
What sort of handwaving mumbojumbo is that? That's eqiuvalent to some BS like "God works in mysterious ways." But its all right, "she moves in mysterious ways" also.
I am not a Christian so WTF do you think that applies to me? Oh you just assume like always Jellomancer, maybe you should stop reading my posts because you never catch the true meaning.
Well Well. Even the Christian supporters are calling names. And Mr. is not the appropriate prefix.
QT, Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason that you're expending so much energy hating Christians?
You are correct regarding the original language of the bible. However, this is about 100% irrelevant, and my argument still stands: Whenever works are translated, the author's original meaning and intent is lost whenever corresponding phrases do not exist in the translated language. If you happen to know another language fluently, you'll find that there are many times when a particular idiom or metaphorical phrase just will not translate over to English, and any attempts to make the translation will make little sense to the English speaker. Furthermore, it is well-known that whenever a work is translated, the translator himself will insert his own bias, meaning, and interpretation, especially when he has a choice of English words to use for the translated text. The case can be no different for the bible, translated to English from Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. Therefore, it is possible to understand only the superficial, gross meaning of the bible if it is read in English.
I ask that you address these points specifically, rather than focus on irrelevant nuances of my argument. This is not Sunday School, and there are no points for handwaving and ignoring valid points just becuase you don't want to hear them.
For someone who presents himself as a biblical scholar, you seem to have ignored NUMEROUS bible passages that EXPLICITLY state that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, an individual must seek Jesus for salvation because by default, we are all born sinners. Works alone WITHOUT seeking Jesus is INSUFFICIENT. Your presumption is incorrect and grossly inconsistent with Christian belief. Nice try, bucko.
Valsalva
No, no, no. You have it all wrong. I am Christian, I don't hate Christians. I just want people to think for themselves instead of being bent over and lubed up, taking everything that pastor of the church is giving them. I believe that churches of today are grossly misleading parishioners.
-AVNRT
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