Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[desura]

The starkiller base was a mistake. I wish we could have seen the first order take a Guerrilla warfare approach instead of the super weapons. Let the New Republic be the dominant power, but show case the difficulty in the good guys now having to lead and deal with an enemy using their own tactics against them. It would be something new in addition to having overtones of problems faced in real life. Blowing up these big budget superweapons constantly however is just getting comical.

No, what they should have done was depict Leia's New Republic as turning into another Empire.

 

[desura]

Youre a blathering dumbass.

Patriarchy and women in combat arent anywhere near the same exact thing. Neither are women in government or positions of leadership or respect anything close to exactly the same as women in combat.

They kind of are. Like, the reason for the mythical pay gap is largely because women have to take time off to have children, and in that time, they aren't doing work. At least in primitive societies, political power is wielded by warriors--largely being men. This is because meritocracy.

The problem really is that people act like girl power is all about being macho and tough when really girls wield power in different ways than boys. This is really obvious when you look at how college sororities and fraternities work.

 

[desura]

Im not going to give desura credit by quoting him, but I was not impressed with Episode 7. It definitely seems like it was a movie made by white feminists, and they didnt seem to give a fuck about playing stereotypes or how they might be portraying any people of color, most particularly Finn.

Thanks for the compliment. Glad to see I'm on your mind.

 

[lupi]

It did serve an important narrative element, elimination of the Republic fleet

The starkiller base was a mistake. I wish we could have seen the first order take a Guerrilla warfare approach instead of the super weapons. Let the New Republic be the dominant power, but show case the difficulty in the good guys now having to lead and deal with an enemy using their own tactics against them. It would be something new in addition to having overtones of problems faced in real life. Blowing up these big budget superweapons constantly however is just getting comical.

It did serve a narrative purpose, without them going pearl harbor on the Republic fleet it seems they would have been strongly outnumbered once the Senate decided the rumours were real.

 

[Ruptga]

It did serve an important narrative element, elimination of the Republic fleet


It did serve a narrative purpose, without them going pearl harbor on the Republic fleet it seems they would have been strongly outnumbered once the Senate decided the rumours were real.

Sure, much like having a bridge collapse on someone serves the purpose of writing a character out of a show.

Oh shit, did I just spoil episode 9?

 

[lupi]

 

[desura]

It's kinda funny how Star Wars is quintessentially American in showing how self-delusional we are. The bad guy is always the empire. We're always the rebel good guys.

BTW, Rogue One had a strong Dutch feel, anyone else notice?

 

[Sonikku]

It's kinda funny how Star Wars is quintessentially American in showing how self-delusional we are. The bad guy is always the empire. We're always the rebel good guys.

This is what happens when you deny the existence of the prequels.

 

[Ichinisan]

I don't care even a little. The Force Awakens was meh.

 

[Majes]

The Force Awakens was a strange mix of solid character development and awful plot.
It's been mentioned many times here but Starkiller Base was the most stupid choice they could have made. I'd like to think that if I was in the room planning out 7 and I said "Hey! Let's do the Death Star, but bigger!" people would have laughed and moved on to other ideas.

A few people here need to go back and watch the Rey vs Ben Solo fight at the end. Keep in mind the following things...
1. Ben has just killed his father and it clearly did not give him the push towards the Dark Side he desired.2
2. Ben has just been shot.
3. Ben fights Finn before Rey.
4. Rey has already engaged in a battle of wills and proved stronger during her interrogation.

The fight is done well and it's believable if you take in the evidence. The character development and interaction is pretty solid. What completely and utterly fails is the big picture plot. It's completely nonsensical. There's no way I can be convinced that the First Order could fund and build a bigger Death Star with no one knowing. I end up ranking TFA as 6th out of 7 movies because of this. Only Attack of the Clones was worse because the acting was absolutely abysmal.

They do have some interesting characters to play with for Episode 8 though. I'm hoping they get a little crazy and completely change up the saga.

 

[JTsyo]

Saw a mock up of this with the 3rd one as "From His Nap".

 

[local]

Starkiller Base was idiotic and unnecessary. It would have been better had they found another Star Forge and built a giant fleet crewed by clones. If they needed to kill off the Republic Fleet then they could have had the fleet attack the Star Forge and succeed in destroying it but not before the already created Imperial Fleet annihilates the Republic Fleet. Basically a suicide run with the entire fleet.

 

[desura]

No. What they should have done was to make an inversion. The victorious Republic is now the Empire. The Empire's aesthetics are now the insurgent rebels.

It just feels like a retread doing it this way with somehow the Empire becoming more evil. And Kylo Ren...doesn't make sense so far.

 

[Majes]

No. What they should have done was to make an inversion. The victorious Republic is now the Empire. The Empire's aesthetics are now the insurgent rebels.

It just feels like a retread doing it this way with somehow the Empire becoming more evil. And Kylo Ren...doesn't make sense so far.

I'm not a huge fan of the inversion because it somewhat invalidates the heroics and sacrifices made in earlier movies. I would rather have had an outside threat like the one represented in the NJO books. Actually I'd have rather just had Thrawn... But it doesn't matter. Apparently I'll watch the heck out of anything Star Wars even if it's garbage.

 

[lupi]

The Republic already became the empire, having it become the Republic again starts to feel rather circular.

 

[Printer Bandit]

Star wars is cheesy af.
Rogue one is cheesy af.

 

[desura]

I'm not a huge fan of the inversion because it somewhat invalidates the heroics and sacrifices made in earlier movies. I would rather have had an outside threat like the one represented in the NJO books. Actually I'd have rather just had Thrawn... But it doesn't matter. Apparently I'll watch the heck out of anything Star Wars even if it's garbage.

Meh, if they had done the prequels right, Darth Vader would have been the hero who stays around too long and becomes the villain.

The series always had a psychological aspect. Kenobi in the first film is a crazy old burn out who was past his heroic days.

The Yuuzhan Vong invasion was when I stopped reading those books. Such a bad plot device which also fundamentally changed the character of the series. It was basically Space Mongols. Not a good editorial turn.

 

[Aikouka]

The Force Awakens was a strange mix of solid character development and awful plot.

Eh, I didn't care for Finn's development. Honestly, I try to avoid thinking too much while watching a movie, so I can just enjoy it; however, it was hard to ignore his sudden change of heart right at the beginning. The reason is that we had no idea why he would want to do that. I mean... it makes sense why a character would want to defect as that's not an uncommon story trope; however, I thought it was important to setup the character well enough for us to understand his dismay at the situation.

Frankly, Force Awakens has the problem where a good bit of the backstory that would've actually been helpful was left out for inclusion in companion books. I can understand that you don't want to stuff too much into the movie, and honestly... backstory and exposition can be hard to do well. Too often it feels like the movie is just trying to toss stuff at you... especially if it's just someone narrating or something.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Eh, I didn't care for Finn's development. Honestly, I try to avoid thinking too much while watching a movie, so I can just enjoy it; however, it was hard to ignore his sudden change of heart right at the beginning. The reason is that we had no idea why he would want to do that. I mean... it makes sense why a character would want to defect as that's not an uncommon story trope; however, I thought it was important to setup the character well enough for us to understand his dismay at the situation.

Frankly, Force Awakens has the problem where a good bit of the backstory that would've actually been helpful was left out for inclusion in companion books. I can understand that you don't want to stuff too much into the movie, and honestly... backstory and exposition can be hard to do well. Too often it feels like the movie is just trying to toss stuff at you... especially if it's just someone narrating or something.

It was stated at the beginning that his commander was 'old fashioned' by using normal people instead of clone troops. I always presumed he was just someone who wasn't brainwashed/was a normal person, and so upon seeing the slaughter that the empire was doing, chose a different path. Not sure that needs an entire prequel backstory (or any backstory at all).

 

[Ichinisan]

Eh, I didn't care for Finn's development. Honestly, I try to avoid thinking too much while watching a movie, so I can just enjoy it; however, it was hard to ignore his sudden change of heart right at the beginning. The reason is that we had no idea why he would want to do that. I mean... it makes sense why a character would want to defect as that's not an uncommon story trope; however, I thought it was important to setup the character well enough for us to understand his dismay at the situation.

Frankly, Force Awakens has the problem where a good bit of the backstory that would've actually been helpful was left out for inclusion in companion books. I can understand that you don't want to stuff too much into the movie, and honestly... backstory and exposition can be hard to do well. Too often it feels like the movie is just trying to toss stuff at you... especially if it's just someone narrating or something.

I don't understand why he hid the fact that he was a defector and could be useful.

 

[Aikouka]

It was stated at the beginning that his commander was 'old fashioned' by using normal people instead of clone troops. I always presumed he was just someone who wasn't brainwashed/was a normal person, and so upon seeing the slaughter that the empire was doing, chose a different path. Not sure that needs an entire prequel backstory (or any backstory at all).

I think it was J.J. Abrams said that all of the Stormtroopers were normal people and not clones. Supposedly, they haven't used clones since the era of the prequels, or at least that's the excuse they gave for the stormtroopers in the original trilogy all having a different voice. Supposedly, a bit of "back-canon" is that Luke was training to get into the academy that trains Imperial pilots.

EDIT:

I don't understand why he hid the fact that he was a defector and could be useful.

Plot.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I think it was J.J. Abrams said that all of the Stormtroopers were normal people and not clones. Supposedly, they haven't used clones since the era of the prequels, or at least that's the excuse they gave for the stormtroopers in the original trilogy all having a different voice. Supposedly, a bit of "back-canon" is that Luke was training to get into the academy that trains Imperial pilots.

From http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens.html:

INT. STAR DESTROYER - BRIDGE - DAY
General Hux and Kylo Ren walk the length of the bridge.

GENERAL HUX
Supreme Leader Snoke was explicit.
Capture the droid if we can, but
destroy it if we must.

KYLO REN
How capable are your soldiers,
General?

GENERAL HUX
(WITH VITRIOL)
I won't have you question my methods.

KYLO REN
They're obviously skilled at
committing high treason. Perhaps
Leader Snoke should consider using a
clone army.

GENERAL HUX
(YOU SON-OF-A-BITCH)
My men are exceptionally trained --
programmed from birth--

KYLO REN
Then they should have no problem
retrieving the droid. Unharmed.

GENERAL HUX
Careful, Ren. That your "personal
interests" not interfere with orders
from Leader Snoke.

KYLO REN
I want that map. For your sake, I
suggest you get it.
Ren heads off. Hux hates him.

 

[lupi]

I think it was J.J. Abrams said that all of the Stormtroopers were normal people and not clones. Supposedly, they haven't used clones since the era of the prequels, or at least that's the excuse they gave for the stormtroopers in the original trilogy all having a different voice. Supposedly, a bit of "back-canon" is that Luke was training to get into the academy that trains Imperial pilots.

EDIT:



Plot.

If by back-canon you mean it was in the original script, then you are correct.

 

[Sonikku]

Imagine if Episode 7 had been a character in the same vein as Luke, only he actually gets his wish and trains at the academy, a good personal brought down into a dark downward spiral. His awakening to the corruption and defection to the republic could have been a good story.

 

[Aikouka]

If by back-canon you mean it was in the original script, then you are correct.

I don't believe the original trilogy ever stated that they were or were not cloned soldiers... mostly because there was no need. The problem was that Attack of the Clones revealed that the Republic's army (and then the Empire's army in episode III after Palpatine kills democracy with thunderous applause) was cloned from Jango Fett, but there was never any note that the Clonetroopers used in the prequel trilogy weren't the same as the Stormtroopers in the original trilogy.