Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

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Apr 8, 2001
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#51
Confirmed that Leia has a couple big scenes in this film and was planned for a couple more in the following. LF said they are planning on meetings soon to discuss how to handle the character now, main choices seem to be either do some reshoots of 8 and lesson her role to allow for a revised storyline exit, or perform a Tarkin in 9.
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#52
Well they clearly used her likeness in Rogue One with her permission already, so the argument can probably be made that it could be used in 9.
 
Apr 8, 2001
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#53
LF now saying no digital Leia for 8/9, so will be interesting how this will affect the scripts.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
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#54
How about in the first scene we establish that the emo puke is actually a badass by having him blow open a door and choke a guy to death with his mind? Oh yeah, did that already too. :hmm:

How about the next one is set at least a year later, and to show how our previously insipid heroes have all grown up the first thing we will see after the title crawl and camera pan is them in the middle of a huge space battle over Coruscant... Fuck. :hmm:

Ok forget all that, to get the audience concerned that our heroes might actually die this time we'll reveal that the Empire is constructing a planetary superweapon that's way bigger than the last one, and it has no obvious weaknesses so they have to go attack it right now before it gets finished. That one's airtight.

I really don't know how they could fix this new series; if 7 had been released with a different name and an average marketing budget it would already have been forgotten by most people. But, character development and an actual script can make shitty IPs significantly less shitty, maybe even good.
I just think they started this series in completely the wrong spot. I see no way for this to not just be a horrible rehash of the original that will make people miss the prequels. They should've started one or two years, or even immediately after, Return of the Jedi and finished off the original story line, instead of restarting it in a terrible way.
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#55
The path forward could not have been more obvious. The Empire has fallen. The rebel alliance has attempted to transition from a hit and run military into a government that works but they're struggling. Imperial remnants now in the minority, see the foolishness of big ticket super weapons and adapt to using the same tactics the rebels had used against them. The fleets the former rebels can field to police the galaxy against this threat are fewer than what the Empire had had, giving the first order considerable latitude to inflict terror on the galaxy in the gaps of the New Republic's forces that can't protect every system at once.

The people become restless and lose faith in the New Republic's ability to protect them. The First Order casts the New Republic as basically a bunch of terrorists that destabilized the order created by the Emperor. The line between freedom fighter and terrorist becomes blurred, the need for security weighed against liberty is questioned. Evil on both sides. Civil War. The main character could have been a bright eyed character like luke that instead of bumping into a a scoundrel and a jedi master instead gets his dream of going to the academy, only to be brain washed. 8 could be his disillusionment and 9 could have been his redemption.

Damn what a blown opportunity. DIsney opted to play it safe with a rehash of the original by attempting to shoe horn in this idea that the occupying force in the galaxy are "the resistance". They give this small minority remnant force a weapon bigger and more powerful than what the rich Empire ever built. Blowing up super weapons is starting to turn into a joke! The prequel trilogy was a testament to the dangers of being taken in by promises of security in exchange for freedom. Can you just imagine if the sequel trilogy had been about how deposing an evil dictatorship is only half the battle and making a government that works isn't so cut and dry?
 
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Nov 20, 2005
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#56
That is exactly why I appreciated Rouge One so much.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
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#58
Rogue One should have come out before Episode VII.

And Episode VII...made several choices which I disagree with. I'm also pretty sick of seeing skinny little women acting all macho and using violence against men. Natalie Portman has herself said that she dislikes the trend of macho violent women, and I agree with her. So far in the new star wars movies we have a female lead in each. That's too much SJW going on. Women IRL aren't macho like this.

I definitely think that fan enthusiasm is down a lot for star wars especially now that we have the Marvel and DC universes on film, Pixar films, etc there's been an explosion in fantastical creativity in cinema in the past twenty years that wasn't around when Star Wars was big. There's a lot more competition in that space.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
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#60
Except Rogue One has a horrible story and horrible character development so it's still not much better.
Rogue One was pretty good I thought.

The only problem was that it didn't have any of the fun little weird moments that George Lucas is known for. It is too serious.
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#61
Rogue One should have come out before Episode VII.

And Episode VII...made several choices which I disagree with. I'm also pretty sick of seeing skinny little women acting all macho and using violence against men. Natalie Portman has herself said that she dislikes the trend of macho violent women, and I agree with her. So far in the new star wars movies we have a female lead in each. That's too much SJW going on. Women IRL aren't macho like this.
So star wars has two female leads back to back and suddenly it's all SJW? That's a bit much.
Episode 1 lead - Male
Episode 2 lead - Male
Episode 3 lead - Male
Episode 4 lead - Male
Episode 5 lead - Male
Episode 6 lead - Male
Episode 7 lead - Female
Rogue One lead - Female
whoa WHOA there! That's two women in a row! We got too much estrogen going on here!!

Han Solo and Fett are both going to be male leads so if you're worried about the gender balance ratio of lead star wars characters just wait a couple years and all will be restored.
PS. Women can be macho. They can even be violent. Even IRL. :)
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
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#62
I definitely think that fan enthusiasm is down a lot for star wars especially now that we have the Marvel and DC universes on film, Pixar films, etc there's been an explosion in fantastical creativity in cinema in the past twenty years that wasn't around when Star Wars was big. There's a lot more competition in that space.
And Disney owns most of that also.

Rogue One was pretty good I thought.

The only problem was that it didn't have any of the fun little weird moments that George Lucas is known for. It is too serious.
I thought so also, more quirky moments would have been good relief from the main story arc.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
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#63
So star wars has two female leads back to back and suddenly it's all SJW? That's a bit much.
Episode 1 lead - Male
Episode 2 lead - Male
Episode 3 lead - Male
Episode 4 lead - Male
Episode 5 lead - Male
Episode 6 lead - Male
Episode 7 lead - Female
Rogue One lead - Female
whoa WHOA there! That's two women in a row! We got too much estrogen going on here!!

Han Solo and Fett are both going to be male leads so if you're worried about the gender balance ratio of lead star wars characters just wait a couple years and all will be restored.
PS. Women can be macho. They can even be violent. Even IRL. :)
They can be but generally speaking, they aren't. As an example, women are 14.5% of the active army. They are quite underrepresented there, and for good reason. Women in the Army are also allowed a relaxed physical fitness measure, which is fine because combat is largely technological now, but could be a problem in certain situations.

Like, an inversion of roles stops being interesting when it becomes the predominant norm. Patriarchal societies exist for a reason, and portraying something different, as I said can be interesting but also risks alienating the audience. Which is why people weren't so enthusiastic about EP VII. It tried too hard on the SJW yardstick.
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#64
People weren't enthusiastic about episode 7? And they weren't enthusiastic about it because it had a female AND an African American in the two major roles? I had no idea. I must be trapped in the liberal bubble.
 
Aug 11, 2005
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#65
deleted scene from 7, apologies if it's been posted before

 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
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#66
People weren't enthusiastic about episode 7? And they weren't enthusiastic about it because it had a female AND an African American in the two major roles? I had no idea. I must be trapped in the liberal bubble.
LOL, he's definitely not an African American.

Actually a lot of the writing for Finn made no sense in the film. As for him being Black-British, I dunno, he didn't seem sensitive enough, and his casting felt like exploiting stereotypes instead of finding the person who fit the role. By that, I mean he is pretty aggressive in facing off against Kylo Ren, when a better portrayal would have had him being very intimidated facing up against him. Maybe that is how it was written, or maybe that is just how it ended up when they picked this guy. It was like they picked him for that one early shot where he takes off his helmet. But overall, his performance didn't seem very subtle at all, and he was acting like a soccer hooligan pretty much throughout the film.
 

freeskier93

Senior member
Apr 17, 2015
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#67
They can be but generally speaking, they aren't. As an example, women are 14.5% of the active army. They are quite underrepresented there, and for good reason. Women in the Army are also allowed a relaxed physical fitness measure, which is fine because combat is largely technological now, but could be a problem in certain situations.

Like, an inversion of roles stops being interesting when it becomes the predominant norm. Patriarchal societies exist for a reason, and portraying something different, as I said can be interesting but also risks alienating the audience. Which is why people weren't so enthusiastic about EP VII. It tried too hard on the SJW yardstick.
So what you're saying is because there's prejudice and descrimination against women "IRL" then it should also be the norm for portrayal of women in movies? Yeah, that's not sexist at all.

Ultimately though, why do people fucking care so much? Why does this even have to be a topic of discussion at all?
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
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#69
So what you're saying is because there's prejudice and descrimination against women "IRL" then it should also be the norm for portrayal of women in movies? Yeah, that's not sexist at all.

Ultimately though, why do people fucking care so much? Why does this even have to be a topic of discussion at all?
You completely missed the point. Women, white women especially, occupy a very privileged status in America and the world. Women are fundamentally different than men. They typically talk about their feelings and work things out. So the approach towards women in these films should reflect how women actually are and not have them acting like men. Doing so cheapens the movie.
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#71
You completely missed the point. Women, white women especially, occupy a very privileged status in America and the world. Women are fundamentally different than men. They typically talk about their feelings and work things out. So the approach towards women in these films should reflect how women actually are and not have them acting like men. Doing so cheapens the movie.
Did you get this impression from Episode 4 as well when Princess Leia grabbed a blaster and started shooting up stormtroopers instead of talking things over with them and getting in touch with their feelings like a proper lady would?
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
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#72
Did you get this impression from Episode 4 as well when Princess Leia grabbed a blaster and started shooting up stormtroopers instead of talking things over with them and getting in touch with their feelings like a proper lady would?
Funny thing Carrie Fisher complained that she wasn't being treated ladylike enough by wardrobe--which is why they created the iron bikini.

Throughout the movies she inhabits the role of the princess, not a soldier. Soldiers are expendable and they die protecting the princess.
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#73
Funny thing Carrie Fisher complained that she wasn't being treated ladylike enough by wardrobe--which is why they created the iron bikini.

Throughout the movies she inhabits the role of the princess, not a soldier. Soldiers are expendable and they die protecting the princess.
She's like the only one of the primary characters to get shot in the whole trilogy.



I'm just going to assume you're trolling at this point. :p
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
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#74
She's like the only one of the primary characters to get shot in the whole trilogy.



I'm just going to assume you're trolling at this point. :p
Context: she was following her love Han into battle. Prior movies she is a reluctant warrior who picks up a gun when she has no other choice. But there's a reason why she isn't in the hallway when stormtroopers storm in or on the Frontline facing off against the Walker tanks. You know the refrain, women and children first...

Rey in contrast is the action hero protagonist.

I'll say that Mon Mothma is a pretty good depiction of women in wartime--as political symbolism and leadership, but not as Frontline soldiers.
 
Nov 20, 2005
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#75
People weren't enthusiastic about episode 7? And they weren't enthusiastic about it because it had a female AND an African American in the two major roles? I had no idea. I must be trapped in the liberal bubble.
I didn't mind her being a woman. We had female Jedis before. The force powers thing lends itself to it- mental strength over physical strength.

I minded like hell that she had no force training and yet she whips the ass of the villain who was trained by Luke Skywalker and Golem. Even in the terrible Phantom Menace young Darth only kicks ass due to (annoying) accidents and experience in pod racing.

The only was I can justify what happened in Force Awakens is that Kylo is like a fraction as powerful as what Vader or any real Jedi was, or she is like ten times as powerful as Vader ever was and she will destroy Kylo and Golem with little trouble after some Luke training (which we know can't happen for the movies to have a decent plot).

It's a completely unbalanced situation.
 

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