Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

[SLU Aequitas]

Fair warning, now that r/dereksmart has caught wind of this thread, it's likely to be invaded by some of the most slack-jawed and barely literate yokels modern civ has ever produced. You are more likely to have a coherent discussion with a mashed potato than these folk. Just nod politely and they should lose interest soon enough.

You must not be familiar with how that sub works. You see, the "slack-jawed and barely literate" bit you're referring to are quotes from Derek I know, honest mistake. I'm sure you're not trying to resort to name calling to try and present...actually, what are you trying to do? Just a little confused as to what this post adds...

 

[preslove]

Ah

Pretty sure that's a call out and got TK a 30 day vacation? I wonder how long you'll get?

Also, despite karefa-smart's best efforts, /r/dereksmart is not a hate reddit, as confirmed by Reddit staff. It's simply an archive of everything that your mail-in degree "doctor" says. If anything, you should thank those participating for archiving your dear leader's words, except as I posted before, that shows how absolutely wrong Derek has been over the many years of his trolling career (i.e. he doesn't develop games ).

He joined yesterday and has 3 posts, one of which is a bunch of lies, and 2 are are strait up trolling. How is pointing out a troll account a call out.

Ah, reddit, that bastion of nonhate subreddits like r/Nazis, r/altright and other hate groups. Their staff don't believe the worst scum are hate groups. So obvs they don't think a subreddit created to attack one person is a hategroup

 

[saj0r]

there are no lies in my post thank you very much. *Edit* so your definition of hating or attacking someone is just documenting what that person says?

 

[iBoMbY]

Ah


He joined yesterday and has 3 posts, one of which is a bunch of lies, and 2 are are strait up trolling. How is pointing out a troll account a call out.

Ah, reddit, that bastion of nonhate subreddits like r/Nazis, r/altright and other hate groups. Their staff don't believe the worst scum are hate groups. So obvs they don't think a subreddit created to attack one person is a hategroup

I would say you are doing the trolling here, as no one in his right mind would really believe anything Derekt Smart posts on the internet. He hasn't delivered one proof of anything substantial, and is self-quoting his self-quotes all day. 99% of his predictions and insider-knowledge claims are wrong, and what is not wrong is obvious and unimportant, or just a lucky guess.

 

[master_shake_]

false.

so it wasn't a great second post or it wasn't your second post?

which is it?

 

[SLU Aequitas]

I would say you are doing the trolling here, as no one in his right mind would really believe anything Derekt Smart posts on the internet. He hasn't delivered one proof of anything substantial, and is self-quoting his self-quotes all day. 99% of his predictions and insider-knowledge claims are wrong, and what is not wrong is obvious and unimportant, or just a lucky guess.

Usually the only thing he's been right on has been based on announcements already made by CIG :lol:

 

[saj0r]

so it wasn't a great second post or it wasn't your second post?

which is it?

the former. I can acknowledge that.

 

[preslove]

there are no lies in my post thank you very much. *Edit* so your definition of hating or attacking someone is just documenting what that person says?

Derek smart is not borderline homeless and plenty of his predictions have come true, troll accountman. There is plenty of hate in every single comment thread in that idiot echo chamber.

 

[preslove]

I would say you are doing the trolling here, as no one in his right mind would really believe anything Derekt Smart posts on the internet. He hasn't delivered one proof of anything substantial, and is self-quoting his self-quotes all day. 99% of his predictions and insider-knowledge claims are wrong, and what is not wrong is obvious and unimportant, or just a lucky guess.

Yes because uncritically regurgitating everything in a subreddit made to attack one person is such a level headed approach.

He's predicted much of the abnormal turnover for a game that hasn't shipped...

Oh, and the escapist article confirmed a bunch, too...

 

[Chipopo]

Here was Derek Smart's predictions for CitizenCon 2015:

http://dereksmart.com/2015/10/star-citizen-the-endgame/

1. They are going to parade all the A-List actors – all of whom cost a ton of money – for SQ42. This despite the fact that the stand-alone game is reported to be almost fifteen months away from completion.
   
   
2. They are going to show the opening cut-scene sequence for SQ42 with Gary Oldman giving his speech, someone flying and landing, NPCs waving etc.
   
   
3. They are going to show Star Marine. Again. It’s still a mess – and nowhere ready for production release. Reports tell me that if it gets released before year end, it would be a miracle.
   
   
4. They are going to show multi-crew. Again. Problem now is that, as of the last report I got, it doesn’t run smoothly at all. And so they are now running the demo on super computers with 16 cores, loads of memory etc. Again, not production release ready.
   
   
5. There is nothing new being released to backers, other than another AC patch apparently.

Seems like he was pretty on the money to me.

Note how he he was telling people that Illfonic's Star Marine was DOA at a time when CIG themselves were saying it was "weeks, not months" from release.

There's also the matter of CryEngine. In Derek's first blog he wrote:

Right from the start in 2012 when they said that they were using CryEngine3 as their baseline, I was skeptical. But if they kept the scope, and scene sizes manageable, I felt that it was totally doable.


Once the feature creep and increased scope started to unfold, I knew they were in trouble.


Remember what I said earlier that there is no game engine on the planet that would power the game I wanted to build, and that I’d have to build it? Yes, same thing here. That is precisely why all the top-tier developers build their game engines around the game they’re making. And even those who end up licensing middleware game engines do so based on the fact that they are making a game that fits within the framework of the engine they’re licensing. Nobody is going to license UE4 to develop a flight sim.


That CE3 engine is, first and foremost, a first-person engine. Second, it is geared toward small scale session-based games. Now imagine using a level-based engine, suited for first-person games, and trying to build an open persistent world with it. That’s like me trying to outfit my Tesla with the engine from a Prius. Bad things can and will happen.

This quote has really stood the test of time when you look at the last year of development. From CIG admitting that they've had to retool nearly half the engine, to the still incomplete "Item 2.0" system made in order to prevent the engine from having to render every object on the map, the completely inadequate player count per server for an MMO, and the endless array of glitches and hiccups that make Star Citizen a very pretty but very broken demo. In fact, nearly a year after Derek wrote that blog, Chris started sounding a lot like "Smart Speak":


http://scqa.info/?show=10FTC&episode=85&qid=4

And so essentially the core of CryEngine was never built to simulate this many items and objects, and we've had a long term refactor that we've been working on, the Item 2.0 that keeps on getting mentioned is one of the core ones … part of it, but we're basically refactoring the way the whole entity system updates; we're refactoring the fundamental …


So we've done a lot of top level changes on top of the CryNetwork but it's just not going to be good enough handle systems this big and this much data going back and forth. So we've long had a full rewrite of everything in CryNetwork on the table and we've been working on it and now with what happened, and what you could see on 2.4 and the framerates and everything it's just clear we're at the limit of what the current engine will handle without these new systems that we've been working on for quite a while coming online.

But let’s move on to more recent stuff. For instance, there’s the meat and potato’s prediction that 3.0 and SQ42 would not be coming out this year at a time when both had been projected for a 2016 release by CIG.

Then there’s the recent Chris Roberts interview where he states that with the current level of funding, they would only be able to complete the single player portion of the game (but not SC). This means that Chris's projection of $65 million to complete both SQ42 and SC with all stated stretch goals was far, far off the mark. In his very first blog on the subject Derek wrote:

http://dereksmart.com/2015/07/interstellar-citizens/

There isn’t a single publisher or developer on this planet who could build this game as pitched, let alone for anything less than $150 million.

And here we are at around $150 million, still without the money necessary to complete the game.

For my money though (and I mean this literally), the most important "prediction" Derek has made is that if you tell CIG you will be informing the AG and the BBB about their conduct, that you will get the refund that you deserve without much fuss. That’s info that’s worth it’s weight in virtual spaceships many times over.

 

[Skel]

great second post commando!

Ah


He joined yesterday and has 3 posts, one of which is a bunch of lies, and 2 are are strait up trolling. How is pointing out a troll account a call out.

Ah, reddit, that bastion of nonhate subreddits like r/Nazis, r/altright and other hate groups. Their staff don't believe the worst scum are hate groups. So obvs they don't think a subreddit created to attack one person is a hategroup

While I can see issue with people coming in to just troll the thread and the forum, we did jump on TK (and rightfully so) for jumping on new posters just because they didn't agree with him. Just because this leans (note: I said leans. not is) towards a bias against SC, we shouldn't jump upon any new member for having a low post count. It's stupid and childish. Go after what they wrote, but don't waste time and energy upon stuff that has nothing to do with SC, or DS. Otherwise, TK was right (*shutter*) and this is just a troll thread on SC and should be shut down.

 

[JSt0rm]

oh Im not jumping on anyone. I love the cig white knights ready to defend the honor of m'lady - a video game. That makes this thing even more hilarious. Mix in the failed hollywood producer, the tickle porn actress, the internet warlord, a fat man, goons and the largest crowd funding ever done AND the largest video game budget ever in one hilariously stupid thing? Yeah, dis be good.

 

[JSt0rm]

there are no lies in my post thank you very much. *Edit* so your definition of hating or attacking someone is just documenting what that person says?

[Picture Removed

PC Gaming Moderator Aigomorla]

 

[werepossum]

Stop repeating lies. There is no evidence that DS was the source of the racism allegations. You are libeling the escapist reporter and her editors, who say they had multiple current and former employees as sources.

Also, the only "family member" that DS has attacked is CR's unqualified wife, who is the head of marketing, even though she is just a failed actress who lied about about her education and work history. The allegations (not "insinuations") against her were made by the employee sources of the escapist.

Putting your wife in an executive position that they're unqualified for is a very basic form of corruption that allows your household to double up on its income.

Also, the legal team demanded a retraction from escapist, or they'd sue. The escapist didn't retract (they would have if they discovered their reporter was lying), and Ortwin never followed through with the lawsuit. That demand letter was just one more unprofessional response to a critical article.



1. SC cult members have been review bombing his games on steam. Quite the hate mob.
2. Those games were developed with Smarts own money, so who cares if they're crap? The entire point of SC criticism is they are burning through crowdfunded/presale money.
3. You can get an automatic refund very easily for a steam game. SC only started giving easy refunds for their buggy tech demo after DS spent months pressuring them.

TLDR: SC is harmful because it is consumer fraud, while Smart's games aren't harmful because they're self funded indie games that suck, distributed on a platform that gives easy refunds.

I'd take issue only with Roberts' wife being unqualified. They have raised over $140 million for a video game which does not yet exist in anything near a final playable form. There's some serious marketing mojo somewhere. But you make good points about the relative harm. If Star Citizen is crap, or Roberts folds camp without producing a finished game, that will be devastating to future crowdfunding efforts.

Honestly, I get the sense that the marketing campaign is designed in large part to promote his wife's acting. But again, they have raised over $140 million for a video game which does not yet exist in anything near a final playable form. That strongly suggests that they know a lot more about marketing than do I.

I know at least one of his games was hammered for not having the promised content and needing unofficial patches to be playable. I remember reading about it then I checked the steam reviews during a steam (or maybe an amazon sale?). This was just before the whole SC mess broke out so the posts/reviews had to be legit on some level. I'm not going to link to the steam feedback now because I am sure they aren't as accurate because SC vs Derek Smart has become a McCoy's vs Hatfield's fight where nobody knows why they are fighting they just like to fight.
I think the game was Defense line or Line of defense or something similarly named

Yeah, this trend of reviewing something you haven't bought to punish someone is just lower than a snake's belly in a wheel rut. That game was Line of Defense, BTW. Apparently the publisher refused to throw any more money at it, so Smart self-funded the necessary patch. I'm not generally impressed by Smart, but that's a damned classy move. He easily could have just blamed the publisher.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Then there’s the recent Chris Roberts interview where he states that with the current level of funding, they would only be able to complete the single player portion of the game (but not SC). This means that Chris's projection of $65 million to complete both SQ42 and SC with all stated stretch goals was far, far off the mark.

And here we are at around $150 million, still without the money necessary to complete the game.

For my money though (and I mean this literally), the most important "prediction" Derek has made is that if you tell CIG you will be informing the AG and the BBB about their conduct, that you will get the refund that you deserve without much fuss. That’s info that’s worth it’s weight in virtual spaceships many times over.

Still looking in all the links you posted where CiG or CR said that "with current funding they would only be able to complete the single player portion of the game".

 

[Chipopo]

Still looking in all the links you posted where CiG or CR said that "with current funding they would only be able to complete the single player portion of the game".

Here's the specific quote:

I'm not worried, because even if no money came in, we would have sufficient funds to complete Squadron 42. The revenue from this could in turn be used for the completion of Star Citizen.

Compare to what Chris has said in the past:

We keep a healthy cash reserve so that if funding stopped tomorrow we would still be able to deliver Star Citizen (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012).

Somewhere between then and $120 million dollars, the cash reserve has become inadequate for completing the game.

 

[rivethead]

If Star Citizen is crap, or Roberts folds camp without producing a finished game, that will be devastating to future crowdfunding efforts.

Why?

There are numerous successful crowd-funded games (Wasteland 2, Divinity Original Sin to name just two...). And we've already had plenty of failures too.

Guess what?

People keep crowd-funding games. World keeps turning.

 

[JSt0rm]

Why?

There are numerous successful crowd-funded games (Wasteland 2, Divinity Original Sin to name just two...). And we've already had plenty of failures too.

Guess what?

People keep crowd-funding games. World keeps turning.

If this fails and it turns out it was a big scheme in the end there will be new laws put on the books with regards to crowdfunding. You can bet on it. Marriages were ruined by guys spending their life savings on this dumb game. Dont think those people who are affected by christ Roberts hand waving are going to just lay down.

Government AG's are already very interested in whats going on with this thing because they are there to protect consumers from fraud.

 

[rivethead]

If this fails and it turns out it was a big scheme in the end there will be new laws put on the books with regards to crowdfunding. You can bet on it. Marriages were ruined by guys spending their life savings on this dumb game. Dont think those people who are affected by christ Roberts hand waving are going to just lay down.

Government AG's are already very interested in whats going on with this thing because they are there to protect consumers from fraud.

This group knows what they're doing: http://freyermuth.net/about-us I don't think they'll have any problems defending against the "CIG ruined my marriage!" claims.

 

[JSt0rm]

This group knows what they're doing: http://freyermuth.net/about-us I don't think they'll have any problems defending against the "CIG ruined my marriage!" claims.

That guy also owns porn sites. Im sure they are in good hands.

 

[JSt0rm]

that was a tickle joke btw. Im proud of it.

 

[chimaxi83]

If this fails and it turns out it was a big scheme in the end there will be new laws put on the books with regards to crowdfunding. You can bet on it. Marriages were ruined by guys spending their life savings on this dumb game. Dont think those people who are affected by christ Roberts hand waving are going to just lay down.

Government AG's are already very interested in whats going on with this thing because they are there to protect consumers from fraud.

Who gives a flying fudge pop if some retard moronic asshats can't pay their rent or keep their wives because they willingly and voluntarily crowdfunded some game?

 

[Red Storm]

Who gives a flying fudge pop if some retard moronic asshats can't pay their rent or keep their wives because they willingly and voluntarily crowdfunded some game?

This.

It's been happening long before SC ever existed, heck it's been happening long before video games existed.

 

[preslove]

I've seen posts on various forums with the same heartbreaking theme: Some guy who grew up with wing Commander & xwing who got some disease or some disabling event who ended up with terrible lives, who managed to scrounge up a couple hundred or thousand bucks to support their dream game to escape into this online world of being a spaceman. Scam artists often take advantage of the disabled, elderly & otherwise vulnerable. So there are real tragedies that happen when a scam artist makes big money on a scheme.

I don't hate the late Tammy Faye Bakker because I dislike the quality of her evangilism, I care because she scammed a bunch of old people (and their family) out of huge portions of their savings. Hopefully, Chris Roberts will be a convicted felon, like her. And, even if I were a failed pastor who criticized the nonexistent theology of the late Ms. Bakker, that wouldn't mean I wasn't correct in condemning an obvious scam artist.

No one cares that Daikatana and Duke nukem forever were troubled developments because those failures were funded by corporations that had made a bunch of money on previous successes. Chris Roberts funded this failure with the money of some rich people and some vulnerable people.

I care more about the vulnerable people than the rich ones, but it all is fraud, which is bad.

Silly me.

 

[aigomorla]

Fair warning, now that r/dereksmart has caught wind of this thread, it's likely to be invaded by some of the most slack-jawed and barely literate yokels modern civ has ever produced. You are more likely to have a coherent discussion with a mashed potato than these folk. Just nod politely and they should lose interest soon enough.

I will BAN EVERYONE who comes in and does not follow rules.
Watch me go Evil Mod very soon at how this thread is heading.

We can always ask moderators nicely to watch this thread for new comers with thread crapping in their mind...

No i have been moderating it, and wanted to get a list ready when the party who knows they goof'd soon finds out they no longer have permission to post in PC Gaming Subform PERIOD.

oh Im not jumping on anyone. I love the cig white knights ready to defend the honor of m'lady - a video game. That makes this thing even more hilarious. Mix in the failed hollywood producer, the tickle porn actress, the internet warlord, a fat man, goons and the largest crowd funding ever done AND the largest video game budget ever in one hilariously stupid thing? Yeah, dis be good.

This is member Attacking (although not directly, but you are still attacking a general audience), and i have asked you already to STOP posting JPGS which have no point but to bait or troll.
I will Remove your access to this subforum and give you a nice vacation IF you do not follow rules for the last time.


This is a final reminder from me.
I am getting very tired at having to follow this thread like a hawk.
If you can not get a civil discussion going on, well, you just shouldn't type on this forum.
If you guys cant follow rules, well i'll just close this thread, and in the future not allow things like this ever again.
Oh some of you guys may also notice your permission to post here will be revoked if it comes down to it, like how they do in Video Cards, and a petition required to get permission back.

But this is my last fair warning.
Follow the rules or DONT POST AT ALL IN THIS THREAD.


PC Gaming Moderator Aigo.