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Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

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rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,556
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All of those IMDB shows are Star Citizen shows produced by the community managers (Jared and Tyler with Thomas doing the filming). I think Chris' name is on them only by virtue of being the CEO of CIG. They're little more than fancy podcasts. They are supposedly exclusively paid for by subscriber money, not game development funds.
 

Ranulf

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2001
1,606
138
106
We all know we speculatively gambled on a future product and no one (including CIG) even knows what that product is going to look like.
And that doesn't bother you? Hell, that is my biggest complaint with them. It was first with the hangar jerk off material and constant updates of throwing more features while not even having a baseline engine/game and then the seemingly endless promotions. Less talky, more worky.

Can somebody explain to me ,what is deal with this video?
The joke is that if you say/type Derek Smart's name 3 times in a row, it will summon him to your forum/website etc.. DS has a reputation for vigorously defending himself all over the net over the years. At times great for driving traffic to your site.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
One day i send to my friend link to cig ship costs. He wonted to play sc but as soon he look at prices he sad: f*** that,they are not normal...
You can play SC for as little as $45. When the game leaves alpha all ships will be earnable in the game. No need to spend anything but $45. If you want to have it and SQ42, you can pay $60.

Once the game is in retail, each will probably be $60. No one forces any backer to pay anything else.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
Yea, Husky's using bad facts and misleading information, and put together a very nicely written but basically misguided post.

He's here to troll folks. Sorry, but come on.





I warned you once already.

Now, stay out of this thread.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director[p/b]
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
How rich CR is only his accountant knows...Depends of luxury expenses, bad or good investments and so on... But i think this is more the case of greed. I'll get back to this later...


One day i send to my friend link to cig ship costs. He wonted to play sc but as soon he look at prices he sad: f*** that,they are not normal...


You are the only one complaining about title of the thread. The rest of us are more concerned about info in this thread.

I was quite nice surprised that there are few star citizens who can talk like adults about issues of sc. I can't expect all are like that.

And according to my research you will play alpha for few more years :D You are bias about star citizen and we can't expect adult conversation about cig from you...
We all are hibernating vegetables and we need to get some air so we can use our brains one day...

140 millions is not end of it. We got few more years of waiting at least...

So my question is this: Is Cris Roberst greedy little b**** According to imdb he is so busy, that i was wondering my self how the hell he finds time to make a game on such a big scale. Or is he planning to make this game 20 years?

Around the Verse (TV Series) (executive producer - 96 episodes)
- 304 Frankfurt (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Manchester Update (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Adam Really Went for It (2016) ... (executive producer)
- The Road to 2.4 (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Buccaneerish Interlude (2016) ... (executive producer)
Show all 96 episodes
2015-2016 Bugsmashers! (TV Series) (executive producer - 26 episodes)
- Episode #1.26 (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Episode #1.25 (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Episode #1.24 (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Episode #1.23 (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Episode #1.22 (2016) ... (executive producer)
Show all 26 episodes
2015-2016 The Wonderful World of Star Citizen (TV Series) (executive producer - 8 episodes)
- Imperial News Network (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Captain Richard (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Mr. Combustible (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Bored Gamer (2016) ... (executive producer)
- Deejay Knight (2016) ... (executive producer)
Show all 8 episodes
2013-2016 Ten for the Chairman (TV Series) (executive producer - 22 episodes)
- 10 for the Developers #08 (2016) ... (executive producer)
- 10 for the Chairman #84 (2016) ... (executive producer)
- 10 for the Chairman #83 (2016) ... (executive producer)
- 10 for the Chairman #82 (2016) ... (executive producer)
- 10 for the Chairman #81 (2016) ... (executive producer)
Show all 22 episodes
2015 Reverse the Verse (TV Series) (executive producer)
2014 The Next Great Starship (TV Series) (executive producer - 16 episodes)
- Live Season One Finale (2014) ... (executive producer)
- Episode #1.16 (2014) ... (executive producer)
- Episode #1.15 (2014) ... (executive producer)
- Episode #1.14 (2014) ... (executive producer)
- Episode #1.13 (2014) ... (executive producer)
Show all 16 episodes
2012 Wingman's Hangar (TV Series) (executive producer - 2012-)

source:http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0730932/
Dude, you're going to go as far as to dig up all this IMDB stuff, but you don't realize these are just community videos and CR is always going to be executive producer? No wonder you're confused. You have no idea what you're talking about nor what is going on.

Seriously, your comment "So my question is this: Is Cris Roberst greedy little b**** According to imdb he is so busy, that i was wondering my self how the hell he finds time to make a game on such a big scale. Or is he planning to make this game 20 years?" gives you away. You're displaying wanton ignorance and feigning concern. There's literally no reason for you to think CR is being greedy based on imdb links. You're making up stuff to be concerned about.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
But i get only one ship right? I wouldn't enjoy game if all players would rape my little poor ship with their awesome machines -.-
How are you so concerned about SC but you don't know how ship pledges work? It doesn't add up.

It's like someone who spends all day ranting about Common Core but doesn't even know what it is.

CR is greedy! Look at imdb links! How do ship pledges work?

Why are you here?
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
I joined anadtech as Derek Smart supporter. My account was sleeping until now, when another of our friends opened this thread. It was time to wake our secret forces to go to war. -.-
Derek smart has had a long history of seeding alt accounts in social media sites. I wouldn't be surprised.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
But i get only one ship right? I wouldn't enjoy game if all players would rape my little poor ship with their awesome machines -.-
That's not how the game will work. The universe will be 90% NPCs. Other players could have larger ships, sure. However, they have higher operating costs and manning requirements. Also, as it is right now, single seat fighters walk all over the larger ships. The game will be skills based. Bigger ships are not automatically better and can be worse for general tasks.

A giant Idris manned by one guy would not "rape" a starter ship. While he was trying to point a gun at you, you could just fly away before he could get up and man the helm to chase you.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
That's not how the game will work. The universe will be 90% NPCs. Other players could have larger ships, sure. However, they have higher operating costs and manning requirements. Also, as it is right now, single seat fighters walk all over the larger ships. The game will be skills based. Bigger ships are not automatically better and can be worse for general tasks.

A giant Idris manned by one guy would not "rape" a starter ship. While he was trying to point a gun at you, you could just fly away before he could get up and man the helm to chase you.
He might be a good, smart guy, but he's just concern trolling. He doesn't know how it works nor does he care. He just wants to poke at SC supporters using low hanging fruit.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
He might be a good, smart guy, but he's just concern trolling. He doesn't know how it works nor does he care. He just wants to poke at SC supporters using low hanging fruit.
Kill 'em with kindness. I'm in a mood to be informative.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,061
353
136
The exact same "out" also exists in the kickstarter TOS, so there's really no difference between pledges made through kickstarter or directly to CIG with the new TOS.

Relevant parts of the Kickstarter TOS:



"Remaining funds" in the Kickstarter TOS is for all intents and purposes the exact same as "unearned pledge" in the CIG TOS.

In other words whether you're covered by the Kickstarter TOS or the CIG TOS, chances are that you will be entitled to a refund of absolutely nothing, since these kind of crowdfunded projects generally only fail if they run out of money, and thus have no remaining funds to refund. That's the risk of crowdfunding.



As mentioned above the Kickstarter TOS has the exact same cover, so every single game crowdfunded through there is similar to Star Citizen in this regard. CIG including the same clause in their own TOS, is thus simply a continuation of the kickstarter TOS.
As I said, it might be nothing. What raised an eyebrow from me was they changed it to add the clause in case they don't finish the game. That wasn't there before (at least in the old one I looked at) so this was them covering themselves in the chance it doesn't come out. It's the only time I've seen them say it might not show up. Again, it might be nothing, but their burn rate has to be huge, so there's a chance if they're having more issues there might be a problem. It could also just be someone making sure they're covered in all cases like insurance, and there's nothing to worry about, the problems corrected and the game will be out next year.

I think somebody fixed this issue :D Maybe we should all thank SLU Aequitas? :D
<Snip>



How rich CR is only his accountant knows...Depends of luxury expenses, bad or good investments and so on... But i think this is more the case of greed. I'll get back to this later...
I honestly don't care how much CR is worth. It's not the person so much as the company for me. As long as he's not embezzling millions to line his own pockets, what he's earned before this is his business. If he is somehow embezzling (which I really don't think is the case) then that's a different story. Until someone proves beyond doubt that's the case, I don't get the personal attacks on him. He's not the best leader, and does appear to cause drama for his staff with his feature creep (I know I'll piss someone off by using that phrase, but come on.. that's what it is) but those are all his actions.. not the man himself. If anything, I'd like to see this thread kept clean on personal attacks on him and DS.



That's what bothers me. There's no specifics. You can blind follow like we know who or you can only guess and try to figure it out...
I get it's crowdfunding, but even then there's only so much one has a right to know. I'm not sure people should get a complete accounting of the money in any case, as all that does it open the doors for someone like DS to say they misspent because they didn't know about some dealer in Hong Kong. Having said that, there is a major question on why we're still not seeing anything close to a game with all the tiem and money they've spent. I can see why people want to have a better understanding on how their pledges are spent.

I was thinking if cig forced new TOS to backers from kickstarter. You know when u install new software or game and u got TOS, u always just press i accept. Nobody reads those..Did they put new TOS in new launcher with rule like that for example: If u install this version of star citizen u agree that from now on u lose kickstarter TOS and you get cig TOS
I don't know if the new TOS will be included with the next installs.. I would image it would. It's a smart move on their part to make sure they've covered that. It's just disturbing as I wouldn't know what to say if after all that money they weren't able to release. It would make 38 Studios look like a lightweight in fuck ups.

One day i send to my friend link to cig ship costs. He wonted to play sc but as soon he look at prices he sad: f*** that,they are not normal...
<snip>
It's what people are willing to spend.. I can't get my head around people willing to do it, but it's not my money. I've seen guys spend thousands on collectibles, so I cant' say I'm surprised. I personally would at least like to have a clue when the ship I've paid hundreds for will be playable, but that's me.

Direct sale was from the start according to this:
Perhaps most impressive, only $2.1 million of that $52 million came from a traditional crowdfunding site, Kickstarter. The rest was raised through a campaign Roberts runs himself, eliminating the fees that most entrepreneurs must pay to crowdfunding middlemen.

source:http://www.cnbc.com/2014/09/23/the-man-who-made-50-million-ditching-kickstarter.html
One thing I can not ever take away from them.. they found a way to keep funding coming in. It's impressive how they've continued to milk money. I'm not sure anyone else could have done it. I'm still not too sure how they've done it. If anything, this should be a wake up call to the industry that space shooters need to be a thing again... and yes, I know this is soooooo much more. I'm just saying.. space sim games are in short supply, which is one of the major reasons I think they've made as much as they have.

Yea, Husky's using bad facts and misleading information, and put together a very nicely written but basically misguided post.

He's here to troll folks. Sorry, but come on.
Seriously.. you keep saying anyone that says anything negative is a troll. Maybe not everyone is as educated on the subject as you, it doesn't make them a troll.. If this is all you're going to do when someone posts, maybe you should take the advice you give in the SC game thread and leave.
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
Seriously.. you keep saying anyone that says anything negative is a troll. Maybe not everyone is as educated on the subject as you, it doesn't make them a troll.. If this is all you're going to do when someone posts, maybe you should take the advice you give in the SC game thread and leave.
I'm saying anybody that's in here to troll is a troll, and there's trolling being done here. If someone posts a FUD post that's clearly disingenuous, I'll call it out for what it is.

It's not about being more educated, it's coming off as being educated when you know nothing about something that's the problem. You have posters in here laying completely unfounded claims and basically doing the 'derek smart concern trolling' routine that made derek smart the troll he is.... and the title has his name in it. This thread was trolling from the start. Maybe from the average user this seems paranoid, but this is a common occurance in SC related discussions to the point if you even say Derek Smart in SC's twitch channel you get instabanned.

So I apologize if some don't recognize the trolls here.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,556
82
91
And that doesn't bother you?
Nope. That's the "speculatively gambled" part of my contribution (and I know others feel the same way). It's like a lottery ticket. Everyone once in awhile, I'll buy one, but I don't ever expect anything in return.

I threw money at this so CIG could try to do something that hadn't been done before. The very fact it hadn't been done before means there's a high probability of failure.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
Here's TechBoyJK again calling everyone with an opposing opinion of Star Citizen a troll.
Here's AdamK47 making stuff up.

I didn't call anybody with a negative opinion a troll, I called the trolls trolls. I know many here don't recognize this entire thread is a troll attempt.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
As I said, it might be nothing. What raised an eyebrow from me was they changed it to add the clause in case they don't finish the game. That wasn't there before (at least in the old one I looked at) so this was them covering themselves in the chance it doesn't come out. It's the only time I've seen them say it might not show up. Again, it might be nothing, but their burn rate has to be huge, so there's a chance if they're having more issues there might be a problem. It could also just be someone making sure they're covered in all cases like insurance, and there's nothing to worry about, the problems corrected and the game will be out next year.
There's nothing to be worked up about. This is standard EULA activity. I'd wager just about every software developer in history has modified their terms to better protect them at some point in their career. IMHO you have to be wanting to find something nefarious to really dwell on the EULA thing.
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,758
261
126
As I said, it might be nothing. What raised an eyebrow from me was they changed it to add the clause in case they don't finish the game. That wasn't there before (at least in the old one I looked at) so this was them covering themselves in the chance it doesn't come out. It's the only time I've seen them say it might not show up. Again, it might be nothing, but their burn rate has to be huge, so there's a chance if they're having more issues there might be a problem. It could also just be someone making sure they're covered in all cases like insurance, and there's nothing to worry about, the problems corrected and the game will be out next year.
I understand why it might seem a bit weird, but it's worth noting that while the original ToS didn't contain this clause, it also didn't contain anything about rights to a refund.

In other words the new ToS is actually better in this regard since unlike the old one, it actually allows for refunds (albeit under terms that are so strict that they are essentially impossible to meet).

The inclusion of the mention of failing to finish the game, was probably only included due to them also including the rights to a refund, to allow CIG limit said right. Under the old ToS there was no need to include this limitation, since refunds weren't allowed at all.

Regarding their burn rate, I doubt it's all that big really, probably no more than $0.5-1 million a month currently. Remember burn rate is not the same as expenses, burn rate is expenses minus revenue (aka. negative cash flow). Derek Smart often makes this mistake in his missives, so I can understand if one might think CIGs burn rate is multiple millions, but if one uses the correct definition of burn rate (which is of course the only one that matters), then that is extremely unlikely.

I don't know if the new TOS will be included with the next installs.. I would image it would. It's a smart move on their part to make sure they've covered that. It's just disturbing as I wouldn't know what to say if after all that money they weren't able to release. It would make 38 Studios look like a lightweight in fuck ups.
The ToS itself actually mentions how amendments are handled:

The RSI Terms may be amended from time to time with respect to operational and similar matters (e.g. code of conduct, gameplay etc.). We will notify you by email, via the Website or during log in of any amendments that are going to be made by us in advance of the such amendments taking effect and will invite you to accept our new RSI Terms. If you do not accept such new RSI Terms, you may no longer be able to access the RSI Services (or any part thereof).
Legally speaking acceptance of these things are somewhat of a grey area though. If I'm not mistaken courts have ruled in the past that the standard boiler plate EULAs that everyone just skips through and press accept are often not enforceable.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
I like to pay full price for full game. To be able to drive one ship wouldn't be enough for me. I rather wait for a star citizen to be finished if it will be and pay full price for full game without any restrictions. Unless the game will be pay to have a ship, then I would skip the whole game.
Right now it's more of a sandbox than a game. I don't think we'll get a feel for the full scope of actual gameplay until the 3.0 iteration. Fortunately they've demonstrated in great detail most of these features along with the tech and how it's integrated. This along with their past history has me confident we'll get there. Just don't follow their target dates and bank on them. CIG is following an 'its done when its done' approach to help guarantee quality, and I like that.

I don't mind paying full price for games. I love the Far Cry series, and the fully fleshed out game really brings the experience together. Sure it might be fun to play around in a pre-release sandbox iteration of the game, but I'd anticipate it to be a 'far cry' from the finished product.

With Star Citizen, I see my current investment as a pledge and the ship I received as a token of thanks. The gameplay I have now isn't what I expect in the game. Right now I realize I'm just noodling around in a pre-release sandbox. It just happens to be fun for me.

If you just want to wait for the game to be more fleshed out, that's totally reasonable. Those of us making pledges just want it to get fleshed out one way or another.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,061
353
136
I'm saying anybody that's in here to troll is a troll, and there's trolling being done here. If someone posts a FUD post that's clearly disingenuous, I'll call it out for what it is.

It's not about being more educated, it's coming off as being educated when you know nothing about something that's the problem. You have posters in here laying completely unfounded claims and basically doing the 'derek smart concern trolling' routine that made derek smart the troll he is.... and the title has his name in it. This thread was trolling from the start. Maybe from the average user this seems paranoid, but this is a common occurance in SC related discussions to the point if you even say Derek Smart in SC's twitch channel you get instabanned.

So I apologize if some don't recognize the trolls here.
What I find strange is, with sources like DS out there, how can you be surprised that people have the wrong info? There are a few places that talk about SC's issues, and some of it is wrong. Calling someone a troll because they have the wrong info is like calling someone that didn't share an education stupid. If anything, you'd think that it would be an area to explain the truth.. instead you focus on low post counts, and calling people trolls.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,398
781
126
I actually get a kick out of it when he knee-jerk calls people trolls. We should have a TechBoyJK troll count scoreboard.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
20,894
2,706
136
OK people stop with the name calling and insults.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
I like to pay full price for full game. To be able to drive one ship wouldn't be enough for me. I rather wait for a star citizen to be finished if it will be and pay full price for full game without any restrictions. Unless the game will be pay to have a ship, then I would skip the whole game.
Ships sales stop when alpha stops. After that the only way to acquire them is through in-game means. If you would rather wait and pay full price, I whole heartedly support it. I was only mentioning that to counter the crazy ship prices (which are more pledges for support than anything). There's no "I win" ship once the persistent universe is live.

This game is still following a crowd funded and early access style. It's not for everyone and if you'd rather wait I encourage you to do so and pick up the game when it hits retail.
 
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