Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

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Ranulf

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2001
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So you have no stake in this. Good to know.

Star Citizen wasn't an investment. I work in FS, I know investments :) If you think a KS project is any form of an investment, we got bigger issues to talk about.
Well, I dunno. In this thread alone we have people who did invest in digital space ships (that you can't fly yet in game) and then sold them (hopefully for profit). So far, you have an alpha space-sim game and people buying/trading virtual space ships game.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,737
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Investment - source wikipedia

To invest is to allocate money (or sometimes another resource, such as time) in the expectation of some benefit in the future. ... .
Kickstarter is really patronage not investment in a financial sense. You give someone money in the hope that they can make something exist which otherwise would not. You do not share in any profits, you do not own any company stock.

Also, you seem to be ignoring SLU Aequitas's post above where he explained how the backers / patrons voted to increase the scope and push back the delivery.

( https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/is-derek-smart-right.2493837/page-3#post-38622794 )
 
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DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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Kickstarter is like arts patronage. We are the nobles, we give the artists money to paint a mural or build a video game.

Yes, we are supposed to end up with a painting or video game, but art is not always completed on schedule. (And software development almost never is.)
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,737
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You are a noble and give a builder 100 gold coins to build a church for the Christians. Yes, they are then obligated to build that church. But it might take longer than the 3 years that the builder said it would.

Or you pay Haydn to write a new symphony. Composers can't always produce new music as fast as you want them to,

People have been waiting a long long time for the next Game of Thrones book :)
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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Actually i don't see any issues if people can get refunds. Can they get refunds?
I don't think they are legally obligated to offer refunds. The Kickstarter terms do not say they must do that if a project is late, only if "they do not or cannot fulfill." In other words, if development stops. (I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.)

RSI's own terms of service said for Kickstarter backers that refunds were available if the project was more than 18 months late. They have changed this for new, non-Kickstarter backers to only offer refunds if development stops.
 

IEC

Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
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Actually i don't see any issues if people can get refunds. Can they get refunds?
I don't know the official answer, but I know if you ask nicely they tend to oblige based on what I've seen on forums.

Well, I dunno. In this thread alone we have people who did invest in digital space ships (that you can't fly yet in game) and then sold them (hopefully for profit). So far, you have an alpha space-sim game and people buying/trading virtual space ships game.
I apparently chose the correct time to sell my ships, as they no longer command a premium due to the cheap LTI --> cross-class upgrade system. Despite making a tidy profit, Star Citizen's epic delays have soured me on the business model and I won't make the mistake of preordering any PC game again.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
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I listened to the whole one hour video omg... But if the part with space doors is true for 10 000 dollars, i would run like crazy from star citizen with my money :D
It's not. The door was done for nearly free and is actuated by a common garage door opener.

Derek Smart likes to assert many things, few of which are based in fact.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,737
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Source kickstarter:
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

  • they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
  • they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
  • they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
  • they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
  • they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
Yes, if they stop development they are not allowed to keep any money that has not already been spent.

Yes, like I already said, if they stop development they are supposed to offer refunds.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make since they have no plans to stop development.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
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Like I said, this thread is likely just DS goons. Nobody believes DS except his goons.

Derek Smart is like a broken clock. Sure he's right sometimes, but he's usually just bat shit crazy.

He's a washed up failure who's remarkably jealous of Chris Roberts. That's the story.




You cannot call people goons.

Stop it now.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
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I listened to the whole one hour video omg... But if the part with space doors is true for 10 000 dollars, i would run like crazy from star citizen with my money :D
This is the crap I'm talking about. People are making stuff up, then you have people coming in here and spreading it.

Thread should be locked as this is clearly a troll thread.

The only people still throwing shade are those who invested in the idea that SC was a scam, and are doing damage control as their fallacy is exposed.
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
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I like this thread was opened. I had questions before, but i didn't wont to ask them in star citizen thread cause of few reasons. First was i didn't wanna thread crap, second star citizens are agresive together :) and you can't get answer cause of it :) and i like having thread where I can ask few questions which are interested for me :)

So how much was those doors? If they are so cheap I would like something like this for my gaming room -.-
Why are you concerned about the doors? It's important to foster a creative environment and these doors are basic pocket doors. I'm literally on break while installing a pocket door in my basement where my gaming and music equipment is.

*If you don't believe me, here's a link to another anandtech thread talking about it from over a week ago. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/installing-a-pocket-door-36-or-42-wide.2493471/)

Seriously, you're bitching about it while I'm doing it.

Pocket doors aren't a big deal, even if you manage to install hydraulics and an electronic trigger of some sort. NBD for a studio filled with engineers and creative folk. I don't know how they built theirs.. if they did it custom or just used a kit, but I could get that done with 2 of these <$120 kits, plus the costs of the doors and trim. So maybe $1,000?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Johnson-Hardware-1500-Series-Pocket-Door-Frame-for-Doors-up-to-36-in-x-80-in-153068HD/100658057


One of my hosting clients (we host about 300 of their gaming servers) has a headquarters that looks like a space ship. You're worried about a door?



The doors are a non-issue. Please stop concern trolling.
 
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clok1966

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2004
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This thread is going off rails, one SINGLE guy is calling everybody TROLLS after any comment that questions anything on SC and keeps saying we all are part of some conspiracy by one guy (DS). Its fine to defend the game, Please do, but with facts not "he's a DS troll" each time. I am sure any actual facts pro or con would be taken in context, so please keep it to that. Anytime name calling is done in a post it pretty much shows the level of maturity and doesn't help your side (again pro or con). This should be a discussion, not a whine fest but either side of the debate.
 
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SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
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Well this is thread is going 100% as expected.

Do I trust DS? No
Is it possible he is correct on at least something? Probably

Do I trust Chris R.? Not really
Do I think SC is running behind schedule? Yes, its clear that there is at least some disconnect between when they say something( eg. 2.6/3.0) will be released and when it actually releases.


I backed the OG Kickstarter with a Physical Colonel pack at $125. It has long been melted and I now have way more money in the project. In my eyes I never saw it as funding just a game but also a game company. I realize that takes time and money. I haven't been pleased with all the decisions that have been made and I'm getting a little tired of delays but I'm not losing sleep over it. I take everything Chris says with a grain of salt yet I have complete faith in his brother Erin and Brian Chambers. The whole Illfonic debacle was a complete and giant miss-step that I saw coming the first day I read rumors about FPS being outsourced. On the other hand I think both Foundry 42 UK and Germany are the best things that have happened since development started and without them game would be dead.

At the end of the day I'll be disappointed if the game fails but I funded it knowing full well I might never see a return.

As an aside one of my bigger peeves lately is the live streams. They've been having them for years but it seems like each one is still amateur hour and nobody has a clue what they are doing.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
This thread is going off rails, one SINGLE guy is calling everybody TROLLS after any comment that questions anything on SC and keeps saying we all are part of some conspiracy by one guy (DS). Its fine to defend the game, Please do, but with facts not "he's a DS troll" each time. I am sure any actual facts pro or con would be taken in context, so please keep it to that. Anytime name calling is done in a post it pretty much shows the level of maturity and doesn't help your side (again pro or con). This should be a discussion, not a whine fest but either side of the debate.
The problem is most of the posts are 'concerned' about things that Derek Smart made up and threw a fit about. So it's directly related to people who believe him and then come here and post his lies.

This is a troll thread. It's obvious.
 

SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
1,252
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WTF I wasn't posting here

<ORIGINAL> OP, when you do get one make sure you get or order more sheer pins. They don't break often but it sucks having to use it at half power because you hit a chunk of ice.
I also recommend keeping the package where you won't lose it.
YOU CANT HIDE THAT FROM US, ice planets and sheer pins confirmed. Fanatical Meat is obviously CR's alt.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,420
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What is Illfonic debacle?
CIG hired Ilfonic to create the FPS game play mechanics. But CIG forgot to tell them about sizes and scales. Ilfonic repeatedly asked for direction. CIG gave them none. Ilfonic delivered a product. It didn't fit the rest of the game being made. The scales were off. The assets/code created by Ilfonic were mostly trashed. CIG wasted a good chunk of backer money (and a whole lot of time) by not managing an out-sourced vendor very well.

Subsequently, most things have now been brought in-house.
 

Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
660
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Seriously guys, this might be Derek Smart himself making this post. Nobody cares about DS, and he's known for using fake accounts and his few deluded minions into drumming up hate on social media.

"Is Derek Smart right" by an account with a few posts. And the only user that's basically shitting on CIG has 2 posts.

I say lock thread.
So, I'm not Derek Smart. I guess 600 something posts over a span of 4+ years is a "low post count" to you, but it seems like an awful amount of trouble (not to mention foresight) to go through just to back some opinions on a developing game. I'm not his fan or devotee either, I am openly questioning him. I had no idea who he was (or Chris Roberts) before this. His antics seem obsessive, but I feel like he might have made a few good points. Think of this as a fact-checking effort, if you will. Who better to ask than the guys who have been following this game closely for years?

Estimated delivery Nov 2014
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

Today date : december 10 2016

What kinda car Chris Roberts drives? How expensive is his house? Where does he goes on holidays? Does he have any yachts? Plane? How much expensive wines he drinks? Did he likes to milk people so he enjoys luxury?

Finished product wasn't delivered on time. If everybody would do business like he is, we would be all naked and starved to death...
This is my concern. CR and the gang have a golden goose here. It would be a shame to see them run off with a ton of money while leaving behind a half-assed game. Are we going to get the proper bang for our buck? I get that the money was freely given, and that for most it wasn't the giving of their financial life-blood. But for them to party hardy instead of diligently using the funds for game development....it would leave me feeling salty to say the least.

Thread should be locked as this is clearly a troll thread.
False.

This is a thread to discuss the development of SC. I made it after reading Derek's (Or Derekt apparently....what's that all about?) shattered dreams blog post. I had read his initial rant a year ago and mostly shrugged it off. As time goes on though, it gets harder to ignore what he said, jealously aside.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
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This is my concern. CR and the gang have a golden goose here. It would be a shame to see them run off with a ton of money while leaving behind a half-assed game. Are we going to get the proper bang for our buck? I get that the money was freely given, and that for most it wasn't the giving of their financial life-blood. But for them to party hardy instead of diligently using the funds for game development....it would leave me feeling salty to say the least.
It's quite unlikely they would have any money to run off with. They have the expenses of operating four studios across three countries with 300 employees. Most estimates show they're roughly keeping up with expenditures year over year. Plus the expenses of hiring an A-list cast for SQ42, renting out Imaginarium Studios for performance capture, setting their own small performance capture studios for animation updates, etc.

CR was rich before he started CIG. He'd have nothing to gain for fleecing backers and ruining his nostalgic reputation from the Wing Commander and Starlancer days. This is part of why I'm happy they increased the scope of the project from the original pitch. They could have let that money keep rolling in and deliver what they originally sold us, but they kept adding as backers said they wanted more. After a while they called it quits on stretch goals, but the idea is that all that additional funding has gone into the game development. We could've gotten a Wing Commander spiritual successor and CR could've run off with $100M at this point. Instead, we have four studios churning away at the most ambitious gaming project to date.
 

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