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Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

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Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,214
215
106
Oh I think they'll continue to offer cosmetic items for money, which is the right way to do micro-transactions in my opinion.

As for the grind, every game has a grind, it's a matter of making sure that grind isn't god awful annoying (looking at you Elite Dangerous).
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,255
3,802
126
the reality is nobody knows the gameplay. However that last demo they did with the multiple people that crashed was a simple go get thing a and bring to place x. And they were doing it with end game level ships. That tells me the grind will be horrible.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,214
215
106
the reality is nobody knows the gameplay. However that last demo they did with the multiple people that crashed was a simple go get thing a and bring to place x. And they were doing it with end game level ships. That tells me the grind will be horrible.
So you don't know the game play, but you also know it will be a horrible grind?

There's a finite number of things you can do in a game like this. Combat, trade, explore pretty much covers everything. Some people really enjoy space hauling, so I don't see it would only have to be done in starter ships. As long as you can do all 3 at each stage of the game (beginner, middle, "endgame") I will be happy.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,255
3,802
126
So you don't know the game play, but you also know it will be a horrible grind?

There's a finite number of things you can do in a game like this. Combat, trade, explore pretty much covers everything. Some people really enjoy space hauling, so I don't see it would only have to be done in starter ships. As long as you can do all 3 at each stage of the game (beginner, middle, "endgame") I will be happy.
Thats exactly what you do in elite dangerous but you dont like it. So whats the solution? I've seen lots of theory crafting about all the little things you can do in starcitizen. The reality is its the same bull as anything else. Eve probably has the best gameplay of any space game and thats just because of all the emergent gameplay.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,012
329
136
Oh I think they'll continue to offer cosmetic items for money, which is the right way to do micro-transactions in my opinion.

As for the grind, every game has a grind, it's a matter of making sure that grind isn't god awful annoying (looking at you Elite Dangerous).
I'm OK with grinding, but only to a point. If it makes other people happy then more power to them (both the devs and the players) but when I see people treat a game like a job where they grind for 8+ hours a day to get some odd thing, like a house in the game, I think it's stupid. I don't get it.. I've seen it a few times with a few different games and depending on the game how many people I know that do it. I just don't get it. I'd rather spend that time figuring out a way to improve my real life. Again, if it's something that makes people happy more power to them. I just can't see spending months to earn enough in game money to get a house in the game.. The Sims is an extreme case of what I speak of. It blew my mind on how many people wasted time grinding it like it was real life..

IF the devs get all they've promised SC doesn't look like it'd be that bad of a thing as they're other things to do. I couldn't imagine being one of those people that want to be a hauler and spend hours moving cargo like it's a real job. Again, if it makes them happy then no harm no foul. <<Insert more disclaimers here>>
 

book_ed

Member
Apr 8, 2016
29
0
6
Battlefield was selleing packs with the unlocks for a long time (which meant some people would get better stuff from the start), I don't remember an outcry of "pay to win".

Also, if you really want to get in early, play as much as possible to level up and have all the nice stuff before every one else, sure, there is an issue with people already having better items. But (imagine everyone would start with the same ship), if you don't jump on the game from the beginning and you join the party later on, there are already people people having spent a lot of time to learn the mechanics, to unlock and buy better than the starter stuff, etc., there is no difference between this and the concept behind the current backing of the game.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,214
215
106
Thats exactly what you do in elite dangerous but you dont like it. So whats the solution? I've seen lots of theory crafting about all the little things you can do in starcitizen. The reality is its the same bull as anything else. Eve probably has the best gameplay of any space game and thats just because of all the emergent gameplay.
Elite has its mile wide but inch deep ocean of game play. The game needs so much QOL improvements but right now it's the only thing out there that satisfies my flying in space itch. EVE doesn't come close, you aren't even flying a ship, you're just clicking around like any old MMO. It does do the economy right, probably the best economy system I've seen in any game, but that's it IMHO. I don't feel like I'm actually piloting a space ship in EVE.

The solution is provide the simulation feeling (you're actually piloting a ship), with engaging content for both multiplayer and single player (Elite fails at this, their mission system could be so much better), without making you feel stuck in a cockpit. I feel like SC will do it better than Elite did, and I'm fine waiting it out.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,255
3,802
126
Elite has its mile wide but inch deep ocean of game play. The game needs so much QOL improvements but right now it's the only thing out there that satisfies my flying in space itch. EVE doesn't come close, you aren't even flying a ship, you're just clicking around like any old MMO. It does do the economy right, probably the best economy system I've seen in any game, but that's it IMHO. I don't feel like I'm actually piloting a space ship in EVE.

The solution is provide the simulation feeling (you're actually piloting a ship), with engaging content for both multiplayer and single player (Elite fails at this, their mission system could be so much better), without making you feel stuck in a cockpit. I feel like SC will do it better than Elite did, and I'm fine waiting it out.
The network needed to have that many ships flying around is impossible. Eve has issues with thier big battles and it’s very little net stuff to move around. Star citizen as promised is a pipe dream.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
Agreed. The pricing scheme for Dual Universe isn't that great either. It looks like it ultimately will be a monthly fee mmo.
Come on, dude. We’re talking rendering much of a galaxy down to the human level. The only way that possibly makes financial sense if if there is some recurring income stream. Either it will be a monthly fee MMO, have most of its content in DLCs, or have micro transactions out the ass. Same for Star Citizen.

I do agree that Dual Universe will probably launch first. It’s simply a much less ambitious game. Of course, the most ambitious game (or the most gorgeous game) is not necessarily the most fun game. That remains to be seen.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
I'm OK with grinding, but only to a point. If it makes other people happy then more power to them (both the devs and the players) but when I see people treat a game like a job where they grind for 8+ hours a day to get some odd thing, like a house in the game, I think it's stupid. I don't get it.. I've seen it a few times with a few different games and depending on the game how many people I know that do it. I just don't get it. I'd rather spend that time figuring out a way to improve my real life. Again, if it's something that makes people happy more power to them. I just can't see spending months to earn enough in game money to get a house in the game.. The Sims is an extreme case of what I speak of. It blew my mind on how many people wasted time grinding it like it was real life..

IF the devs get all they've promised SC doesn't look like it'd be that bad of a thing as they're other things to do. I couldn't imagine being one of those people that want to be a hauler and spend hours moving cargo like it's a real job. Again, if it makes them happy then no harm no foul. <<Insert more disclaimers here>>
I agree completely. But Roberts has sold ships for thousands of dollars; the only way that is practical (and avoids class action lawsuits) is if it takes hundreds of game hours to get those ships. It’s also a highly difficult thing to balance combat, so that whales don’t wipe out ordinary players. I think though that this kind of conundrum is inherently more easily solved than creating the necessary procedural tools to semi-automate system creation, and they did that.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,593
307
126
Once the industry decided they couldn't charge a monthly fee for mmos is about the time they all turned really terrible.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,255
3,802
126
Once the industry decided they couldn't charge a monthly fee for mmos is about the time they all turned really terrible.
Oh they could charge a monthly fee but they found that people pay way more then the monthly fee in the free to play games. I mean just look how much people spend on space ship jpegs.
 
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preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,760
60
91
The network needed to have that many ships flying around is impossible. Eve has issues with thier big battles and it’s very little net stuff to move around. Star citizen as promised is a pipe dream.
Seriously. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand. Roberts promised features that are impossible to implement with network & server tech that will exist in the foreseeable future.

I remember reading how he wanted the game engine to model every single thruster on every player ship. Yeah, you're not getting big ship battles with that level of detail, you moron
 
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Mandres

Senior member
Jun 8, 2011
918
46
91
Seriously. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand. Roberts promised features that are impossible to implement with network & server tech that will exist in the foreseeable future.

I remember reading how he wanted the game engine to model ever single thruster on every player ship. Yeah, you're not getting big ship battles with that level of detail, you moron
It'll probably end up as a multiplayer game in the same way that No Man's Sky did. With no mutiplayer game whatsoever.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,760
60
91
It'll probably end up as a multiplayer game in the same way that No Man's Sky did. With no mutiplayer game whatsoever.
No man's sky had a functioning game on release. CIG is going to shove out a broken piece of garbage to avoid getting sued
 

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