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Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

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Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,105
400
136
It isn't a logical fallacy. Elite dangerous and SC are basically the same game, but one is well planned and funtional, and the other is a stillborn clusterF
I'm not saying that Elite Dangerous isn't a good or bad game, nor am I saying that SC is or isn't a scam.. I am saying though that the logic that just because people gave money to SC means that ED didn't get the money is a fallacy. There's no proof nor anyway to prove that the money would have gone there if SC didn't exist.

As far as the scam parts of SC.. I do find it interesting that it's really split on if it is or isn't. I tend to think it is based upon the fact it's so late and they're continuing to sell jpegs of ships without including when they'll be ready. I can't deny though that people like TechboyJK are really happy with what they have. I get the impression that even if SC shut down today people like TechboyJK would still feel they got their moneys worth. It's hard to call that a scam. I guess it really depends on what you expect out of it and what you get.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,795
574
126
I think I'm in for $100 from the original push and I've been in the I don't really care, wait and see camp for a long time. I will say if you assume there's no scam, it's painfully obvious scope creep and prioritization of game systems and mechanics has been pretty grossly mismanaged. It's also very telling SQ42 is nowhere to be seen. Even when I pledged and the SC goals aren't as lofty as they are now I was skeptical, but figured I'll back the genre and would be more than happy if they only delivered on SQ42 and it was competent. Still waiting.

Also, I don't understand why if people think croberts is so incompetent they're clamoring to suck off another incompetent developer to show how incompetent croberts is. You don't need to be grasping at Smart's fantasies to point out all the SC problems when there's so many concrete red flags right in front of your face.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126


all the whales are feeling good about the last transmission from dear leader. How many times will he make them promises and then break those promises before they will wake up. I bet some never will.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,519
745
126
I honestly cannot believe that anyone still thinks this isnt a scam, like it seriously does not make sense how everyone cant see it.

Dont get me wrong i would love it if the game was made, i almost backed it when it came out on kickstarter originally, and would buy it in a heartbeat if it came out. But seriously people this isnt going to happen.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
Zero sum isn't a logical fallacy, it is a concept of game theory. Zero sum is an appropriate category of game theory for this instance. Somebody who spends $500 on star citizen has $500 less to pledge on other indie games. Most people have limited gaming budgets
To an extent, sure. Do most people really budget set amounts for such things though? I would really, really hope that anyone paying $500 for a ship for a game that doesn't exist (and might never exist) has enough wealth and income for $500 not to materially affect her purchasing decisions at all. Wouldn't be true for me - I don't think I could bring myself to spend $500 for a ship for a game that does exist and won unanimous GOTY awards for ten years running - but in higher income areas and individuals, I think that zero sum theory falls apart. Heck, I've see people spend $500 on a freakin' fountain pen. (Although to be fair, I do imagine themselves going into their offices, closing the door, and then pretending to fly that $500 fountain pen like spaceship. I mean, it can't possibly be for writing, right?)
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
18,746
1,276
126
I honestly cannot believe that anyone still thinks this isnt a scam, like it seriously does not make sense how everyone cant see it.

Dont get me wrong i would love it if the game was made, i almost backed it when it came out on kickstarter originally, and would buy it in a heartbeat if it came out. But seriously people this isnt going to happen.
you see i was cool with everything until i started seeing $500-$10,000 dollar ships on "pledge".
People say those ships arent pay to win, as they have no advantages whats so ever, but i tell people the only reason for that is because the game is NOT completed.

Noway to tell if those 1000 dollar + ships will have any advantages when game launchs.. however i bet they will..

Probably increased storage capacity so you can get a head start from normal people in transporting, or something.
And to get one of said ships will probably require an intensive grind like EVE.

But honestly at this point i wouldnt be suprised if the game is never completed.
Each year i hear ... the game will come out next year... oh we had some problems with the engine so the year after next... oh our actor for the live motion part sprained his ankle so the delay was inevitable...


Honestly the game was originally suposed to come out 2014.... its 2017 for heavens sake...
IF anything it tells me never to invest in anything Chris Roberts... because to him something called DeadLines / Promises, are just 9 letter words which holed no significance.
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,407
44
91
you see i was cool with everything until i started seeing $500-$10,000 dollar ships on "pledge".
Not that it changes much (or anything at all), but those $10,000+ packages are multi-ship packages.

The most expensive ship sold is the Javelin destroyer for $3,000 (+VAT, if it applies).

The most desirable ships for a single player are in the $100-$300 range. Still insane prices, but less so.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,794
825
126
Crowdfunding and early access for the most part has become one big scam in general. Sure there are a few diamonds that come through out there, but for the most part it is all hype and that's it. Considering I was part of the Coolest Cooler debacle and swore off kickstarting anything and the few EA things I've been involved in either died or are doing the exact same thing Star Citizen is doing, I'll never back kickstarter or buy another early access product again. So yes, the debate about not spending money on SC and spending it elsewhere holds true for many. Not being burned goes a long way to making you throw your money into other things as well.

Let's be realistic. If $140 million can't make your game that you originally asked what 3million for? You are doing something wrong and should just give the money back. You aren't responsible enough to have it. This guy may have had good intentions in the beginning, but now he's just milking the believers for every penny he can.
 
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clok1966

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,397
13
76
Hope my kids children can play it when its done, will they transfer my kickstarter to my grandkids?
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,105
400
136
Crowdfunding and EA for the most part has become one big scam in general. Sure there are a few diamonds that come through out there, but for the most part it is all hype and that's it. Considering I was part of the Coolest Cooler debacle and swore off kickstarting anything and the few EA things I've been involved in either died or are doing the exact same thing Star Citizen is doing, I'll never back kickstarter or buy another EA product again. So yes, the debate about not spending money on SC and spending it elsewhere holds true for many. Not being burned goes a long way to making you throw your money into other things as well.

Let's be realistic. If $140 million can't make your game that you originally asked what 3million for? You are doing something wrong and should just give the money back. You aren't responsible enough to have it. This guy may have had good intentions in the beginning, but now he's just milking the believers for every penny he can.
Is EA involved in this now? I don't remember seeing them linked to this, and thought one of the major reasons CR has gone the crowd funding is because he didn't want to have someone telling him what he had to do... like get a stable release. Not sure why he'd worry about that with EA, I'm not sure stable releases even mean anything to them.

I also think it's scope creep that caused him to be unable to deliver a game with the 3million he asked for originally. His stretch goals got away from him, and now it's a mess.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
Crowdfunding and early access for the most part has become one big scam in general. Sure there are a few diamonds that come through out there, but for the most part it is all hype and that's it. Considering I was part of the Coolest Cooler debacle and swore off kickstarting anything and the few EA things I've been involved in either died or are doing the exact same thing Star Citizen is doing, I'll never back kickstarter or buy another early access product again. So yes, the debate about not spending money on SC and spending it elsewhere holds true for many. Not being burned goes a long way to making you throw your money into other things as well.

Let's be realistic. If $140 million can't make your game that you originally asked what 3million for? You are doing something wrong and should just give the money back. You aren't responsible enough to have it. This guy may have had good intentions in the beginning, but now he's just milking the believers for every penny he can.
They educated the backers that are on the forums about all of the cool things they will do and the backers voted to allow them to waste all the money doing insane shit that isnt in any games for good reason (like it doesnt fit in memory)
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,519
745
126
Crowdfunding and early access for the most part has become one big scam in general. Sure there are a few diamonds that come through out there, but for the most part it is all hype and that's it. Considering I was part of the Coolest Cooler debacle and swore off kickstarting anything and the few EA things I've been involved in either died or are doing the exact same thing Star Citizen is doing, I'll never back kickstarter or buy another early access product again. So yes, the debate about not spending money on SC and spending it elsewhere holds true for many. Not being burned goes a long way to making you throw your money into other things as well.

Let's be realistic. If $140 million can't make your game that you originally asked what 3million for? You are doing something wrong and should just give the money back. You aren't responsible enough to have it. This guy may have had good intentions in the beginning, but now he's just milking the believers for every penny he can.
quoted for truth
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,761
61
91
Crowdfunding and early access for the most part has become one big scam in general. Sure there are a few diamonds that come through out there, but for the most part it is all hype and that's it. Considering I was part of the Coolest Cooler debacle and swore off kickstarting anything and the few EA things I've been involved in either died or are doing the exact same thing Star Citizen is doing, I'll never back kickstarter or buy another early access product again. So yes, the debate about not spending money on SC and spending it elsewhere holds true for many. Not being burned goes a long way to making you throw your money into other things as well.

Let's be realistic. If $140 million can't make your game that you originally asked what 3million for? You are doing something wrong and should just give the money back. You aren't responsible enough to have it. This guy may have had good intentions in the beginning, but now he's just milking the believers for every penny he can.
This is a good run down.
 
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SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
1,252
26
91
Fake Derelict/Outpost:

Fake Landing with Fake Landing Gear:

Fake Derelict Fakelancer on a Fake Planet:

Too much fake in this one:

Fake Spaceship Reproduction Simulator Minigame:

Super Fake Trailer:

Obviously this game is dead and shows no progress whatsoever. ELE. 90 days tops (for real this time). I know things. And furthermore.

Can't wait for Gamescom/Citizencon. I mean, I know there will be more fake progress and other goodies, but this is what I get all that unsalted popcorn for:

:wink:
 
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preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,761
61
91
Hey my dude, video footage isn't proof of anything when your game's engine is totally unstable and your netcode (kind of important for an online game) is broken.

Non scam games tend to get their engine and netcode working before they make most of their assets or do mocap with hollywoood actors...

Have you *played* any of totally real things you posted?
 
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Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,594
223
106
I gave up on guessing when they will have things out (I don't even take their word for it until whatever the thing is hits the PTU (Public Test Universe, which is where major things are pushed first)).

As has been said, they have netcode issues which crop up after a certain number of players. A refactor has been in the works for a while, and is slated to be one of the key features of the next major alpha builds. We will see when we see.

I don't think it is something that can't be fixed at the moment. Even instancing players such that they reside in a smaller group that can be handled by the existing netcode would still create a good game (just not the massive battles people were hoping for). I hope they can get it to support at least 64 ships/players in an instance (more would be great, but as long as quickseamless transfer between instances can occur, 64 should be enough to work with).
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
Fake Derelict/Outpost:

Fake Landing with Fake Landing Gear:

Fake Derelict Fakelancer on a Fake Planet:

Too much fake in this one:

Fake Spaceship Reproduction Simulator Minigame:

Super Fake Trailer:

Obviously this game is dead and shows no progress whatsoever. ELE. 90 days tops (for real this time). I know things. And furthermore.

Can't wait for Gamescom/Citizencon. I mean, I know there will be more fake progress and other goodies, but this is what I get all that unsalted popcorn for:

:wink:
- a sucker
 

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