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Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

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preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,761
61
91
I wouldn't call it "free". Oddly I've noticed a split in the people that have given (in some cases continue to) money. The group that is playing the Alpha and already feels like they've gotten their moneys worth, and the other group that's going "Where's the game". In the former's case, they've already gotten what they paid for. Which is awesome for them. The latter group is the one they need to really worry about. If they end up putting nothing out, it'll be those that come after them. Either way, it's not free.

Thing is, there are plenty of pew pew space games on steam right now, and all of them are better than the buggy alpha that star cultists have convinced themselves is worth hundreds of dollars.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,215
216
106
Thing is, there are plenty of pew pew space games on steam right now, and all of them are better than the buggy alpha that star cultists have convinced themselves is worth hundreds of dollars.
I'll bite, can you list them? I don't remember seeing much variety in space sims on Steam, or anywhere for that matter. Off the top of my head I can only think of Elite, X series, and Evochron, and out of those only Elite comes somewhat close to Star Citizen but is still quite a different game.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,761
61
91
I'll bite, can you list them? I don't remember seeing much variety in space sims on Steam, or anywhere for that matter. Off the top of my head I can only think of Elite, X series, and Evochron, and out of those only Elite comes somewhat close to Star Citizen but is still quite a different game.
Given that star citizen is a buggy tech demo, pretty much all pew pew space games surpass star citizen by being stable games with working tech.

Everspace and Angels Fall First are 2 you missed.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,303
4,199
146
I'll bite, can you list them? I don't remember seeing much variety in space sims on Steam, or anywhere for that matter. Off the top of my head I can only think of Elite, X series, and Evochron, and out of those only Elite comes somewhat close to Star Citizen but is still quite a different game.
Given that star citizen is a buggy tech demo, pretty much all pew pew space games surpass star citizen by being stable games with working tech.

Everspace and Angels Fall First are 2 you missed.
Everspace is really more of a rogue-ey game, not really like SC. X has a lot more base-building but I guess you can play as sort-of SC, obviously no planetary interactions though. Elite is closer, smaller in scope but a completed game (depending on your perception of complete). There's a few EA games that are looking very, very promising but that's always a crapshoot. There's a few more space games as well but varying levels of 'sim' (most are more action-oriented, like Rebel Galaxy).

SC was attempting to break into a new area of 'bigger than big' space sim, or true space sim, or whatever. Time will tell if they ever actually hit that target.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
SC isnt a game. You cant judge it against any of those games because right now its a couple stations, a crappy fps game that is worse then some 16 year olds mod on moddb and a point and click generic space shooter.
 

renz20003

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2011
2,674
592
136
At the end of the day it's not important who was right or wrong... Or who scammed who because wing commander games blow
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
All these early game designers who come back and try again have all made shit. the world has moved on and they hate it. What kind of idiot game designer would tell people they can have giant poly counts and 1000's of people playing? One that doesnt have a clue wtf they are doing.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
that dumb drink mixing mini game for the space bus has stolen graphics as well...







wake up people. Its all a scam.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,761
61
91
Everspace is really more of a rogue-ey game, not really like SC. X has a lot more base-building but I guess you can play as sort-of SC, obviously no planetary interactions though. Elite is closer, smaller in scope but a completed game (depending on your perception of complete). There's a few EA games that are looking very, very promising but that's always a crapshoot. There's a few more space games as well but varying levels of 'sim' (most are more action-oriented, like Rebel Galaxy).

SC was attempting to break into a new area of 'bigger than big' space sim, or true space sim, or whatever. Time will tell if they ever actually hit that target.
Yes, Star Citizen began as a very ambitious game, then scope creep ballooned it into an un-development-able project before it mutated into an outright scam.

It's really unfortunate that Chris Roberts got $150 million in crowdfunding while frontier got a relative pittance when they were making elite dangerous. Who knows where elite would be right now if the competent indie space sim devs got that funding instead of the dude who got thrown out of the industry for good reason.
 

SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
1,252
26
91
150 mill is a lot of money robbed from other indie developers
That's the same ridiculous viewpoint Smart takes. Gaming isn't one game or the other. People support Star Citizen and also Elite Dangerous (and our communities get along quite well). We also support other efforts, like Everspace. I've been happy to support all of these projects because they are ALL revitalizing this genre.
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
That's the same ridiculous viewpoint Smart takes. Gaming isn't one game or the other. People support Star Citizen and also Elite Dangerous (and our communities get along quite well). We also support other efforts, like Everspace. I've been happy to support all of these projects because they are ALL revitalizing this genre.
In a world of unlimited cash that would be true. There is only so much disposable income for space ship games and star citizen has taken the lions share and spent it on dreams.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
A year ago I told you 3.0 was fake. Someone tried to argue journalists played that demo. It was lies. Lies and dreams.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,097
390
136
In a world of unlimited cash that would be true. There is only so much disposable income for space ship games and star citizen has taken the lions share and spent it on dreams.
This would only work if everyone that gave money to SC are both out of money now, and would have without doubt given that money to one of the other devs. It's taking some major leaps to say that just because SC raised $150 other devs are SOL. There's a name for this kind of fallacy, but I can't remember what it is.. It's def a "Zero sum thinking" but I think there's a better name for it.. either way, it doesn't make it at all true.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
This would only work if everyone that gave money to SC are both out of money now, and would have without doubt given that money to one of the other devs. It's taking some major leaps to say that just because SC raised $150 other devs are SOL. There's a name for this kind of fallacy, but I can't remember what it is.. It's def a "Zero sum thinking" but I think there's a better name for it.. either way, it doesn't make it at all true.
if a whale goes all in with $15,000 on a video game some money isnt being spent elsewhere. This is true. Zero sum thinking doesnt work in that regard. some of these guys lost their marriages over this horrible thing...



but the tattoo biz must be good...

 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,761
61
91
This would only work if everyone that gave money to SC are both out of money now, and would have without doubt given that money to one of the other devs. It's taking some major leaps to say that just because SC raised $150 other devs are SOL. There's a name for this kind of fallacy, but I can't remember what it is.. It's def a "Zero sum thinking" but I think there's a better name for it.. either way, it doesn't make it at all true.
Zero sum isn't a logical fallacy, it is a concept of game theory. Zero sum is an appropriate category of game theory for this instance. Somebody who spends $500 on star citizen has $500 less to pledge on other indie games. Most people have limited gaming budgets
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,097
390
136
Zero sum isn't a logical fallacy, it is a concept of game theory. Zero sum is an appropriate category of game theory for this instance. Somebody who spends $500 on star citizen has $500 less to pledge on other indie games. Most people have limited gaming budgets
My point was there is a name for this kind of fallacy, I'll just be damned if i can remember what it was.. Zero sum was the only thing I could remember that connects to JSt0rm's incorrect idea that just because someone spent money on SC means that that same person would have spent money on some other game but now can't.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
why dont you google logical fallacy and find whatever it is you are thinking about? Until then and after then the game is a scam.
 
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preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,761
61
91
My point was there is a name for this kind of fallacy, I'll just be damned if i can remember what it was.. Zero sum was the only thing I could remember that connects to JSt0rm's incorrect idea that just because someone spent money on SC means that that same person would have spent money on some other game but now can't.
It isn't a logical fallacy. Elite dangerous and SC are basically the same game, but one is well planned and funtional, and the other is a stillborn clusterF
 

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