Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

[JSt0rm]

lawsuit is here

http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/08/interstellar-breach/

Looks like they want the books opened up. It seems likely corberts is paying his wife, his brother and himself salaries that are not inline with those positions. Its possible money is being funneled out of the production and that would make this epic.

 

[JSt0rm]

I know. I spent about 6 mos. with 3DS Max and now I wish I had stuck with it. That would be a trip to design your own ship for the private server...or even better, get it accepted to the PU.

So many cool ship ideas. I'm pretty fond of the small racers / fighters.

Where does the space toilet go?

 

[Ns1]

http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/08/interstellar-breach/

that guy has way too much time on his hands.

I have no dog in the fight but some time during lunch, and he makes the claim:

And now with backer money, he’s paying himself a high salary, living the life of luxury in a house on Pacific Palisades reported to cost over $11K per month in rent, luxury vehicles, staff, funding his wife’s pet movie projects, flying all over the world etc. All with backer money that was crowd-funded for the development of Star Citizen.

But I don't see the supporting evidence.

 

[JSt0rm]

But I don't see the supporting evidence.

Thats the point of the lawsuit. Open up the books and see how this money is being spent.

 

[Ns1]

Thats the point of the lawsuit. Open up the books and see how this money is being spent.

oh, so this is a fishing expedition?

 

[JSt0rm]

oh, so this is a fishing expedition?

Its called discovery and its pat of the legal process.

 

[Ns1]

Its called discovery and its pat of the legal process.

So we're just going to give him a pass for making claims w/o evidence?

I mean we might as well say Derek Smart is a child molester, and I want to sue him to see the contents of his hard drive to see if there is any proof.

Once again, no dog in the fight, just in this thread to kill time.

 

[JSt0rm]

So we're just going to give him a pass for making claims w/o evidence?

I mean we might as well say Derek Smart is a child molester, and I want to sue him to see the contents of his hard drive to see if there is any proof.

Once again, no dog in the fight, just in this thread to kill time.

How in the world would he get a pass for making claims w/o evidence? The whole point of discovery is to find evidence of wrong doing. If CIG has done nothing wrong then they have nothing to worry about.

If you called derek smart a child molester that would be libel. 🙂

 

[SunnyD]

So now this dipshit wants to for RSI to use backer money to pay for his lawsuit? Seems like he's sure fighting for the little guy here doesn't it. 🙄

 

[Ns1]

How in the world would he get a pass for making claims w/o evidence? The whole point of discovery is to find evidence of wrong doing. If CIG has done nothing wrong then they have nothing to worry about.

So he has no evidence, therefore he has to sue to get evidence?

isn't that the definition of a fishing expedition?

And it's not "nothing to worry about", it's somewhere in between "CIG still has to pay lawyers" and "it's none of this guy's fucking business".

I wasn't aware being a backer in a kickstarter campaign gave you audit rights.

 

[JSt0rm]

So he has no evidence, therefore he has to sue to get evidence?

isn't that the definition of a fishing expedition?

And it's not "nothing to worry about", it's somewhere in between "CIG still has to pay lawyers" and "it's none of this guy's fucking business".

I wasn't aware being a backer in a kickstarter campaign gave you audit rights.

IF CIG wants to do business in america then this should all be open to the court system. Are you worried that CIG is doing something wrong and you dont care?

 

[Crono]

IF CIG wants to do business in america then this should all be open to the court system. Are you worried that CIG is doing something wrong and you dont care?

I just love all the fun and positivity you bring to a gaming thread. 😀

 

[JSt0rm]

I just love all the fun and positivity you bring to a gaming thread. 😀

Thank you! This game is very different then anything before it and it certainly has a dynamic all its own.

 

[Ns1]

IF CIG wants to do business in america then this should all be open to the court system. Are you worried that CIG is doing something wrong and you dont care?

From a business perspective, I don't think any random schmuck should have audit rights to another person's books unless they have legal rights to it.

And a fishing expedition w/o proof falls squarely in the "this should not be legal" bucket.

 

[Fallen Kell]

IF CIG wants to do business in america then this should all be open to the court system. Are you worried that CIG is doing something wrong and you dont care?

Except that the court system itself has rules. One of which is that you need evidence and standing before you can even bring a lawsuit. Otherwise it is a fishing expedition. And simply claiming that he can't have any evidence without seeing the books does not entitle you to see the books to look for evidence. As others have stated, no where in the kickstarter and other pledge contracts that you entered with CIG gave anyone audit authority. If you wanted to have that ability you should have amended the contract and stipulated you wanted that ability before funding (i.e. you knew that you were agreeing to give the money under the contract agreement you signed on).

To me, this entire thing is sour grapes because Derek sees someone/company doing something that threatens the niche game market that he worked within. And they did it in a way that he didn't think to do it to overcome the barriers that he has been fighting for decades and is pissed that someone else came and found a way around those barriers (i.e. that no publisher would touch a space sim with a 1000 foot pole, let alone put AAA game title level funding behind it).

All Derek is actually doing is forcing CIG to spend money fighting the lawsuit, wasting real money that could be going to developing the game on this matter (which in my mind is most likely the whole point, hoping that it will cause the game to be worse than it could be otherwise so that the market for Derek's games stay viable).

 

[Ns1]

^^^

a much more eloquent version of what I was trying to say.

 

[Crono]

To me, this entire thing is sour grapes because Derek sees someone/company doing something that threatens the niche game market that he worked within. And they did it in a way that he didn't think to do it to overcome the barriers that he has been fighting for decades and is pissed that someone else came and found a way around those barriers (i.e. that no publisher would touch a space sim with a 1000 foot pole, let alone put AAA game title level funding behind it).

I had to look up who Derek Smart was and found this. He seems really upset he couldn't get the rights to Freespace. It wouldn't surprise me if he is just bitter and looking for an outlet. He does make some good points about feature creep on his blog, but that's something I expected or at least don't take offense to as a backer. Things change, and I don't pledge to anything expecting a written-in-stone guaranteed delivery of a product. That's what I expect from traditional, finished games not from something as ambitious as a crowd funded space sim.

 

[JSt0rm]

Yes the court has rules and they will rule in this case. What are you guys afraid of? If you are so sure they have done nothing wrong then you will be vindicated.

Its not like he has no reason for the lawsuit. The initial backers were told 2 years and nothing like the game we see now. The ftc has big issues with people selling snake oil and they have received complaints about cig. They have a special branch that focuses on crowdsourcing things.

 

[JSt0rm]

I had to look up who Derek Smart was and found this. He seems really upset he couldn't get the rights to Freespace. It wouldn't surprise me if he is just bitter and looking for an outlet. He does make some good points about feature creep on his blog, but that's something I expected or at least don't take offense to as a backer. Things change, and I don't pledge to anything expecting a written-in-stone guaranteed delivery of a product. That's what I expect from traditional, finished games not from something as ambitious as a crowd funded space sim.

do you know how much crap I can pull up on croberts? Please dont go there. ^_^

 

[JSt0rm]

Also let me say IF CIG is abusing the position that has a direct impact on all other games that will be made in the crowdsourcing way AND on current games because 100 mill is a lot to take from other indie developers in the form of opportunity loss.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Yes the court has rules and they will rule in this case. What are you guys afraid of? If you are so sure they have done nothing wrong then you will be vindicated.

I'm not afraid of anything other than what I stated in the last paragraph in my last post which is that this I feel this is all just a ploy of a bitter person to force another company to waste money that would otherwise be going into this game on fighting a frivolous lawsuit, all in order to hope that the game doesn't become what it can become and take a large part of the gaming market that his own company works in and needs to make his own living.

The FTC is its own matter. They have their own rules and regulations, most of which never envisioned crowdsourcing/crowdfunding. They have an investigation into it because they are trying to look at their own rules to figure out if/how they apply. If they have a case, they will present it. So far they havn't presented one, and as such, continuing to say that the FTC is investigating when at the same time saying there is this lawsuit is meant to add credibility to the lawsuit as though it is more than what it is. They are two separate issues, with one having no meaning over the other, and yet you post it like the FTC is the proof for Derek's lawsuit when it isn't.

Edited to fix spelling mistakes.

 

[JSt0rm]

Read the thing man. Derek has to show his case and if the courts find any merit to the case then they will move forward. You guys spend a lot of time filling in the blank spots with speculation. He has some evidence of possible foul play (pretty damning when cig removes the thing he is talking about silently). CIG will have the ability to defend themselves.

 

[artemicion]

Eh, apparently this Derek Smart fella isn't the only one suspicious of Star Citizen's funding. I've read other articles popping up in the last week about a large number of backers demanding refunds due to the lack of progress on the project and general skepticism over whether the team is competent to handle a project of this scope.

Also, the legal system has built-in safeguards to prevent fishing expeditions. For one, litigation is expensive for both sides. Generally won't be able to convince a lawyer to file a lawsuit unless you can convince that lawyer that your case has some legs. Second, most (all?) jurisdictions have some rule equivalent to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11, exposing both the party and their lawyer to sanctions for bringing a lawsuit for an improper purpose, or making factual allegations that have no evidentiary support or are unlikely to have evidentiary support after investigation or discovery.

Know your legal system before you whine about it.

 

[JSt0rm]

Eh, apparently this Derek Smart fella isn't the only one suspicious of Star Citizen's funding. I've read other articles popping up in the last week about a large number of backers demanding refunds due to the lack of progress on the project and general skepticism over whether the team is competent to handle a project of this scope.

Also, the legal system has built-in safeguards to prevent fishing expeditions. For one, litigation is expensive for both sides. Generally won't be able to convince a lawyer to file a lawsuit unless you can convince that lawyer that your case has some legs. Second, most (all?) jurisdictions have some rule equivalent to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11, exposing both the party and their lawyer to sanctions for bringing a lawsuit for an improper purpose, or making factual allegations that have no evidentiary support or are unlikely to have evidentiary support after investigation or discovery.

Know your legal system before you whine about it.

Exactly.

Sometimes I feel like a lot of people who are invested in this thing dont know much about:

sunk-cost fallacy. When one makes a hopeless investment, one sometimes reasons: I can't stop now, otherwise what I've invested so far will be lost. This is true, of course, but irrelevant to whether one should continue to invest in the project.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I still think many people are confusing buying into a kickstarter as buying stock which it is not. This arrangement is more similar to an advanced pre-order.

When I preordered AOC I was excited about the drunken brawling feature. I thought it might be fun, game was released without drunken brawling. Do I have a claim to collect on monies owed to me because a feature was missing? What are my damages?