Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

[vshah]

was thinking about backing

how good is the combat simulator?

it hasn't been release yet, so no one knows from firsthand experience

 

[norseamd]

it hasn't been release yet, so no one knows from firsthand experience

thought it was supposed to come out in december

 

[Nintendesert]

The plan is at Pax next month.

 

[Blue_Max]

"They stole my gun... my beautiful Steltek gun..."
*slump*

 

[swilli89]

Man.. I hate instances. I know I know they seem necessary but I just think it kills immersion. I liked that about classic everquest. Needed to camp a creature for its rare drop? Oh someone else is already camping it? Too bad go do something else. Next time you check and it's open it was THAT MUCH sweeter!

 

[norseamd]

Man.. I hate instances. I know I know they seem necessary but I just think it kills immersion. I liked that about classic everquest. Needed to camp a creature for its rare drop? Oh someone else is already camping it? Too bad go do something else. Next time you check and it's open it was THAT MUCH sweeter!

this was something i have been wondering. is the worldspace on everquest shared. i hate specific party instances. why does the unique story npc keep respawning. most annoying thing ever. did a unique boss ever respqawn? like that frost dragon?

 

[xantub]

Man.. I hate instances. I know I know they seem necessary but I just think it kills immersion. I liked that about classic everquest. Needed to camp a creature for its rare drop? Oh someone else is already camping it? Too bad go do something else. Next time you check and it's open it was THAT MUCH sweeter!

I on the other hand LOVE instances. Nothing more immersion breaking than going deep in a dark cave, in the middle of nowhere, you turn a corner and...
CAMP CHECK!
Mino taken!
King taken!
Queued for King!
Oh, Chef room is free let's go there

I prefer instances, where things actually feel like how it's supposed to be. My favorite MMOs were EQ (because of the focus on groups, not for lack of instances) and City of Heroes (because of groups and instances).

 

[Geosurface]

I have paid this game something but I'm really out of the loop. When's the ETA? Is it already playable in some form? Is there some ship I can buy now which I'll regret not getting later when it is no longer available?

 

[BrightCandle]

Man.. I hate instances. I know I know they seem necessary but I just think it kills immersion. I liked that about classic everquest. Needed to camp a creature for its rare drop? Oh someone else is already camping it? Too bad go do something else. Next time you check and it's open it was THAT MUCH sweeter!

I have a complicated and mixed perspecitive on instancing. On the one hand its rubbish that I get pulled out of this world full of other people and for the next period of time we know that only the 6 of us will be doing anything together and no one else could ever reach us. If someone drops we will have to restart the instance.

On the other hand without instancing its not possible to have events that change the world such as the destruction of a base or the genuine defeat of the enemy. In the open world there are so many players around all hacking on the same darn monsters that just keep respawning and that is a really holo experience. There was this one moment in Star wars online around level 25 where you kill a generals wife (well I think you have a choice). You escort her or something like that and along the way you kill her. The thing is everyone is doing this main story quest, so right after you have killed her and had this really intense fight with a very annoyed general you come out of the building and see 2 other people escorting the wife. Massively kills the immersion factor of what was an amazing bit of plot, ruined within seconds due to the MMO mechanics.

So it goes both ways, its hard to get impact without instancing in the way games are currently designed (everyone is the hero/villian) and so instancing becomes a way to make that impact within some smaller parallel realm, immersion killing but also necessary for immersion!

 

[Mandres]

I prefer my MMOs non-instanced, with full open PvP. Like EVE or Lineage 2. If someone is camping the mob you want to farm, you have the option to kill him and take it. Of course, you risk your reputation and the possible retribution of his friends. You have to weigh the consequences ...

The long term fun in a a good MMO comes from the struggles and competition among players/guilds for scarce resources. That's what keeps the game interesting and exciting: the competition. Game devs can't create instanced content fast enough to keep an MMO interesting at level cap. It's just not possible. But they don't have to; just give players something to fight over and the content creates itself.

 

[irishScott]

I have paid this game something but I'm really out of the loop. When's the ETA? Is it already playable in some form? Is there some ship I can buy now which I'll regret not getting later when it is no longer available?

Oh it won't be out until the middle of next year. We've had the hangar module for months and the dogfight module is due sometime in the next 4-5 weeks. There aren't any special ships on sale at present.

 

[irishScott]

I prefer my MMOs non-instanced, with full open PvP. Like Lineage 2. If someone is camping the mob you want to farm, you have the option to kill him and take it. Of course, you risk your reputation and the possible retribution of his friends. You have to weigh the consequences ...

The long term fun in a a good MMO comes from the struggles and competition among players/guilds for scarce resources. That's what keeps the game interesting and exciting: the competition. Game devs can't create instanced content fast enough to keep an MMO interesting at level cap. It's just not possible. But they don't have to; just give players something to fight over and the content creates itself.

That's the thing, I'm pretty sure Chris Roberts isn't going for MMORPG fans. I say that because a lot of the "RPG" is simply out the window from what I've seen. His final vision isn't a role playing game, it's a persistent believable universe.

Star Citizen isn't about the players, it's about the universe. NPCs run the big stuff, we're just "citizens". Granted citizens can attain certain status, but it's not going to be like EVE where players literally run/rule everything with minimal oversight.

However, we have been promised a lawless zone outside of UEE controlled space where such an environment will exist, although I imagine there will be NPCs there as well. Also PVP will be forced in this area.

So there will be something for everyone I imagine, but at the end of the day it's about participating in a given Universe, not making your own.

 

[Fallen Kell]

So there will be something for everyone I imagine, but at the end of the day it's about participating in a given Universe, not making your own.

Well, you do have your own way to make it your own, and that is to setup your own server, which is going to be allowed...

 

[Arsinek]

I prefer my MMOs non-instanced, with full open PvP. Like EVE or Lineage 2. If someone is camping the mob you want to farm, you have the option to kill him and take it. Of course, you risk your reputation and the possible retribution of his friends. You have to weigh the consequences ...

The long term fun in a a good MMO comes from the struggles and competition among players/guilds for scarce resources. That's what keeps the game interesting and exciting: the competition. Game devs can't create instanced content fast enough to keep an MMO interesting at level cap. It's just not possible. But they don't have to; just give players something to fight over and the content creates itself.

I feel exactly the same way. I have almost no interest in most games now because they dont off this kind of pvp play.

Playing against the computer just bores me. The linear, scripted, predictable, etc.

Most games revolve around fighting/war but most games dont feature an actual "war", its just little battles that dont really change anything or do anything. And grinding NPCs for loot sure as hell doesnt have anything to do with a war.

That's the thing, I'm pretty sure Chris Roberts isn't going for MMORPG fans. I say that because a lot of the "RPG" is simply out the window from what I've seen. His final vision isn't a role playing game, it's a persistent believable universe.

Star Citizen isn't about the players, it's about the universe. NPCs run the big stuff, we're just "citizens". Granted citizens can attain certain status, but it's not going to be like EVE where players literally run/rule everything with minimal oversight.

However, we have been promised a lawless zone outside of UEE controlled space where such an environment will exist, although I imagine there will be NPCs there as well. Also PVP will be forced in this area.

So there will be something for everyone I imagine, but at the end of the day it's about participating in a given Universe, not making your own.

Seems to me the persistent universe is the pure definition of a role playing game.

What part of it makes it not a role playing game?

 

[BoberFett]

Man.. I hate instances. I know I know they seem necessary but I just think it kills immersion. I liked that about classic everquest. Needed to camp a creature for its rare drop? Oh someone else is already camping it? Too bad go do something else. Next time you check and it's open it was THAT MUCH sweeter!

Instances kill immersion, but needing a Take A Number system to kill the loot pinata isn't?

If you want immersion, then bosses need permadeath. Once a boss has been killed it never spawns again, so the loot is TRULY rare.

That's hardcore, right?

 

[irishScott]

Seems to me the persistent universe is the pure definition of a role playing game.

What part of it makes it not a role playing game?

I'm just saying the RPG elements appear to be rather light. There's no stats other than reputation and perhaps combat record, no leveling. It's more simulator than RPG IMO.

 

[irishScott]

Well, you do have your own way to make it your own, and that is to setup your own server, which is going to be allowed...

Which is fine for the host and a few of his/her friends. I imagine the vast majority will be playing in the main universe.

 

[norseamd]

If you want immersion, then bosses need permadeath. Once a boss has been killed it never spawns again, so the loot is TRULY rare.

this is what i want

 

[preslove]

Seems to me the persistent universe is the pure definition of a role playing game.

What part of it makes it not a role playing game?

LOLLOLOLOLOOLOL

No.

A role playing game is a game that lets you take on the role of a character, make decisions, gain experience points, gain loot, and develop THE CHARACTER. This can be done while sitting around a table or while running around the woods or a college campus, not just with a computer.

A game without XP or skill system is not an RPG. Star Citizen is a persistent world space battle simulator. The only element it has in common with RPGs is it has money and gear. That doesn't make it an RPG.

 

[norseamd]

A game without XP is not an RPG. Star Citizen is a persistent world space battle simulator. The only element it has in common with RPGs is it has money and gear. That doesn't make it an RPG.

what about dungeon siege and the elder scroll games?

 

[Arkaign]

this is what i want

This would be great, but what about a game with 5.5M players? Even if they worked really hard and made 10,000 unique bosses (with good textures, voice acting, unique properties and drops, etc), this would be an INSANELY huge task, lol). Even with all those hundreds of thousands of man-hours put into creating those game resources, the chances of a player to ever even encounter one would be like winning the freaking lottery.

MMOs are immersion breaking by default. Until we can write AI that can truly create entire believable worlds on their own, instanced or not, it will be severely flawed. I personally hate MMOs because the world just feels so artificially structured, and the quest systems in things like WoW are laughably bad. 'Go fetch 20 of these', 'Go kill 50 of these', etc. No offense to those that enjoy them, I just can't get past that. I prefer live online competition, or a tight and well produced storyline/experience that has a beginning and end to it (with a lot of exploration like Skyrim, or a pretty focused streamline like TLOU/etc).

 

[xantub]

This would be great, but what about a game with 5.5M players? Even if they worked really hard and made 10,000 unique bosses (with good textures, voice acting, unique properties and drops, etc), this would be an INSANELY huge task, lol). Even with all those hundreds of thousands of man-hours put into creating those game resources, the chances of a player to ever even encounter one would be like winning the freaking lottery.

But why does it have to be that way? One of the things I don't like about raiding in general is that things are predetermined. Except for the few first guilds that did the dungeon, everybody else is just reading a script. They know what mob will spawn where, what abilities and weakness it has, how many hit points, where to stand so its AoE doesn't hit you, etc.

What if boss generation was random? There is a boss, but you don't know anything about it. You don't know if the optimal group to kill him is 10 wizards, 3 clerics and 2 warriors, or 3 wizards, 4 clerics and 10 warriors, or if you have to cast fireballs or iceballs at it or if you have wear acid resistance gear. I only do a raid 2 or 3 times tops on a particular dungeon in recent MMOs, because the experience doesn't change. You do it once and it's all fun, second time it's still fun since you may have missed stuff the first time, but after that it's just an artificial chore doing the same things, following the same recipe. Make it random!

 

[Fallen Kell]

what about dungeon siege and the elder scroll games?

In Dungeon Siege, you leveled up your weapon of choice which gained your character additional skill/attribute points to distribute, allowing you to level up your character. The same with Elder Scrolls. You level up particular skills by doing a task, after so many skill points earned, your character gains a level which lets you change attributes such as hit points, mana, and stamina.

None of those elements exist (or at least have not been made public) for Star Citizen. Combat is purely skill based in the sense of your ability to tactically fly your ship based on its equipment and weapons to better kill or avoid an enemy. In other words, it is like the real world fighter pilots, some are veterans who have spent lots of time in simulators and in flight practicing maneuvers and tactics for fighting different kinds of threats. The pilot needs to know the limitations of his/her own equipment so as to create the best response to the threat it is facing. For instance, P-51 pilots knew to climb when fighting a Japanese Zero because the Zero could out turn the P-51 and so circling meant death, but the P-51 had more HP and a much better climb power, which let the P-51 disengage the Zero and re-engage at an advantage... This is what Star Citizen will be like.

 

[preslove]

what about dungeon siege and the elder scroll games?

There is character advancement that is not related to simply acquiring new equipment in both those games. You improve the character. That is not in Star Citizen.

Srsly, this is not that hard to understand...

But why does it have to be that way? One of the things I don't like about raiding in general is that things are predetermined. Except for the few first guilds that did the dungeon, everybody else is just reading a script. They know what mob will spawn where, what abilities and weakness it has, how many hit points, where to stand so its AoE doesn't hit you, etc.

What if boss generation was random? There is a boss, but you don't know anything about it. You don't know if the optimal group to kill him is 10 wizards, 3 clerics and 2 warriors, or 3 wizards, 4 clerics and 10 warriors, or if you have to cast fireballs or iceballs at it or if you have wear acid resistance gear. I only do a raid 2 or 3 times tops on a particular dungeon in recent MMOs, because the experience doesn't change. You do it once and it's all fun, second time it's still fun since you may have missed stuff the first time, but after that it's just an artificial chore doing the same things, following the same recipe. Make it random!

Nobody cares what some random MMORPG addict wants. You're not the audience. People yearning for an awesome, modern freelancer, x-wing/wing commandeer type game are.


This is not that hard to understand. It is NOT AN MMORPG! If you are some dumb MMORPG player with no life but strong opinions opinions about WoW type games, this is not the game for you. This game is for someone who wants to use a flight stick to fly a fighter against enemies, AI and/or human. This has nothing to do with Everquest or WoW, other than being a persistent world.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Agreed I don't think they've mentioned it being a MMORPG game. To my knowledge its been advertised as a massive space battles game with trading and exploration. I don't see this game being an MMORPG. I don't even think its going to be about your character.