Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

[Sabrewings]

From what I've read, it was the devs saying it. In the Kotaku article at the end they do mention that given enough time and money they could rewrite a lot of the engine to make it do what they want. The issue there is, you'll still be waiting a long time for the game. At some point you do have to release, which seems to be second for CIG. Every article seems to agree that had they stuck to what they originally kickstarted they'd have released something by now.

I realize those were ex or current CIG employees saying that. But I would like to know if they're specifically involved in the engine development side or have experience there. Not every dev works at the engine level.

I agree that if they had kept the original list of goals, something would probably be released by now. I don't think that's up for debate. However, it often glosses over that this is what the fans wanted. They asked the community if we wanted to do stretch goals. We said yes, and they kept doing it. At a certain point, they did say "enough is enough" and went about ironing out what they did have. CR has also said before that not every stretch goal will be in the initial release, which I feel is reasonable. The major stretch goal that has made it to release way ahead of schedule is the procedural planet tech.

Either way, the community wanted to throw money at him to make the game of his and our dreams. He complied, and I don't hold that against him.

I do agree that Smart is prob in it for the attention. He does like to devote a lot of time towards something he feels attacks him all the time.

Attention is part of it, but it's more than that. He doesn't feel like SC in and of itself attacks him, though he does feel it should be him heralding the great space sim revival and not Chris Roberts or David Braben (who are friends, and class acts if you ask me in how they promote each other as well as other scifi games through their platforms). Anyway, Smart has held a grudge against CR since the 90s when Wing Commander was received with critical acclaim and his steaming pile of code was panned and never worked right. It's been personal since then, and it shows in how pathological he is about spreading FUD over SC. It irks him even more that his own personal nemesis came back to the gaming industry after ten years of absence and tapped into a $125 million and climbing market that Smart has failed to do in that time.

It's definitely personal.

 

[JSt0rm]

Derek is doing what he is doing because hes crazy. But he made 1 blog post expressing concerns about the game based on being a developer of space games himself and cig refunded his money without talking to him and then said some insulting things about his work. So they brought the internet warlord on themselves. CIG always makes the wrong move. There is always more and its always worse.

 

[Skel]

I realize those were ex or current CIG employees saying that. But I would like to know if they're specifically involved in the engine development side or have experience there. Not every dev works at the engine level.

I agree that if they had kept the original list of goals, something would probably be released by now. I don't think that's up for debate. However, it often glosses over that this is what the fans wanted. They asked the community if we wanted to do stretch goals. We said yes, and they kept doing it. At a certain point, they did say "enough is enough" and went about ironing out what they did have. CR has also said before that not every stretch goal will be in the initial release, which I feel is reasonable. The major stretch goal that has made it to release way ahead of schedule is the procedural planet tech.

Either way, the community wanted to throw money at him to make the game of his and our dreams. He complied, and I don't hold that against him..

That's a really good point. It's also why I don't rage much against SC, I've only said that I think CR is a bad boss. If the people that are investing (spending money buying ships and kickstarts) are happy, who am I to get in the way? To each their own.. i do, however, think that after years of delays, people should be asking wtf is going on. If they're happy with the answer they're hearing, more power to them. Like I said, I do hope they get the game they want, even if it does take longer.

Attention is part of it, but it's more than that. He doesn't feel like SC in and of itself attacks him, though he does feel it should be him heralding the great space sim revival and not Chris Roberts or David Braben (who are friends, and class acts if you ask me in how they promote each other as well as other scifi games through their platforms). Anyway, Smart has held a grudge against CR since the 90s when Wing Commander was received with critical acclaim and his steaming pile of code was panned and never worked right. It's been personal since then, and it shows in how pathological he is about spreading FUD over SC. It irks him even more that his own personal nemesis came back to the gaming industry after ten years of absence and tapped into a $125 million and climbing market that Smart has failed to do in that time.

It's definitely personal.

It felt more like he was using them for publicity than him personally going after them. I can see the ultimate point though, take what he says with a grain of salt as he does have an agenda.

 

[JSt0rm]

oh and say what you will about dsmarts games but he has a core following of people that enjoy the level of complexity. He has made millions so I dont think any of us can talk shit about what he has done.

 

[JSt0rm]

That's a really good point. It's also why I don't rage much against SC, I've only said that I think CR is a bad boss. If the people that are investing (spending money buying ships and kickstarts) are happy, who am I to get in the way? To each their own.. i do, however, think that after years of delays, people should be asking wtf is going on. If they're happy with the answer they're hearing, more power to them. Like I said, I do hope they get the game they want, even if it does take longer.




It felt more like he was using them for publicity than him personally going after them. I can see the ultimate point though, take what he says with a grain of salt as he does have an agenda.

You cant as a company make huge sweeping promises rake in millions and then not deliver on those promises. Mark my words. After this whole star citizen thing is done there will be new laws on the books limiting crowd funding. People are selling snake oil and it only takes 1 company to fleece people about of a couple hundred million for it to hit congress.

 

[Sabrewings]

But he made 1 blog post expressing concerns about the game

It started before that. He was causing trouble and hawking his shovelware on the RSI forms for a while before that. They cracked down on him, and that was what instigated his initial blog post. However, you can see it was starting already back in 2012:

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/266159563957473281

 

[JSt0rm]

no he never posted on the rsi forums.

 

[Sabrewings]

oh and say what you will about dsmarts games but he has a core following of people that enjoy the level of complexity. He has made millions so I dont think any of us can talk shit about what he has done.

He claims to have made millions. I also make no judgments about games I haven't played in terms of fun, but bug-ridden is a fact and would even be kind.

When released:

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/universal-combat-review/1900-6089374/

And as the many times re-released version sits today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hMdoVRJ0dw

no he never posted on the rsi forums.

Oh, but he did. No one was forward thinking enough to archive them at that point, but I saw them. When CIG did their housekeeping, those threads were deleted. The specific reason cited for his refund was using their platform services as a means of promoting his own games.

 

[JSt0rm]

bullshit. He never posted at rsi. This is known.

 

[JSt0rm]

do you know why bc3000 was bug ridden? Because the publisher pushed it out before ds was done. He even left the project before release in protest. After a lawsuit he got the rights back to the game and fixed the bugs for free. You people hate him so much you have a pretty skewed version of the events that happened.

 

[Sabrewings]

do you know why bc3000 was bug ridden? Because the publisher pushed it out before ds was done. He even left the project before release in protest. After a lawsuit he got the rights back to the game and fixed the bugs for free. You people hate him so much you have a pretty skewed version of the events that happened.

I didn't post anything about BC3000. I posted Universal Combat which he self published (well, after the DCI mess) over 10 years ago, and sells a re-released with DLC version today (the DLC being pretty much bug fixes, but it's still broken). Check it out.

I can understand being confused. Most of his games are just rereleases of the same content/assets anyway.

bullshit. He never posted at rsi. This is known.

Is it now? Ok. I guess I wasn't there then. My mistake...

 

[JSt0rm]

yeah you wernt. Your memory of events doesnt make them reality. Search the internet for a reference to him posting on rsi and then search for a reference of people laughing about him being banned from posting even though he never posted before.

 

[Sabrewings]

yeah you wernt. Your memory of events doesnt make them reality. Search the internet for a reference to him posting on rsi and then search for a reference of people laughing about him being banned from posting even though he never posted before.

Ok.

 

[rivethead]

From what I read in the article it really comes across that CR didn't (possibly still doesn't) know how to manage a multi-department team. In that article you question my reading, it lists dozens of examples of how teams didn't talk with each other, didn't have the same standards, and in some cases were working on the same things. Someone running a company like this normally keeps a management line in place that makes sure stuff like this doesn't happen. In this case, CR didn't, and it really comes across that he sidestepped attempts to have it in place. From my point of view, that's bad leadership plain and simple. If anything CR was guilty of not fitting into the team he was claiming to make. The article (the only thing I'm basing this on, as I don't play the game, nor follow the drama) gives me the impression that like Schilling, CR had dreams of making the most super-awesome MMO ever created. In both cases it sounds like Duke Nukem as the longer it went/goes on, the more impossible the dream... of course I guess I could be just spamming FUD.

The article also stated how he addressed it: by hiring his brother Erin and letting Erin streamline the operations and implement processes and standards. And this was done pretty early on in the development stage....after the crowd-funding had exploded. So I guess CR can be criticized for being a reactionary leader and not being proactive......he can join the list with just about every other big business leader.

 

[rivethead]

When do u think 3.0 will go live? I thought the demo was faked personally.

They ran the demo over 20 separate times letting multiple journalists participate. If they faked it, then that involved a LOT of effort to fake it every time.

Incidentally, it only crashed to desktop one time during all of that.

 

[rivethead]

The biggest nugget of disappointing info in the Kotaku article, for me anyway, was the fact that Squadron 42 development was hampered by all the other studios increasingly dumping Star Citizen development tasks on Erin's guys at Foundry 42. That part pissed me off.

I'm here for the single player game. Everything else should wait (and I know the majority disagree with this statement).

 

[sxr7171]

The biggest nugget of disappointing info in the Kotaku article, for me anyway, was the fact that Squadron 42 development was hampered by all the other studios increasingly dumping Star Citizen development tasks on Erin's guys at Foundry 42. That part pissed me off.

I'm here for the single player game. Everything else should wait (and I know the majority disagree with this statement).

I'm with you on that.

 

[Skel]

The article also stated how he addressed it: by hiring his brother Erin and letting Erin streamline the operations and implement processes and standards. And this was done pretty early on in the development stage....after the crowd-funding had exploded. So I guess CR can be criticized for being a reactionary leader and not being proactive......he can join the list with just about every other big business leader.

The stuff in question happened post Erin (post crowdfunding) so the question there is, did CR not allow Erin to run the stuff correctly, or was Erin also in over his head? From what I've read, it sounds like Erin wasn't empowered to do the job, but again this comes from second/third/whatever handed info so it's hard to say for sure. What doesn't appear to be in question is the clusterfuck of management of resources, something that CR went to Erin (in the Kotaku) in late 2014 to reorg. It doesn't sound like things are too much better for it though, outside of more work being done the UK, which by all accounts isn't a bad thing.

 

[SLU Aequitas]

What I understood around it was at that point, the staff shortage was such that the UK team led by Erin inherently had to pick up slack as the UK team was the closest thing to an experience dev team. Their model was later adopted officially across all studios.

I still think even more important than that reorg was the acquisition of the Crytek engineers, as this has started clearing their largest bottleneck (and we've seen that with the acceleration of content delivery since).

I also am primarily in this for the SP, however I truly believe that since they've got the cash, they need to use it. Development of robust dev tools, design guidelines, modular pieces, and other foundation blocks will pay off in the long run and is simply a smart approach. We're already starting to see some of the payoff. So I'm happy to wait.

Plus:
1.) First person is game changing. Besides the fact that I think the FPS module / Star Marine is going to be awesome in its own right, the perspective gained from looking at everything from your character's eyes is not to be understated (e.g. it's much harder to gain a sense of scale in Elite Dangerous, even with VR).
2.) They're actually using the backer money to push gaming boundaries unlike any other game to date. The vast majority of backers VOTED for this, despite what the delusional "Doctor" and the poor, sad, goonies would like people to believe.
3.) Every further step and milestone reached further blows the doctor and his goonies' gaskets. It amuses me. Heck, watching the 80+ tweets during Citizencon will be its own little show Just remember, we're watching you.

 

[JSt0rm]

Like 800 people on the forum voted for this. The vast majority donated $40 and are wondering where the game is.

 

[Malibutomi]

Like 800 people on the forum voted for this. The vast majority donated $40 and are wondering where the game is.

I think that's the minority. The majority follows the development and knows whats going on. As i said earlier most backers are living their life, not waiting impatiently when it comes.
I'd rather wait and get a better game, then hit the deadlines, and get something like WD, AC Unity. That is the purpose of not having a publisher rushing for its money.

 

[JSt0rm]

well the vote he was referring to was like 800 people tops. maybe less.

 

[Malibutomi]

well the vote he was referring to was like 800 people tops. maybe less.

Thanks for clarifying you just making up numbers...

Also the vote page asking about "Should we continue to offer stretch goals" showing Total Votes: 34491 disagrees with you

 

[SLU Aequitas]

well the vote he was referring to was like 800 people tops. maybe less.

You're seriously off your rocker. It's amusing how you goons thought you'd bring on Smart for the lulz, instead you're now the laughingstock of the internet.

Bottom line is that while the timeline is slower due to the increased scope, things are progressing at ever faster speeds and fidelity.

Best thing is J, at the end of the day, if I'm right, there's an unprecedented first class game for everyone to play. If I'm wrong, if still gotten many hours of enjoyment from what's already been released.

You, however, you get nothing either way. 2 weeks, 90 days max guys LOL

 

[ViRGE]

The biggest nugget of disappointing info in the Kotaku article, for me anyway, was the fact that Squadron 42 development was hampered by all the other studios increasingly dumping Star Citizen development tasks on Erin's guys at Foundry 42. That part pissed me off.

I'm here for the single player game. Everything else should wait (and I know the majority disagree with this statement).

Ditto.