Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[poke01]

I like the orange because it's been the Zen color for multiple generations now. I actually wish the Zen swirl was orange, too, to match their usual marketing materials.

AMD's marketing for Zen is now blue/sliver. I like the change. It's refreshing. I bet AMD changed it cause sliver/blue is a calm and cold color denoting Zen 4/5
efficiency and pref/w advantage.


Zen 4


Zen 5

 

[Saylick]

AMD's marketing for Zen is now blue/sliver. I like the change. It's refreshing. I bet AMD changed it cause sliver/blue is a calm and cold color denoting Zen 4/5
efficiency and pref/w advantage.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on that slide deck... AMD has traditionally used blue for slide decks that are enterprise or investor focused, i.e. when it's not towards your average consumer. Everything in that slide deck was in blue, but I don't think that means Ryzen and RDNA 3 will be blue themed moving forward.

Red = passion, power, exciting = consumer products
Blue = cool, conservative, reliable = enterprise products

 

[moinmoin]

Its on their product page. DDR5-6000 CL48-48-48-96 1.1v

View attachment 65623

ELITE PLUS U-DIMM DDR5 desktop memory modules

Special heat sink design and high-frequency energy-efficient specification, leading the new generation DDR5 desktop memory

www.teamgroupinc.com

Timings appear to be a simple extension to Jedec standard (which currently tops at 4800 afaik): higher frequency but latency is just adapted accordingly, no real OC going on there latency wise.

AMD's marketing for Zen is now blue/sliver. I like the change. It's refreshing. I bet AMD changed it cause sliver/blue is a calm and cold color denoting Zen 4/5 efficiency and pref/w advantage.

That's the color scheme AMD always uses for Epyc and presentations in server/corporate environments/events. Ryzen/consumer market still uses orange afaik.

 

[Kepler_L2]

They will "3D cache" any CCD they have, Bergammo first in line IMO.

Cloud customers don't care about L3 cache.

 

[Joe NYC]

Cloud customers don't care about L3 cache.

Some specialized cloud instances, such as what Azure cloud demonstrated, do care about L3.

In the general instances - it depends on cloud customer applications...

 

[eek2121]

Cloud customers don't care about L3 cache.

Which customers? I can name some who do...Intel and AMD for starters...🤣

 

[Hans Gruber]

I think they should drop the Ry part and just call it Zen 4.

 

[Shamrock]

DDR5-6000 Memory To Be The Sweet Spot For AMD Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" CPUs, Will Offer 1:1 Infinity Fabric Ratio With EXPO

DDR5-6000 is looking to be the sweet spot for AMD Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" AM5 Desktop CPUs, offering a 1:1 Infinity Fabric ratio with EXPO support.

wccftech.com

The new sweet spot (for making Infinity Fabric 1:1) is DDR5-6000

 

[biostud]

DDR5-6000 Memory To Be The Sweet Spot For AMD Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" CPUs, Will Offer 1:1 Infinity Fabric Ratio With EXPO

DDR5-6000 is looking to be the sweet spot for AMD Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" AM5 Desktop CPUs, offering a 1:1 Infinity Fabric ratio with EXPO support.

wccftech.com

The new sweet spot (for making Infinity Fabric 1:1) is DDR5-6000

as already posted in #7,118

 

[igor_kavinski]

There has to be a big benefit for OCing memory otherwise AMD wouldn't keep reminding everyone how great Zen 4 will be with OCed RAM. I mean, they know the backlash will be significant if OCing the RAM actually results in lower scores.

 

[moinmoin]

Bergamo is all about density. I doubt they'll then go waste area for the TSVs necessary for v-cache.

I think they should drop the Ry part and just call it Zen 4.

I'm sure AMD never used Zen in a commercial capacity because it's not possible to put an exclusive copyright/trademark on it anymore. There is already plenty Zen stuff in tech.

 

[igor_kavinski]

They can trademark ZZZeNNN or zzZeNnn.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Bergamo is cloud services, 3D cache epyc is compute, they're not overlapping much, so no 3d bergamo i'm 90% sure.

See comment by Kepler_L2 below.

Cloud customers don't care about L3 cache.

That's consistent with what Ampere did when moving from Altra to AltraMAX: they cut the SLC in half and added 48 more cores.

wow. there is local hw site with similar bias toward amd and hate for everything intel, nvidia or apple. This is like first time i see that matched, though biased in opposite direction.

There was always AMDZone. I think it's just a poorly-maintained Facebook page now.

 

[nicalandia]

There is No Way they are going back to two CCX per CCD like Zen2. One single 8 core CCD with unified L3 is what boosted the gaming performance..

AMD Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" CPU & Memory Tuning Options Revealed, Infinity Fabric Clock Up To 3.0 GHz

1usmus has managed to extract the latest AMD Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" CPU & DDR5 (EXPO) memory tuning options from the latest BIOS.

wccftech.com

 

[Abwx]

There is No Way they are going back to two CCX per CCD like Zen2. One single 8 core CCD with unified L3 is what boosted the gaming performance..

AMD Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" CPU & Memory Tuning Options Revealed, Infinity Fabric Clock Up To 3.0 GHz

1usmus has managed to extract the latest AMD Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" CPU & DDR5 (EXPO) memory tuning options from the latest BIOS.

wccftech.com

It is said control over up to 4 CCX, and a CCX has 8 cores...

 

[inf64]

Yuri seems to be suggesting (in his twitter reply) that Zen 4 is back to Zen 2 CCX setup, which seems very odd.

 

[nicalandia]

It is said control over up to 4 CCX, and a CCX has 8 cores...

So 32C/64T Confirmed via recent BIOS leak?

 

[nicalandia]

Yuri seems to be suggesting (in his twitter reply) that Zen 4 is back to Zen 2 CCX setup, which seems very odd.

See my post before...

 

[maddie]

It is said control over up to 4 CCX, and a CCX has 8 cores...

Yes it does. The issue is the assumption of 2 chiplets, &/or 8 cores/chiplet. Future products (Zen5 ?) might implement the increase. 32C here we come.

 

[Kaluan]

AMD Rumored To Cut Ryzen 7 5800X3D Prices Next Month Owing To Zen 4’s “Amazing” Gaming Performance

AMD Rumored To Cut Ryzen 7 5800X3D Prices Next Month Owing To Zen 4's "Amazing" Gaming Performance

AMD's first 3D V-Cache CPU, the Ryzen 7 5800X3D, is rumored to receive a price cut next month when the company launches its Zen 4 chips.

wccftech.com

Source is Greymon55 so there's probably some truth to it.

 

[inf64]

See my post before...

I doubt they went back to the old CCX design, it's likely for future (Zen 5) products.

 

[SteinFG]

This article states that UCLK mode had no changes, PBO and Curve Optimizer didn't change too.
So, most likely they just didn't change the CCX Clock Control from Zen 2 days, since it was working fine. That's why there's 4 as a max count. Use the Occam's razor.

 

[nicalandia]

I doubt they went back to the old CCX design, it's likely for future (Zen 5) products.

I meant that 4 CCX is actually 4 CCDs = 32 Cores and 64 Threads? Let me hack and see the Bios Update. I will check back.

 

[Abwx]

So 32C/64T Confirmed via recent BIOS leak?

Yes it does. The issue is the assumption of 2 chiplets, &/or 8 cores/chiplet. Future products (Zen5 ?) might implement the increase. 32C here we come.

For this round they managed to improve perfs thanks to a combination of higher IPC and big frequency uplift as well as quite higher TDP.

For next releases nothing is left other than increasing the core count, possibly with Zen 5 but this CPU is for 2024, in the meantime if there s pressure from Intel they could get up to 24 or 32C if they update the IOD, unless this is already done given that it doesnt take much more silicon for two other links.

 

[moinmoin]

Zen started out with 4 cores per CCX until Zen 3 increased it to 8 cores. Zen 4 seems to use the same config. Zen 4c in Bergamo may change that again, depending on the amount of CCDs and CCXs per CCD.