Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[igor_kavinski]

From what I hear, threadripper 96 cores is SP5 based on 9654 Genoa

Oh so it's gonna be otherworldly expensive then. May as well just pick up a Genoa.

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD Ryzen 3 7440U: First benchmarks show strong single-core performance | igor´sLAB

AMD recently introduced the Ryzen 3 7440U “Phoenix” APU, the only Zen 4 quad-core chip released so far. The first benchmarks of the processor have now surfaced on Geekbench and show quite promising…

www.igorslab.de

Destroying desktop Core i3 in ST performance. That's serious performance for the masses!

 

[StefanR5R]

From what I hear, threadripper 96 cores is SP5 based on 9654 Genoa,

Oh so it's gonna be otherworldly expensive then. May as well just pick up a Genoa.

Its rumored specs are greater than or equal to those of Epyc 9654P, the single-socket-only SKU. So there is your lower bound for the price.

 

[H433x0n]

AMD Ryzen 3 7440U: First benchmarks show strong single-core performance | igor´sLAB

AMD recently introduced the Ryzen 3 7440U “Phoenix” APU, the only Zen 4 quad-core chip released so far. The first benchmarks of the processor have now surfaced on Geekbench and show quite promising…

www.igorslab.de

Destroying desktop Core i3 in ST performance. That's serious performance for the masses!

View attachment 87021

TIL a 1.9% advantage is destroying the competition.

 

[Thunder 57]

TIL a 1.9% advantage is destroying the competition.

Efficiency wise it is. A 7440u is 28W. a 13100f goes up to 72-75W according to Anandtech. That's pretty embarassing.

 

[Joe NYC]

Just realize that, at any time they wanted to, they could release a 5XXX+ line for AM4 based around N6 versions of the existing Zen3 CCDs with zero other changes and boost the MT performance of the AM4 platform by a notable amount, especially the 5900/5950. It wouldn't take a lot of investment either as N6 is supposed to be a "low effort" transition for existing N7 designs.

It is quite strange they did not.

I had a theory (which of course turned out to be wrong) that V-Cache would need new hardware stepping and that AMD would take the opportunity and move Zen 3 to N6.

Since it did not happen then, I don't think it is going to happen in the future...

 

[Hitman928]

Efficiency wise it is. A 7440u is 28W. a 13100f goes up to 72-75W according to Anandtech. That's pretty embarassing.

That is for multi-core loads, but either way, comparing mobile and desktop chips in efficiency isn't really a fair comparison. Granted, I still expect AMD mobile Zen 4 to have better efficiency compared to Intel 13th gen mobile, but you would need to compare them directly and under similar configurations to see by how much AMD leads in efficiency.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Since it did not happen then, I don't think it is going to happen in the future...

But we can still dream.

Zen3+ with V-cache and RDNA 3.5 on AM4 wih DDR4-4000 = 6995GX3D = DROOOOOLLLLL

 

[moinmoin]

AMD screwed up bad by not supporting DDR4 on AM5.

I highly doubt it would have made a tangible difference. AM5 along Zen 4 was already delayed and due to the pandemic an earlier time likely wouldn't have worked out well either. And the farther from launch we go the more negligible the cost difference between DDR4 and 5 is.

In the end AM5 was always going to start out expensive, with DDR5 being just one part of the reason.

 

[igor_kavinski]

GPD accuses AMD of breaching contract by not supplying enough Ryzen 7 7840U APUs on time - VideoCardz.com

GPD Win Max 2 facing delays due to lack of Ryzen 7 7840U chips The company claims that AMD breached the contract by not supplying Ryzen APUs on time. GPD, a long-time AMD partner known for their clamshell design handheld consoles, has introduced the Win Max 2. Their product lineup predominantly...

videocardz.com

Breach seems like a very strong word. Could AMD be in serious legal trouble?

 

[Hitman928]

GPD accuses AMD of breaching contract by not supplying enough Ryzen 7 7840U APUs on time - VideoCardz.com

GPD Win Max 2 facing delays due to lack of Ryzen 7 7840U chips The company claims that AMD breached the contract by not supplying Ryzen APUs on time. GPD, a long-time AMD partner known for their clamshell design handheld consoles, has introduced the Win Max 2. Their product lineup predominantly...

videocardz.com

Breach seems like a very strong word. Could AMD be in serious legal trouble?

Doesn't look like it. GPD's contract would be with a distributor (their upstream supplier), not AMD directly. It may be that AMD didn't supply the expected amount (or in the expected time frame) to the distributor, but I highly doubt the distributor had a contract with AMD that required 'X' units by 'Y' date, that would be very unusual.

Edit: Most likely it's the same situation so many crowd sourced projects have. They promise project delivery by a certain date but can't actually procure the parts until they have the money from the funding drive. Once they get the money and go to procure the parts, the time to receive the parts is much longer than expected due to their own miscalculations or delivery dates have been pushed back due to supply/demand and then they start looking to pin the blame on someone else so the crowd funding backers don't pull their contributions. Just look at how Steam deck was handled where they had to do multiple rounds of deliveries that were being pushed out 6 months or more and they are a much bigger player than GPD who was working directly with AMD on a semi-custom chip. Over promise, under deliver, and blame it on someone else is the crowd sourcing way.

 

[trivik12]

Zen 4 laptops are at least available now at very attractive prices. https://slickdeals.net/f/16994893-l...pro-7840u-64gb-lpddr5-1tb-ssd-win-11-pro-1059 with 7840u and 64GB RAM !!!! and 1 TB SSD with OLED screen as well for $1059. Just add 3 yrs of warranty and you are good.

 

[Ajay]

Zen 4 laptops are at least available now at very attractive prices. https://slickdeals.net/f/16994893-l...pro-7840u-64gb-lpddr5-1tb-ssd-win-11-pro-1059 with 7840u and 64GB RAM !!!! and 1 TB SSD with OLED screen as well for $1059. Just add 3 yrs of warranty and you are good.

Does slickdeals have a good rep? Heard of them, never bought from them.

 

[jpiniero]

Does slickdeals have a good rep? Heard of them, never bought from them.

Slickdeals is just a deals finder site. The laptop in question is by Lenovo.

 

[LightningZ71]

Zen 4 laptops are at least available now at very attractive prices. https://slickdeals.net/f/16994893-l...pro-7840u-64gb-lpddr5-1tb-ssd-win-11-pro-1059 with 7840u and 64GB RAM !!!! and 1 TB SSD with OLED screen as well for $1059. Just add 3 yrs of warranty and you are good.

On their website, the LOQ 16 AMD is available with a 7840hs and an nvidia 4060 8gb for ~$1079. My son has that combo and it performs broadly the same or better than his previous 6800hx/6800m laptop (warranty buy back due to motherboard failure).

Similar price, drastically better video performance on mains with similar performance on battery.

 

[Ajay]

Slickdeals is just a deals finder site. The laptop in question is by Lenovo.

Thanks!

 

[trivik12]

Slickdeals is just a deals finder site. The laptop in question is by Lenovo.

I have never bought anything in almost last 2 decades without seeing it on Slickdeals. Every deal is posted and you get counter opinions as well(folks who have had issues with the product or retailer selling it). Plus you get all the coupons that you can use to get best possible price and even tricks to make it cheaper(chatting with Samsung reps online helps you get coupons etc). But its specifically for US only.

 

[eek2121]

AMD to launch Threadripper 7000 PRO and non-PRO Zen4 CPUs, designed for WRX90 and TRX50 motherboards - VideoCardz.com

AMD to launch Zen4 based Threadripper PRO and non-PRO AMD is set to introduce new CPUs and chipsets tomorrow. We’ve just received the initial renders of the upcoming Threadripper processors. It’s clear that AMD is once again introducing non-PRO versions, distinguished by a new packaging from the...

videocardz.com

*chuckles* help! my wallet is in danger!

 

[StefanR5R]

So, based on VideoCardz' supposed product images, a 96-core SKU at the top of the Threadripper 7000 line is going to be shipped in the same 58.5mm x 75.4mm package size of EPYC Naples/ Rome/ Milan/ Siena and of all of the previous Ryzen Threadripper series.

 

[Markfw]

So, based on VideoCardz' supposed product images, a 96-core SKU at the top of the Threadripper 7000 line is going to be shipped in the same 58.5mm x 75.4mm package size of EPYC Naples/ Rome/ Milan/ Siena and of all of the previous Ryzen Threadripper series.

they say sTR5, not sure the dimensions of that.

But this confirms they can all use the same heatsink ??

Amazon.com

Too bad nothing like that for Genoa

 

[Tigerick]

Am I right to assume there are going to have two different family of Threadripper series? 7000 series which considered HEDT and 7000 Pro series as workstation PC.

Last time AMD is making 3000 series for DIY market and 5000 Pro series for OEM workstation PC.

AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals

Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

www.anandtech.com

AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals

Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

www.anandtech.com

 

[jpiniero]

Am I right to assume there are going to have two different family of Threadripper series? 7000 series which considered HEDT and 7000 Pro series as workstation PC.

Last time AMD is making 3000 series as DIY market and 5000 Pro series as OEM workstation PC.

The 5000 series did get released to DIY eventually.

 

[SteinFG]

Am I right to assume there are going to have two different family of Threadripper series? 7000 series which considered HEDT and 7000 Pro series as workstation PC.

Last time AMD is making 3000 series as DIY market and 5000 Pro series as OEM workstation PC.

AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals

Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

www.anandtech.com

AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals

Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

www.anandtech.com

Considering 2 different Box designs in the article, yes. I wonder what the differences are going to be. Regular is probably 4-channel / 64 PCIe / only UDIMM; And Pro is 8-channel / 64-128 PCIe

 

[moinmoin]

That so far raises more questions than it gives answers. If the form factor is indeed the same as previous TR gens, is it then based on Siena/SP6 with 6 channels? But how do they manage 96 cores/12 CCDs then, wouldn't that actually require Zen 4c CCDs, and then 6 of them? And how would it then differentiate between Pro and non-Pro if the max of 6 channels is already less than the previous TR Pro gen?

Could well mean that now both TR and TR Pro are truly platforms of their own, distinct from the existing server platforms. That's unexpected.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

So, did anyone already say farewell to their arm and a leg?