Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

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What do you expect with Zen 4?


  • Total voters
    330
  • Poll closed .

JustViewing

Junior Member
Aug 17, 2022
20
39
46
Not sure I follow. I thought 2 E cores ~= one P cores, yes ? (in performance, not power)

Are you saying one P-core ~= 4 E cores in power ?
Area is more like 4 P-core ~= 12 E-core. For AMD, zen 3 core is about double the size of E-Core, but also double the performance. So there won't be area efficiency for AMD to implement E-Cores
 
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Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,251
1,070
126
If you are buying a 13900k/7950X you better have some work that requires heavily threaded performance.
I'm not sure about this. Despite the amount of cores in each CPU, they are still mainstream parts. If I do upgrade this year, I'll probably get either a 13900K or 7900x, and the most multithreaded workloads I ever do are gaming and encoding.

Professional rendering or encoding though typically use Xeon, Threadrippers or Epyc CPUs.

If you only have have work that is lightly threaded, how is it going to perform better on a hybrid design than a regular design, as it is only using a few cores?
I'm talking about performance per watt. The 12900K has better performance per watt than the 5950x in gaming, browsing and other lightly threaded applications as I recall.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,308
3,197
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Sandra fits Zen 4 very well. 7zip or CPU-Z do not.
Which is strange because LZMA is branch-misprediction heavy and the much larger uOP-cache in Zen 4 is supposed to help in such workloads. Could it be that we are seeing diminishing returns to increasing the uOP-cache size?
 
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igor_kavinski

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2020
4,866
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Which is strange because LZMA is branch-misprediction heavy and the much larger uOP-cache in Zen 4 is supposed to help in such workloads. Could it be that we are seeing diminishing returns to increasing the uOP-cache size?
Better to test that theory with something else, like LZMA Utils (tukaani.org). Could be that 7-zip code has some room for improvement left in it.
 
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deasd

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
422
544
136
7z in hwbot is not a good benchmark, 12900k with LN2 @6.7Ghz could only catch up with PBO 5950x which score around 180000mips:


2022-09-22_14-42-49.png



and some 6C result below show it is a mess, I even couldn't tell what 7z is testing, absolutely no affect by ST/MT performance......

2022-09-22_14-38-45.jpg





OTOH the Cinebench result across different version R15 R20 R23, are better than I expected, R23 ~44% faster than a PBO 5950x! but I would rather see stock result cuz the temperature reach limit.
 

DisEnchantment

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2017
1,307
4,066
136
7z in hwbot is not a good benchmark, 12900k with LN2 @6.7Ghz could only catch up with PBO 5950x which score around 180000mips:
I believe it is because Zen architecture is exceptional in decompression performance. If you go all the way to Zen 2 you can see the advantage it had in 7z is very large.
 
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Just Benching

Member
Sep 3, 2022
127
71
56
When NDA Lifts and Reviews come in the entire Ryzen 7000 Line Up Will dominate current Intel Skus. No Questions about it.
What do you meant current? Alderlake? Yeah sure, with the exception of the 7600x getting pummeled by the 12600k, and probably the 7700x getting its ass handed to it by the 12700k, you are right. But they don't compete with alderlake, thry compete with Raptor
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
16,578
2,080
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Uhm, efficiency comparisons should be done at iso wattage. Anything else is flawed.
Not necessarily, as long as you specify the test conditions it is fine by me.

You can test at:
max performance no power limit
iso wattage
optimal performance/watt

All three will give different results and are to me valid test scenarios, but I agree that the first scenario does not make sense in most cases.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
19,997
8,982
136
Also, we'll see if you're still singing the same song when Intel's mainstream CPUs eventually have 32 efficiency cores with the IPC of a Zen 3 core or better.
It is a very, very long wait 'til Arrow Lake. And that assumes no delays (see: Meteor Lake). Add a few more 'very's if Intel stumbles again. Raptor Lake has to anchor desktop for Intel for around two years if current schedules are to be believed. The fact that Raphael - and not even Raphael-X - seems to be positioned to dominate Raptor Lake in a large number of benchmarks is not a good look for Intel.
 

PJVol

Member
May 25, 2020
120
93
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I'm curious, is "RPL" officially used anywhere to refer to Intel 13-series cpus?
Saw this abbreviation posted before by the same person (APISAK) regarding raptorlake (just bored, sorry ) )
 
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moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
3,827
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If true these would indicate that AMD finally managed to demolish the hard frequency wall as well as the v/f hockey stick curve of previous gens/nodes and support other reports that Zen 4 is essentially solely limited by temperature. Still personally wouldn't believe those numbers for now, feels way too high to be true.
 
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nicalandia

Platinum Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,192
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If true these would indicate that AMD finally managed to demolish the hard frequency wall as well as the v/f hockey stick curve of previous gens/nodes and support other reports that Zen 4 is essentially solely limited by temperature. Still personally wouldn't believe those numbers for now, feels way too high to be true.
APIKSA Has been delivering the Goods lately so I trust the source.
 

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