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Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

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Vattila

Vattila

Senior member
Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

Untitled2.png


What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts! 🙂
 
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rainy said:
You've clearly missed that: https://www.techpowerup.com/297736/...at-applies-zen-4-ddr5-6000-sweetspot-settings

Btw, limiting access to your profile wasn't a great idea because I was still able to find this "gem" of yours:
Click to expand...

You've clearly missed that Zen 4 is not rated for anything past DDR5-5200. This is a fact.

AMD also recommended DDR4-3800 for Zen 3, and many could not hit that as their IF wouldn't go to 1900. Or probably, you didn't know that, because you're just ignorant that way right.

I think you'll find that 'gem' of mine is in fact true.

Since you posted it out of context, here's a reminder that the 7600X needs to compete in widely used applications like Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom, Visual Studio 2019 / CLANG, and Premiere Pro.

You know, stuff people actually recognize the name of because people actually USE. As opposed to something like V-Ray.

But go ahead and enjoy for the moment. There's a reason there is an embargo for the next month, where only AMDs released "information" is available. [Image link deleted]


Personal insults are not allowed in the tech forums.

AT Mod Usandthem
 
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Exist50 said:
AMD did not say +49% performance at the same power vs the 5000 series. They have a chart with numbers at various TDPs. Moreover, the last 60W will get comparatively little performance, as always.
Click to expand...
See the first picture of the slide in post 8403 AS I SAID. It says exactly that.
 
inf64 said:
Geekbench ST analysis between 12900KS and 7600X, AES excluded.

Text Compression
1635​
2060​
0.79
Image Compression
2049​
2046​
1.00
Navigation
1683​
1679​
1.00
HTML5
1833​
1766​
1.04
SQLite
1812​
1709​
1.06
PDF Rendering
1943​
1653​
1.18
Text Rendering
1960​
1820​
1.08
Clang
1794​
1928​
0.93
Camera
1822​
1638​
1.11
N-Body Physics
1986​
2193​
0.91
Rigid Body Physics
1966​
1960​
1.00
Gaussian Blur
1949​
2323​
0.84
Face Detection
2155​
2121​
1.02
Horizon Detection
1764​
1720​
1.03
Image Inpainting
3582​
3853​
0.93
HDR
3629​
3928​
0.92
Ray Tracing
2625​
2507​
1.05
Structure from Motion
1784​
1580​
1.13
Speech Recognition
1864​
1959​
0.95
Machine Learning
1605​
1787​
0.90
Average0.99
12900KS ran at slightly higher peak clock (5461 vs 5394; 0.987x factor)
IPC excluding AES: 0.99 x 0.987 = 0.977 or ~ 2% lower IPC than Zen 4

This fits perfectly with AMD's 13% number, as Golden Cove has ~11% higher IPC than Zen 3 according to Ian's deep dive article and ComputerBase average ST chart (normalized for clockspeed)
Click to expand...
Good job on the effort. I wish you'd use data with two identical Operating Systems, though.
 
TESKATLIPOKA said:
Really?
Raptor Lake 8P16E is 257mm2
Zen 4 16C is 122 + 72 + 72 = 266mm2
Click to expand...
Well, Raptor Lake is 24c,32t where Zen4 is 16c,32t to make it even more confusing. But at least they both have IGPU's. The question, is, how good are those, and how does that contribute to area ?
 
CakeMonster said:
I merged the supposed 7950X with the 12900KS comparison link from earlier:

Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7D30 vs ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench

browser.geekbench.com browser.geekbench.com
Click to expand...
Very Impressive to say the least. One thing I am noticing is that the Crypto Score is just doubling(from 7,000 to 12,000) from ST to MT. That has got to be a Bug or something. On Genoa they are killing it. Perhaps the it's the 12 Channel vs Dual Channel difference?

1661879301940.png

1661879329044.png


I will do the comparison with the 13900K that is boosting to 5.8 Ghz
 
Markfw said:
Well, what memory speed are the 2 using ? And of course this is one test. The benchmarks of these 2, including power usage, heat and more, are going to be very interesting in a month !
Click to expand...
Both at Stock..

If they are trading blows at Geekbench, this clearly confirms that AMD will take the gaming lead, no doubt about it. I mean the 7600X is already on par with 5800X3D and ahead of the 12900K. So the 5950X will surely be the Gaming King
 
nicalandia said:
Both at Stock..

If they are trading blows at Geekbench, this clearly confirms that AMD will take the gaming lead, no doubt about it. I mean the 7600X is already on par with 5800X3D and ahead of the 12900K. So the 5950X will surely be the Gaming King
Click to expand...
It's premature to call Zen 4 the gaming king when we know that over a sample of 40 games, the 5800X3D essentially ties the 12900K. Don't just go by AMD's gaming numbers.
 
tamz_msc said:
It's premature to call Zen 4 the gaming king when we know that over a sample of 40 games, the 5800X3D essentially ties the 12900K. Don't just go by AMD's gaming numbers.
Click to expand...
Lets put it this way. AMD Look our 5800X3D is 5% higher than 12900K, in real benchmarks they are more or less a match... AMD, Hey look our 7600X beat the 12900K by 5%, they will basically match when reviews are out.....

That will leave the 7950X the new gaming King.
 
tamz_msc said:
It's premature to call Zen 4 the gaming king when we know that over a sample of 40 games, the 5800X3D essentially ties the 12900K. Don't just go by AMD's gaming numbers.
Click to expand...

13% IPC improvement in 7 ZIP is indicative of Integer perf improvement, with the frequency uplift this translate by 29% better INT perf for the 7600X vs 5600X and 7950X vs 5950X, this should show in apps like games, and more importantly for servers loads.
 
nicalandia said:
Lets put it this way. AMD Look our 5800X3D is 5% higher than 12900K, in real benchmarks they are more or less a match... AMD, Hey look our 7600X beat the 12900K by 5%, they will basically match when reviews are out.....

That will leave the 7950X the new gaming King.
Click to expand...
Aren't you discounting Raptor Lake?
 
Abwx said:
13% IPC improvement in 7 ZIP is indicative of Integer perf improvement, with the frequency uplift this translate by 29% better INT perf for the 7600X vs 5600X and 7950X vs 5950X, this should show in apps like games, and more importantly for servers loads.
Click to expand...
Games scale completely different to applications. 29% faster ST doesn't mean 29% faster in games.
 
Det0x said:
13900k results from the "360 AIO" leak which turned out to be a chiller ?
Now we know the reason for Intel's new 350w power limit by default on most performance motherboards that will be used in reviews.. Its what's needed to ~match a stock 7950x in GB5 😛
Click to expand...
There is no 350W power limit. That was a result of someone playing with motherboard settings to get 40,000 pts in Cinebench R23 multithread.
 
shady28 said:
You've clearly missed that Zen 4 is not rated for anything past DDR5-5200. This is a fact.

AMD also recommended DDR4-3800 for Zen 3, and many could not hit that as their IF wouldn't go to 1900. Or probably, you didn't know that, because you're just ignorant that way right.
Click to expand...

No, you're wrong again, majority of Zen 3 owners could use DDR4-3600/3800, some even DDR4-4000.
You'll see the same scenario with Zen 4 as well, despite it's AMD just first gen with DDR5 support.

Officially Zen 3 support only up to DDR-3200 because it's an JEDEC standard.

shady28 said:
Since you posted it out of context, here's a reminder that the 7600X needs to compete in widely used applications like Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom, Visual Studio 2019 / CLANG, and Premiere Pro.

You know, stuff people actually recognize the name of because people actually USE. As opposed to something like V-Ray.
Click to expand...

I think, it's not quite fair, if you want to see comparison of 7600x vs13900K in those programs./s
 
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