Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[DisEnchantment]

AMD did slip after all, Zen 4 coming 2H22.
2Y for a midlife architecture update. That means 4Y for a grounds up architecture jump (vs the much advertised 3Y new arch cadence and 18 months product cadence)
4 Years is quite a long time, enough time for things to change drastically in the market. Lets see what they have to say on their "flawless roadmap execution", I hope someone from the media ask them that question

AMD confirms Ryzen 7 5800X3D launches this spring, Zen4 Raphael in 2H 2022 - VideoCardz.com

AMD reveals Zen4 Raphael CPU design Desktop Ryzen CPUs with 3D V-Cache and next-gen Ryzen with Zen4 architecture are part of the CES 2022 announcements. AMD finally confirmed the name of the upcoming Ryzen CPU with 3D V-Cache. The Ryzen 7 5800X3D will offer ‘extreme gaming performance’ and it...

videocardz.com

 

[DrMrLordX]

Wow, looks like AMD is going full bore on the server segment. Desktop is getting scraps. Only one Zen3D SKU? Maybe they think the 5950X can hold its own against Alder Lake, which it mostly can.

 

[igor_kavinski]

L4 cache must have a curse or something. i7-5775C availability was bad. Then none of the follow-up L4 cache Intel CPU's were desktop CPU's. And now AMD is gonna starve gamers with a low quantity single SKU. I'm not happy!

 

[leoneazzurro]

Well V-cache is not technically L4, it is L3. But, as said, it seems that almost everything is going into the server market, which is normal as there is tight supply and way better margins on server tier CPUs.

 

[biostud]

AMD did slip after all, Zen 4 coming 2H22.
2Y for a midlife architecture update. That means 4Y for a grounds up architecture jump (vs the much advertised 3Y new arch cadence and 18 months product cadence)
4 Years is quite a long time, enough time for things to change drastically in the market. Lets see what they have to say on their "flawless roadmap execution", I hope someone from the media ask them that question

View attachment 55419

AMD confirms Ryzen 7 5800X3D launches this spring, Zen4 Raphael in 2H 2022 - VideoCardz.com

AMD reveals Zen4 Raphael CPU design Desktop Ryzen CPUs with 3D V-Cache and next-gen Ryzen with Zen4 architecture are part of the CES 2022 announcements. AMD finally confirmed the name of the upcoming Ryzen CPU with 3D V-Cache. The Ryzen 7 5800X3D will offer ‘extreme gaming performance’ and it...

videocardz.com

Is it something new that zen4 is launched at 2H22? If anything I thought it was 4Q22 based on earlier rumors/roadmaps. And compared to Intels recent track record it is pretty flawless. Maybe the whole Corona situation have had some effect on the roadmaps?

And in any case the major problem for the enthusiast PC gaming industry is not the lack of good CPU's but the lack of video cards. So for me at least, what does it help that I can buy a 5800X3D when I'm still stuck with my GTX1070...

I hope that 2023 will be the year I can upgrade my aging computer and get a video card at a reasonable price :/

 

[Joe NYC]

AMD Ryzen 7000 'Raphael' 5nm Zen 4 Chiplet Layout Suggest Up To 16 Cores Per Die With 64 MB L3 Cache Moved To Vertical Stacks

An alleged diagram of AMD's next-gen Ryzen 7000 'Raphael' CPU's chiplet layout featuring up to 16 5nm Zen 4 cores has leaked out.

wccftech.com

Rumor suggests that AMD will make 16 core chiplets, 8 with L3 cache stacked running at a low TDP, and the rest at full power.

This makes sense if they can charge enough. Especially if these are actually two chiplets bridged together.

Interesting rumor / speculation / leak. On first sight, I can't say I love it. 8 useless cores on expensive N5 die, likely replacing 32 MB of L3 on the same die.

So the stacked design adds 32 MB of L3 and 8 useless cores at cost of base CPU having to use stacking.

If still only 1 layer of stacking is possible, it would be quite bad. It would mean losing 32 MB of L3 (vs. Zen 3) for the entire Zen 4 generation (for desktop).

 

[igor_kavinski]

So for me at least, what does it help that I can buy a 5800X3D when I'm still stuck with my GTX1070...

5800X3D would still mean a good performance uplift for those gaming at 1080P on their 240Hz monitors.

 

[Joe NYC]

5800X3D would still mean a good performance uplift for those gaming at 1080P on their 240Hz monitors.

Also, a good uplift for CPU intensive games.

 

[biostud]

5800X3D would still mean a good performance uplift for those gaming at 1080P on their 240Hz monitors.

But not for those playing on their 5120x1440p 240Hz monitor with a 1070

Also, with the AM5 platform "just" around the corner and the price of video cards ATM, I don't want to invest in the AM4 platform.

 

[LightningZ71]

If they are making a 5800x3d, it stands to reason that there's no logistical or technical reason that they couldn't make a 5950x3d. If we suppose that the limitations are around AMD choosing to pretest the Zen3 die to verify that all 8 cores are suitable for use, then both of those SKUs would be appropriate. If we suppose that there is a slight power hit for the L3 stacked die, then it stands to reason that they could produce a 5950x3d that has a slightly reduced max boost turbo and still hit power targets. The only stopping point that I can see is that AMD believes that they can't command a high enough price to make it worth it. With it being the likely best CPU ever released for a platform that has millions of installed motherboards that can support it, I can't see that being the case either. I believe that there will be a 5950x3d at some point. It makes too much sense.

 

[MadRat]

Could you put mini-cores in pods with the L2 or L3 cache to bypass the larger cores? It would keep the lightest workload from tying up the expensive core. It would also allow the larger core to mitigate heat because it sticks to tasks it is most suited for, right? The simpler cores would spread their heat away from the larger core(s).

 

[DrMrLordX]

Is it something new that zen4 is launched at 2H22?

It was always a possibility, albeit an undesirable one. There were rumours floating that Raphael would be announced at Computex. Looks like that won't be happening.

 

[igor_kavinski]

So AMD beat Intel in implementing the Pluton security features in Ryzen 6000 mobile series. Intel expected to follow suit with Raptor Lake in supporting this feature?

 

[eek2121]

Is it something new that zen4 is launched at 2H22? If anything I thought it was 4Q22 based on earlier rumors/roadmaps. And compared to Intels recent track record it is pretty flawless. Maybe the whole Corona situation have had some effect on the roadmaps?

And in any case the major problem for the enthusiast PC gaming industry is not the lack of good CPU's but the lack of video cards. So for me at least, what does it help that I can buy a 5800X3D when I'm still stuck with my GTX1070...

I hope that 2023 will be the year I can upgrade my aging computer and get a video card at a reasonable price :/

No, it was supposed to be H2 all along. It will launch at Computex and roll out a few weeks later. Also, unsure why the other poster is complaining. Zen 3 desktop launched in November of 2020, and Zen 4 is launching around 20 months after. Considering supply chain issues, a global pandemic, etc. I think they are doing just fine.

 

[DrMrLordX]

No, it was supposed to be H2 all along. It will launch at Computex and roll out a few weeks later.

Computex is in May. A few weeks later would put the launch in June . . . H1.

H2 is a pretty big launch window nevertheless. July? December? Who knows?

 

[Thunder 57]

Computex is in May. A few weeks later would put the launch in June . . . H1.

H2 is a pretty big launch window nevertheless. July? December? Who knows?

I've always read H1/H2 as Q2/Q4.

 

[Timmah!]

Well, from my point of interest - in other words Zen 4 or potentially new Threadripper, that was rather disappointing.

 

[.vodka]

Lisa says, "All those Zen4 cores are running at 5GHz" during a halo infinite demo.

Good to know there is no frequency regression. (Gaming isn't an intensive workload, of course, but it's good to hear)

 

[igor_kavinski]

I'm more excited about 6000 mobile CPU's than Zen3D at the moment

 

[eek2121]

Zen 4 5ghz all core boost…weeeee!

 

[Kedas]

Zen 4 5ghz all core boost…weeeee!

Yes one of the interesting things mentioned. Does she mean 8 or 16 cores?

 

[eek2121]

Yes one of the interesting things mentioned. Does she mean 8 or 16 cores?

Likely 8 or 6. “1080p gaming” indicates it is not the highest end chip.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I've always read H1/H2 as Q2/Q4.

Normally yes. If AMD is saying H2 2022 for Zen4 it doesn't mean "a few weeks after Computex". That would have been an H1 launch.

 

[eek2121]

Normally yes. If AMD is saying H2 2022 for Zen4 it doesn't mean "a few weeks after Computex". That would have been an H1 launch.

Give me a break.

H1 = Jan - June
H2 = Jul - Dec

Computex is the end of May, around 5 weeks before H2. AMD has launched Zen products around that time before.

Unless AMD has further Zen3D products scheduled, Zen 4 will likely launch some time in July or possibly early August.

They have Raptor Lake to compete against, so I seriously doubt they are going to wait long to release Zen 4 unless Zen3D actually kills it in mixed workloads across many segments (and they roll out the 5900X3D/5950X3D).

EDIT: Zen 3 was announced on October 8, 2020 and Launched in November 5th. Zen 2 was announced at computex and launched on 7/7, etc.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I highly doubt that Intel can top AMD's announced product portfolio. Amazing times.