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Speculation: Ryzen 4000 series/Zen 3

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Richie Rich

Senior member
Jul 28, 2019
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This is CES. The actual Zen 3 public announcement will be focused on the server market as always. Only after that we will get information specific to the desktop market.
In compare to last year where AMD presented Zen 2 EPYC performance and showed 8c Ryzen CPU w/o heatspreader....this year there was basically no info about Zen 3. The reason could be that Zen 3 is more about architecture change than the layout change (high core count with chiplet design was unveiled at CES 2019). And also if AMD unveil Zen 3 as 6xALU+SMT4 powerfull uarch they would hurt sales of Zen 2 (especially when ordered higher waffer delivery from TSMC).
 

Tuna-Fish

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2011
1,032
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In compare to last year where AMD presented Zen 2 EPYC performance and showed 8c Ryzen CPU w/o heatspreader....this year there was basically no info about Zen 3.
I think the real reason why no Zen3 info this early is that by all accounts, Zen2 is currently selling very well and they don't want to Osborne themselves. Now that the typical sale that would not be done by someone waiting for Zen3 is a Ryzen, they want to talk about them as late as possible.
 

moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
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In compare to last year where AMD presented Zen 2 EPYC performance and showed 8c Ryzen CPU w/o heatspreader....this year there was basically no info about Zen 3. The reason could be that Zen 3 is more about architecture change than the layout change (high core count with chiplet design was unveiled at CES 2019). And also if AMD unveil Zen 3 as 6xALU+SMT4 powerfull uarch they would hurt sales of Zen 2 (especially when ordered higher waffer delivery from TSMC).
They only teased with the package shot, some few benchmarks as well as the roadmap. We didn't get more info until months later, which even caused additional rumors once Threadripper was dropped from said roadmap.

Right now they are already riding on a high wave of the ongoing roll out and don't need to tease even better stuff for the rest of the year (aside the upcoming launch of the 64c Threadripper). As for the roadmap AMD keeps emphasizing their execution being on time, so they may feel they no longer need to publicly offer the outlook but can let the short term announcements and launches speak for themselves.
 

amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
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Has anything new come out about any cache system redesign? Additionally, not clear whether rumored for Zen3 or Zen4, but I keep hearing rumors thrown around about substantial L4$ on IOD or a separate chiplet and I can't for the life of me find any source for the rumors. But it's interesting at least.
 

RetroZombie

Senior member
Nov 5, 2019
464
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I agree with tuna-fish regarding the osburne effect, their current line is already superior to the intel line, showing they have something even better, would start competing with themselves.
 
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lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,341
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In compare to last year where AMD presented Zen 2 EPYC performance and showed 8c Ryzen CPU w/o heatspreader....this year there was basically no info about Zen 3. The reason could be that Zen 3 is more about architecture change than the layout change (high core count with chiplet design was unveiled at CES 2019). And also if AMD unveil Zen 3 as 6xALU+SMT4 powerfull uarch they would hurt sales of Zen 2 (especially when ordered higher waffer delivery from TSMC).
You have to do stand-up, I'm telling you. You could fill entire football arenas with this performance.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,872
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Why is amd talking about zen3 as a new arch? Unlike from zen2?
Didnt Nosta find some evidense the name was from a new family?

As we saw on the arm a73 to a75 making the cpu wider even at that small size for a beginning isnt always giving the expected benefit - as noted by andrei. It needs to be balanced. Look what a a77 can do vs a76. Where did that ipc come from.

But from the way amd talks about it, it seems like a bigger overhaul designwise than zen2. More than some shared l3 and tricks.
Granted 7nm and chiplets is such gigantic step i havnt seen similar the last 30 years, so its not like the arch itself is always the most important. Still. I think there is more to it.

I am a bit confused. Keller said about bd something to the effect amd tried the make the ocean boil.

Sometimes its just simple wellknown work and design, that just takes lots of hard work to get done precise and perfect in all the details.

Right technology at right time as Lisa says. I mean with Keller and Papermaster she have just perfected that dicipline.

We shouldnt expect something fancy. Thats for sure.
 
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NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
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Why is amd talking about zen3 as a new arch? Unlike from zen2?
Didnt Nosta find some evidense the name was from a new family?
My guy:
Zen3 is a "refresh" it will be targeting N7P, not N7+.
Zen4 is a new architecture and it will be Family 19h and be on the N5 node. <== The CCD of this will launch with Apple, Hisilicon, Qualcomm, etc 5nm ~1cm2 products.

A bunch of N7+ products have been dropped by AMD. However, N7P and N6 rose up. The news/rumors/whatever given was too early to tell if N7P Zen3 went to N6.

With that Milan(Zen3/Family 17h) is a short-term Pipecleaner for Genoa's(Zen4/Family 19h Models 00h-0Fh) new platform. Family 19h(5nm core) Models 20h-2Fh(Vermeer) is going to appear first as it going to an existing platform => AM4.
 
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lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,341
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My guy:
Zen3 is a "refresh" it will be targeting N7P, not N7+.
Zen4 is a new architecture and it will be Family 19h and be on the N5 node. <== The CCD of this will launch with Apple, Hisilicon, Qualcomm, etc 5nm ~1cm2 products.

A bunch of N7+ products have been dropped by AMD. However, N7P and N6 rose up. The news/rumors/whatever given was too early to tell if N7P Zen3 went to N6.
What is the purpose of dumping here this imaginary nonsense of 'your guy', when AMD already said it publicly, officially and multiple times in the past month, that Zen 3 is a completely new uArch? Sure, they just suddenly dropped it last week. Totally realistic.
I'm really curious, what are you trying to achieve with these things? It sure starts to seem like deliberate provocation.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,167
676
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Zen 3 is a completely new uArch?
Family number in every Zen3 processor is Family 17h or Family 18h(Zen2(18h 10h-1Fh)/Zen3(18h 20h-2Fh) pre-Dhyana semi-custom). The Zen3 architecture in architecture 18h and 20h-2Fh is just an improved Zen2 architecture 18h 10h-1Fh. There isn't any from scratch push for Zen3, it has all been pulled to Zen4. The IPC improvement so far is set to be ~12% from Zen2. With no improvement in high TDP CCDs, but significant improvement in low TDP CCDs.
2 CCDs at 115W => no improvement, no reason for Zen3(purely architecture... which only goes up to the L2 cache)
8 CCDs at 220W => significant improvement.

TSMC's N5-HPC is built for High TDP, w/ better metal vias, better CPP control, yadda yadda from N7.
 
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lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,341
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Family number in every Zen3 processor is Family 17h or Family 18h(Zen2(18h 10h-1Fh)/Zen3(18h 20h-2Fh) pre-Dhyana semi-custom). The Zen3 architecture in architecture 18h and 20h-2Fh is just an improved Zen2 architecture 18h 10h-1Fh. There isn't any from scratch push for Zen3, it has all been pulled to Zen4. The IPC improvement so far is set to be ~12% from Zen2. With no improvement in high TDP CCDs, but significant improvement in low TDP CCDs.
2 CCDs at 115W => no improvement, no reason for Zen3(purely architecture... which only goes up to the L2 cache)
8 CCDs at 220W => significant improvement.

TSMC's N5-HPC is built for High TDP, w/ better metal vias, better CPP control, yadda yadda from N7.
I will always believe your guy and your sudoku game of numbers over Mark Papermaster's official interview answer. /s
 

Ottonomous

Senior member
May 15, 2014
552
288
136
That last one CZN must be Cézanne (as in Post-Impressionist painter Paul Cézanne).

Possible Zen 4 codename?

Or a Zen 3 APU codename maybe.
Probably the latter, Benoit Matisse and Picasso referred to Cezanne 'as the father of us all'. Paul also emphasized geometric perception in his imagery so maybe the codename is a culmination of efforts in the form of a powerful CPU with a beefy RDNA2 GPU
 

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