uzzi38
Golden Member
- Oct 16, 2019
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Uh, aren't they just RAVEN2?The new Athlons are just salvaged/fused off Renoir dies. Dali is coming later.
Uh, aren't they just RAVEN2?The new Athlons are just salvaged/fused off Renoir dies. Dali is coming later.
Or that, not a new die like Dali in any case.Uh, aren't they just RAVEN2?
While Renoir will still be based in Zen 2, like the previous APUs it will contain microcode of the next Zen gen, so Zen 3 in this case. If the rumor of Renoir having 8 cores is correct (and it prolly should be, with Intel increasing the number of cores as well), this would mean two CCXs with 4 cores each. The "next gen" microcode would have to handle the increasing latency two CCXs would otherwise introduce while retaining the significantly smaller L3$ size of APUs compared to the server/desktop dies.
To me it sounds like DisEnchantment's interpretation of the patents is spot on (assuming compute block = CCX, so definitely L3$):
The new Athlons are Zen(Zen+?).The new Athlons are just salvaged/fused off Renoir dies. Dali is coming later.
There is a high chance of mobile Renoir to be better. But only because Picasso in mobile is working below expectations. Im far more worried about desktop APUs, this makes me to belive that the 4200G will be a Vega 6 just like the roumor said, that just wrong, even if it ends up performing better than the 3200G.In mobile its still going to be an upgrade, because The Vega 10 GPU on Picasso doesn't run anywhere near 1.3GHz, and closer to 900MHz.
If they can bring the gaming frequencies to say 1.4-1.5GHz, it'll end up performing much better, especially with the premium LPDDR4x setup.
I think it's a side effect of them hitting the market segmentation properly this time. 15w laptops with better igpus for the smaller form factors and 45w targeting discrete gpus in mid and high end gaming and workstation laptops. The market for low end gaming laptop is probably too small and might be served by any skus set to 25-35w currently.There is a high chance of mobile Renoir to be better. But only because Picasso in mobile is working below expectations. Im far more worried about desktop APUs, this makes me to belive that the 4200G will be a Vega 6 just like the roumor said, that just wrong, even if it ends up performing better than the 3200G.
I think you're sort of right, on the desktop at least. A 6core/8gpu would make more sense there and give a sub $200 price point like the 2400g before it. This is with me assuming there will be price drops to compete with intel's 10th gen desktops, 6/12 i5s will mean ~$150 that the r5 3600 will need to meet. Maybe 200-250 for the r7+igpu? Although that's still too much.I wish that there had been a U series processor released that had a 6/12 core configuration with a full fat 8CU iGPU I have to question what their pricing model will be.
You're missing the dGPU that is likely to be included in the multimedia/gaming/content creation machines that come with this CPU.Also, i dont understand is why the 4800H, have smaller gpu and graphics frequency than the 4800U. What im missing here?
Clearly TDP, those 45W APU will have mobile GPU as well, there's no reason for bigger/stronger IGP.Also, i dont understand is why the 4800H, have smaller gpu and graphics frequency than the 4800U. What im missing here?
It looks like that's what speed shift is all about with some extra bits that amd can afford to implement as they have both the cpu and gpu. Certainly need a small igpu for these laptops but only a small one.Then i dont understand the point of having an igp if thats the case, is AMD going to use something similar to Nvidia Optimus?
Probably AMD's goal here is probably to have many a different configuration as possible with as few sku's as possible. This should make binning tons easier.Having 7cus is an odd choice and just looks like it's for binning for the full feature chips goto the 4800u and faulty parts goto 4800h.
If Apple ordered from AMD a custom Renoir APU AKA Van Gogh with more powerfull integrated GPU then this could be a reason for Renoir having just 8 CU. I wouldn't surprised using HBM as more power efficient configuration.Any guess when we'll see Van Gogh APUs? Is it Apple exclusive ZEN2 + RDNA2(?), maybe rumored Apple gaming notebook?
How so?If Apple ordered from AMD a custom Renoir APU AKA Van Gogh with more powerfull integrated GPU then this could be a reason for Renoir having just 8 CU.
These are laptops though, the vast majority of the sales are going to be the low end versions and with the expected yield they'll be chopping bits off to fill the multiple low end skus, are they expecting the 12nm raven ridge (picasso?) to fill the low end and have renoir in the mid/high performance and premium tiers despite there are 4core sku. The previous gen was better in this regard with the r5 and r7 both having 4c/8t and different cu counts instead, similar to the ice lake U segmentation.Probably AMD's goal here is probably to have many a different configuration as possible with as few sku's as possible. This should make binning tons easier.
AMD has a real winner on their hands with ZEN2, they are still wafer constrained I think. There's no point for them to show ZEN3 and make people to wait for ZEN3 instead of buying ZEN2 products. Plus there are desktop APUs left to launch.Interesting is why AMD didn't released info about Zen 3. Could it be due to Zen 3 is delayed to Q4 20?
Even then they can bin by demand. But whats worth more 6 core 4CU unit or a 8c 4CU unit. If you have an option to sell 8 functioning dies do you want to just say screw it and sell it as low core unit, or do you want the option to sell it in scenario's where the system is more likely to have a dGPU for 3d work anyways?These are laptops though, the vast majority of the sales are going to be the low end versions and with the expected yield they'll be chopping bits off to fill the multiple low end skus, are they expecting the 12nm raven ridge (picasso?) to fill the low end and have renoir in the mid/high performance and premium tiers despite there are 4core sku. The previous gen was better in this regard with the r5 and r7 both having 4c/8t and different cu counts instead, similar to the ice lake U segmentation.
It's more the spread of the skus. I was trying to point out that laptops tend to sell low end chips more often and amd probably has good yields on a 150mm^2 chip. so I don't think there'll be much need for such specific binning. Nothing is going above 4.2ghz and from the desktop ryzens it looks like 4.2ghz is almost free, stability and power draw only really starts to suck when going above that.Even then they can bin by demand. But whats worth more 6 core 4CU unit or a 8c 4CU unit. If you have an option to sell 8 functioning dies do you want to just say screw it and sell it as low core unit, or do you want the option to sell it in scenario's where the system is more likely to have a dGPU for 3d work anyways?
Like in the desktop market I think it's best to think of these SKUs as upper limits regarding core/cu count and frequencies that can still be further customized using cTDP and all the PB2 parameters. This makes further SKU segmentation unnecessary. But if a company still really wants that AMD has shown to be willing to deliver some exclusive "semi custom" (more like custom binned, if that) SKUs.It looks like that's what speed shift is all about with some extra bits that amd can afford to implement as they have both the cpu and gpu. Certainly need a small igpu for these laptops but only a small one.
It is a bit weird at the choice of skus though. Why not two different cpus with 8/16cores, one with full fat 8cu and another with a more significant 4cu cut for power saving and give the option to vendors with the expectation of the 4cu selling more in the dgpu systems.
Having 7cus is an odd choice and just looks like it's for binning for the full feature chips goto the 4800u and faulty parts goto 4800h.
This is CES. The actual Zen 3 public announcement will be focused on the server market as always. Only after that we will get information specific to the desktop market.Interesting is why AMD didn't released info about Zen 3. Could it be due to Zen 3 is delayed to Q4 20?
That's because the 15W parts are higher binning than the 45W parts. The 4800u is an elite bin (igp f=1750) while 4800H/HS is likely a similar (high) bin as 4700u. However, it seems likely the cpu-igpu throttling will be much more minor in the 45W and 35W chips than in the 15W chips. So this advantage might even out the freq and CU disadvantage, making the iGPU pretty similar between H and U series.Also, i dont understand is why the 4800H, have smaller gpu and graphics frequency than the 4800U. What im missing here?
I still want to belive Renoir still is in fact a 10CU-11CU, and they are just not using it on mobile, only 8CU max on desktop will put AMD on a very thin ice for segmentation.I also ask myself why they have tops 7CU in this H series, and my best guess is they may be saving the highest clocking 8CU parts that can't make the cutoff for 4800u (and maybe also not for 4700u/4600u) for the AM4 desktop. So hopefully when they do arrive for AM4 we will get some 8CU 8c SKUs and a 6c/12t one too.