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Speculation: Ryzen 4000 series/Zen 3

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Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
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Exactly. That's what I've been saying. There's a new damning report out there right now that Sony has cut production for the current agreed upon term ending in March 2021 by 4M units. 11M is now the projected rate. Which meant they had at some point increased their projected order from 10M to 17M. This is the first I'm hearing about it because they increased from 6M to 10M a few months ago.

The issue they're stating is yield issues. However, a deeper dive into the article says they're having trouble reaching the clock speeds on the GPU. This isn't surprising. I doubt Microsoft is having such issues as they took a more mainstream and conservative approach to clock speeds for the GPU vs. Sony's 2.2+ Ghz.
Do you have a link to this report?
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
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Do you have a link to this report?
Run it through Google translate.


Microsoft isn't facing yield issues. They're disabling CUs on theirs. TSMC has incredibly high yields compared to anyone else. Microsoft has their RDNA2 running at 1.5 Ghz for the S and 1.8 Ghz for the X. Sony has their RDNA2 running at 2.2 Ghz, with a variable rate Zen2 processor at 3.5 Ghz compared to 3.6 Ghz for the S and 3.8 Ghz for the X.
 

DiogoDX

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
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For me is a indication that sony bumped the gpu clocks after de design was completed. So basically is a overclocked gpu to close the gap with microsoft decreasing the yields.

Old rumors was around 9tflops (36Cu at 2ghz).
 

leoneazzurro

Senior member
Jul 26, 2016
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Well the presentation about the PS5 seems to show that PS5 CUs are different from desktop RDNA2 CUs (which were indicated as "larger" or "beefier"). So one should think why desktop RDNA2 Cus are bigger, a possibility is that they have more resources avaiable and/or they are designed for higher clocks and for this reason they need additional circuitry...
But this is the thread about Zen3, so this is completely OT.
 
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Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
2,777
2,126
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Run it through Google translate.


Microsoft isn't facing yield issues. They're disabling CUs on theirs. TSMC has incredibly high yields compared to anyone else. Microsoft has their RDNA2 running at 1.5 Ghz for the S and 1.8 Ghz for the X. Sony has their RDNA2 running at 2.2 Ghz, with a variable rate Zen2 processor at 3.5 Ghz compared to 3.6 Ghz for the S and 3.8 Ghz for the X.
Thanks.
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
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For me is a indication that sony bumped the gpu clocks after de design was completed. So basically is a overclocked gpu to close the gap with microsoft decreasing the yields.

Old rumors was around 9tflops (36Cu at 2ghz).
Yes. Apparently the author of the Japanese article is a known fibber. However, the bump in clocks is fairly high and it isn't completely unlike Sony to pull something stupid. Yield issues can mean just about anything. Sony pushing clocks sky high while looking for a set range in energy use can easily screw up their yields. Sony. Always going against the grain. Just because.
 

obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,183
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I've been out of the loop a while. I was looking at a R7 3700x, but will now wait for 4000. How does the tiers usually launch? How long after until the R7, lower range models come out?
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
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There is only two credible rumors from Asia.
- Zen3 ES is N7P, thus Zen3 MP will be N7P. (Matisse 3, basically)
- Zen3 was on N7+, but has long been shifted to N5. (Sept-Oct launch, with general availability end of Q4 to 1Q21)

Only EUV-node that AMD has processor blocks(FE, LSU, Core, FPU, Bus, L2, L3) + IO interface is on 5nm.

Zen3 on N7P is pretty much in line with a ~1:1 refresh of Matisse/Rome.
Zen3 on N5 is also pretty much in line with a new CPU architecture.

00h-2Fh basically being Zen2 goes well with N7P.
30h and greater being true Zen3 goes well with N5.

Zen3/Zen4 architects are 5nm only though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lets keep the doom and gloom up: 7nm designs in 2018. 5nm designs in 2022. For AMD.
While for Apple w/ more complex SoCs; 7nm in 2018, 5nm in 2020, 3nm in 2022.
 
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Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
2,777
2,126
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There is only two credible rumors from Asia.
- Zen3 ES is N7P, thus Zen3 MP will be N7P. (Matisse 3, basically)
- Zen3 was on N7+, but has long been shifted to N5. (Sept-Oct launch, with general availability end of Q4 to 1Q21)

Only EUV-node that AMD has processor blocks(FE, LSU, Core, FPU, Bus, L2, L3) + IO interface is on 5nm.

Zen3 on N7P is pretty much in line with a ~1:1 refresh of Matisse/Rome.
Zen3 on N5 is also pretty much in line with a new CPU architecture.

00h-2Fh basically being Zen2 goes well with N7P.
30h and greater being true Zen3 goes well with N5.

Zen3/Zen4 architects are 5nm only though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lets keep the doom and gloom up: 7nm designs in 2018. 5nm designs in 2022. For AMD.
While for Apple w/ more complex SoCs; 7nm in 2018, 5nm in 2020, 3nm in 2022.
I'll take AMD's word for it.
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
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I've been out of the loop a while. I was looking at a R7 3700x, but will now wait for 4000. How does the tiers usually launch? How long after until the R7, lower range models come out?
Flagships first, then later models. Except with Zen 2 they launched the entire lineup on the same day. They also launched the video cards on the same day. I spoke to some well known reviewers about it in private. The general consensus was they were all pissed TF off with AMD for doing that. A lot of testing with short notice.
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
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@Kenmitch Thanks for that. I posted it in the RDNA thread but couldn't remember where else I'd posted the link. Someone drew up the older articles with the numbers fluxing, and it seems as if it's the same Bloomberg journalists. I wonder if there's some pump and dump going on. I'll let someone forward their suspicions after January to the SEC.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Do we have any idea which parts/tiers are which core counts? Is R7 still 8c? Or 10-12?
No idea, though I suspect R7 will encompass 8c if core counts stay the same as Zen2 (which they probably will).

Oh nice dude. Any idea when TR may show up? March-May?
God only knows. AMD is always funny about HEDT. It took 7 months for the 3990X to hit the market after the launch of Matisse, so earliest I would expect it would be May 2021.
 
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Feb 17, 2020
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Do we have any idea which parts/tiers are which core counts? Is R7 still 8c? Or 10-12?
Realistically speaking, the core counts will probably be more or less be the same across the stack. A 10-core could slot into where the 3800X was if yields/binning/volume alloow. So Ryzen 7 3700X 8-core (probably the best pure gaming chip with unified L3) and Ryzen 7 3800X as a 10-core part. Would make that sku stand out more.
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
771
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God only knows. AMD is always funny about HEDT. It took 7 months for the 3990X to hit the market after the launch of Matisse, so earliest I would expect it would be May 2021.
Wasn't that delayed for some reason? I don't think I'll be getting a 4990X. TR is a fantasy for me. I don't think I'd be able to use it for what it is. I'd be paying a lot of money I wouldn't be grinding down with my workload.

A lot of my build is fluid. I don't have a clue what AMD prices will be like for Zen 3. They may be significantly higher. As much as I'd love to spend $5,000 on an ultimate build and do hard tubing, I need to ground myself with what I know I'll use and make use of.

Thanks though. I must have missed the alert for this post earlier today.

Realistically speaking, the core counts will probably be more or less be the same across the stack. A 10-core could slot into where the 3800X was if yields/binning/volume alloow. So Ryzen 7 3700X 8-core (probably the best pure gaming chip with unified L3) and Ryzen 7 3800X as a 10-core part. Would make that sku stand out more.
Some price shifting at the low end methinks.
 

dnavas

Senior member
Feb 25, 2017
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LOL, NO, just no.
So you're saying there's a chance? I mean, one of the hot rumors is they're renaming to 5xxx. Clearly this means they've hit 5Ghz on 5nm and throwing in ddr5 and pcie5 and avx512. Also, SMT5.

j/k [Obviously it just means marketing has lost their collective minds.... snafu]

Maybe we need a new rumor? Launch is delayed two days until 10/10 at 10:10.

I'm actually wondering whether it's worth building a new TR rig on Zen3 -- I can live without new memory, but pcie5/cxl seems like a shift worth getting ahead of?
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,188
691
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Zen3 N5 = Tapeout in Q3 2019(Same period as A14-ES tapeout) => Potentially, 6T-57Cx/38Mx
Zen4 N5P = Tapeout in Q3 2020 => Potentially, 6T-51Cx/34Mx

Zen3 and Zen4 having DDR5 or PCIe 5.0 is on the IOD, not the CCDs. New IOD can lead to a new model series though.

Native 512-bit is unlikely, as I have been constantly been bombarded that they are returning to 128-bit native for F/V concerns. There is also a shift from the split Integer-FPU after retire to a fully unified execution pipe.

Zen3 on 5nm is the full new architecture, while Zen3 on 7nm is basically just Zen2 w/ extras.
Zen3 on 5nm is in-line with the "next-gen Zen" architecture(which through investigative is actual Zen3, aka first meditative post-Zen core) that popped on July 2019+. With 5nm being there since 2017~2018 timeframe on timesaved archives.

Zen/Zen2 => Derivative from Apple's A7
Zen3/Zen4 => Derivative from a post-Vulc v8.3-A+SVE architecture from Broadcom that had a target of beating Intel.
True Zen3 is thus, faster than any Intel arch at Games, Office, Web, Server, Cloud, HPC.
 
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A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
771
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I'm actually wondering whether it's worth building a new TR rig on Zen3 -- I can live without new memory, but pcie5/cxl seems like a shift worth getting ahead of?
High cost, buggy new platform with new never before seen tech, high price of parts especially DDR5. I'd probably look into Zen3 Threadripper 4000 and see if it'll work for you. I'd skip TR5 and go for TR6. They'll probably sport more cores and much better performance with a mature DDR5 by then.

Or YOLO it and buy a TR system for Zen 3, 4 and 5. :p
 

Hans Gruber

Senior member
Dec 23, 2006
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High cost, buggy new platform with new never before seen tech, high price of parts especially DDR5. I'd probably look into Zen3 Threadripper 4000 and see if it'll work for you. I'd skip TR5 and go for TR6. They'll probably sport more cores and much better performance with a mature DDR5 by then.

Or YOLO it and buy a TR system for Zen 3, 4 and 5. :p
Remember when a new memory standard is introduced. That means the previous generation (DDR4) will be faster out of the gate than DDR5. The new memory standard gets faster with time.
 

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