Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

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What will Ryzen 3000 for AM4 look like?


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amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
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No, the silicon is essentially the same (the slightly denser 12nm allows for better spacing thus the higher reachable frequencies). The higher latency on consumer Zen was actually a bug and not by design, they were fixed in Epyc and Threadripper, but not in Ryzen until Zen+.
Good to know - I figured there was some physical change to the IMC but I suppose not!
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
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The only thing that i dont understand is why they allowed Picasso stock to run so low, they could have produced more Picassos instead of the 1600AF/1200AF. The APUs are produced at a diferent fab or something? The 3400G is gone and at this rate the 3200G will follow, why that happened when they are wasting 12nm production for the 1600AF/1200AF is beyond me.
It'd be nice if they had a lower frequency bin than the 3400g; I guess something like an AF version of the 2400g. Same CU's and threads but milder frequencies.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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So, conjecture.
Everything that does not come directly from AMD is.

Not really. If they EOL the 2600 and push everyone to the 3600 while producing the 1600AF for pennies and selling it to the downmarket, it just expands their marketshare.
The thing is the 2600 is nowhere near of being EOL, at the same time they are producing the 1600AF, so back to my original statement, with this many skus middle area being cheaper and not that slower, do you really think the 3600 is selling as well as it should? I think not, so the 3100 existence is not a suprise to me, they need a faster way to sell of Zen 2 chips ahead of Zen 3 launch, otherwise they would have left that spot to Renoir.
 
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amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
797
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The thing is the 2600 is nowhere near of being EOL, at the same time they are producing the 1600AF and 1200AF, so back to my original statement, with this many skus middle area being cheaper and not that slower, do you really think the 3600 is selling as well as it should and stock is not pilling up? As i see this every day, the 3100 existence is not a suprise to me, they need a faster way to get rid of Zen 2 chips ahead of Zen 3 launch, otherwise they would have left that spot to Renoir.
AMD has a huge 6C/12T lineup performance-wise ranging from 1600AF to 3600X. I think the problem of course for 2600 is that 1600AF is just a more poorly-binned 2600, and the price difference is too big to justify that ($85 vs $150) given the minimal performance difference. And the price difference between 2600 and 3600 is too narrow ($150 vs $175) with too big a performance gap to justify buying a 2600 in that case. And the 3600X is barely pricier than the 3600, only $20 more, with a better cooler.

Right now I don't really see a reason to buy a 2600, 2600X, or 3600 over a 1600AF or 3600X.

I don't know what's going on there. I would say it's poorly binned chiplets they're trying to get rid of, but 3300X boosts to 4.3 (higher than 3600). It could be that the chips are well-binned but had one CCX entirely defective? Or, as you said, it could be that they're done with Zen2 and are just dumping chiplets.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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AMD has a huge 6C/12T lineup performance-wise ranging from 1600AF to 3600X. I think the problem of course for 2600 is that 1600AF is just a more poorly-binned 2600, and the price difference is too big to justify that ($85 vs $150) given the minimal performance difference. And the price difference between 2600 and 3600 is too narrow ($150 vs $175) with too big a performance gap to justify buying a 2600 in that case. And the 3600X is barely pricier than the 3600, only $20 more, with a better cooler.

Right now I don't really see a reason to buy a 2600, 2600X, or 3600 over a 1600AF or 3600X.

I don't know what's going on there. I would say it's poorly binned chiplets they're trying to get rid of, but 3300X boosts to 4.3 (higher than 3600). It could be that the chips are well-binned but had one CCX entirely defective? Or, as you said, it could be that they're done with Zen2 and are just dumping chiplets.
The price gap from the 2600 to 3600 was wider, for a while it was $150 vs $199, with the original 1600 still at around $100. Now that the 3600 dropped in price there is no reason for going 2600 over the 3600, at least in the US, here the price gap is around 40%.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Based on what? Are they making more of them?
As far as i know, no 12nm CPU or APU is EOL. Not even the 3400G, at least not until we get word from 100% official channels.
The only reason that make sence for the 1600AF (and 1200AF) to exist is because they have far too many 2600 produced already and they still have to buy the 12nm production so they came out with another, cheaper model so they can dump that production faster.

I dont expect any 12nm CPU to be EOL until they switch all 12nm production into making new Athlons that may be a cut-down version of Picasso. Just like Raven2 on 14nm.

It'd be nice if they had a lower frequency bin than the 3400g; I guess something like an AF version of the 2400g. Same CU's and threads but milder frequencies.
Im convinced that they are going to come out with something like "Picasso2" for Athlon 4000s, most likely 4/4 and 4/8 Zen+ Athlons with something like Vega 4-6. Both for desktop and notebooks. While keeping 14nm Raven2 on 2/4 Vega 3 on entry level for as long as they have to keep buying 14nm.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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As far as i know, no 12nm CPU or APU is EOL. Not even the 3400G, at least not until we get word from 100% official channels.
. . . okay.

The only reason that make sence for the 1600AF (and 1200AF) to exist is because they have far too many 2600 produced already and they still have to buy the 12nm production so they came out with another, cheaper model so they can dump that production faster.
Or a). they aren't producing any more 2xxx-series Pinnacle Ridge hexcores, b). they want a product to sell in the space below the lingering stock of 2600 and 2600x CPUs, c). they didn't (at the time) have a cheap quad-core based on Matisse, and d). they need to do something with all the now-very-cheap 12nm wafers from GF so why not?

It's either that or pay not to take them.

I dont expect any 12nm CPU to be EOL until they switch all 12nm production into making new Athlons that may be a cut-down version of Picasso. Just like Raven2 on 14nm.
Why? Maybe those SKUs just don't fit into their price hierarchy very well and they need to clear stock, so they'll focus 12nm wafer supply on other CPUs like the 1600AF etc.?

It's clear neither you nor I have enough information to logically conclude that the 1600AF represents a "problem" for AMD. You're ignoring the fact that the downmarket has been suffering over the last . . . 1 1/2 - 2 years now from Intel chip shortages. It's not necessarily a bad thing for AMD to have a bunch of excess Pinnacle Ridge stock when they pay very little to take the wafers they're using and can keep selling them at relatively-healthy volumes.

There isn't any evidence at all to suggest that the 1600AF has hurt sales of anything AMD still has in the channel, at least not in any way that's deleterious to the brand.
 

eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
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Anything recent made by Global Foundries won't be EOLed for a while. AMD IS moving to 7nm as quickly as possible, however.

Best I can tell they are selling their 14nm/12nm parts at relatively low margins just to dump wafers. I expect they will continue to do that until their obligations are met. I also expect Zen 4000 and up to use 100% 7nm (and below). 14nm/12nm will be restricted to the budget sector.

I honestly think Global Foundries screwed up by dumping everything below 12nm. They would have made a ton of money had they remained partnered with AMD, and there is no doubt in my mind AMD would not have hesitated to remain partnered with them if GloFo had delivered.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Anything recent made by Global Foundries won't be EOLed for a while. AMD IS moving to 7nm as quickly as possible, however.

Best I can tell they are selling their 14nm/12nm parts at relatively low margins just to dump wafers. I expect they will continue to do that until their obligations are met. I also expect Zen 4000 and up to use 100% 7nm (and below). 14nm/12nm will be restricted to the budget sector.

I honestly think Global Foundries screwed up by dumping everything below 12nm. They would have made a ton of money had they remained partnered with AMD, and there is no doubt in my mind AMD would not have hesitated to remain partnered with them if GloFo had delivered.
Exactly.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Why? Maybe those SKUs just don't fit into their price hierarchy very well and they need to clear stock, so they'll focus 12nm wafer supply on other CPUs like the 1600AF etc.?

It's clear neither you nor I have enough information to logically conclude that the 1600AF represents a "problem" for AMD. You're ignoring the fact that the downmarket has been suffering over the last . . . 1 1/2 - 2 years now from Intel chip shortages. It's not necessarily a bad thing for AMD to have a bunch of excess Pinnacle Ridge stock when they pay very little to take the wafers they're using and can keep selling them at relatively-healthy volumes.

There isn't any evidence at all to suggest that the 1600AF has hurt sales of anything AMD still has in the channel, at least not in any way that's deleterious to the brand.
Not sure if "problem" is the right word here, all i know is that they reverted to making CPU-only Zen 2 below 6 cores, something they did not bother to do on Zen+, while diverting 12nm production for making 1600AFs, all while 2600 stock is still strong and at the same time Picasso stock is running low. There are far too many CPUs below $150, now they are adding more in the area that should be for a 4/8 Renoir APU. The question is why, and i dont think they are reacting to a unreleased product when they have far too many cpus and they have something far better coming up.
 

NostaSeronx

Platinum Member
Sep 18, 2011
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Supposedly... Matisse => ---- => Vermeer

The blank is a 6nm IOD/2x 6nm Zen2 CCD setup. It will be the LTS(long-term support) chip going forward.

LTS chips are what will be shipped if you have problems with the next AMx socket.
 
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Geranium

Junior Member
Apr 22, 2020
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B550 != A320. If you will recall, one of the major things AMD had to change moving to PCIe4.0 was trace routing. Thin PCBs with traces routed for PCIe 3.0 were AT BEST working only for the first PCIe slot typically reserved for dGPUs. You weren't getting PCIe 4.0 to any of your m.2 slots or to any of the other PCIe slots further away from the CPU socket. B550 would have been designed from the ground-up to be compliant with the guidelines PCISIG established for PCIe 4.0 wrt proper routing of traces and meeting the minimum standards for motherboard layers (which supposedly was 6-layer, though some x570s are only 4-layer boards, hmm). It would have supported multiple PCIe slots and m.2 slots at PCIe 4.0 speeds. Unlike any of the 400 and 300-series chipsets. You can't infer anything about B550 from observations about A320.

Fact is that 300 and 400-series chipset boards were in no way, shape, or form compliant with the standards established by PCI SIG. Advertising them as PCIe 4.0 boards would have been dishonest, even if you could (maybe )get one PCIe slot working at those speeds as a hack. That it drove additional sales of x570 was a nice bonus, and probably motivated AMD to just pull the plug anyway because, why fret over it? It's not like anyone in the consumer market would benefit from PCIe 4.0 compliance in one PCIe slot anyway.
Some people are not happy, that they cant blame AMD for BOSD or system stability if AMD had enabled PCI-e 4.0 on PCI-e 3.0 motherboard.

Those who STILL blaming AMD for no PCI-e 4 no non PCI-e 4 platform, those MB maker didn't put bigger UEFI chip when AMD explicitly said that they will support AM4 through 2020. And you guys assuming that those same MB maker will put PCI-e 4 supported trace on PCI-e 3 board?? :cool:
Think.
 

Geranium

Junior Member
Apr 22, 2020
20
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Where you guys getting those imaginary 1600AF and 1200AF cpus?? There is nothing like those on AMD's official product list. Unless you guys taking serial number as product name, then there is also an another one 1600TRAY. The new 1600TRAY maybe be new the new 7nm Zen2 based??
Here is AMD's Ryzen 5 lineup : https://www.amd.com/en/ryzen-5

Who was the stupid that calling those 1600, 1600AF?? And when did serial number start to become product name?? I wonder how many version of Navi10 there is then with that much of RX 5600, RX 5600 XT, RX 5600M, RX 5700, RX 5700 XT, RX 5700M, WX5700, WX5700X SKUS, ranging form 7nm to 130nm!!
 
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amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
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Some people are not happy, that they cant blame AMD for BOSD or system stability if AMD had enabled PCI-e 4.0 on PCI-e 3.0 motherboard.

Those who STILL blaming AMD for no PCI-e 4 no non PCI-e 4 platform, those MB maker didn't put bigger UEFI chip when AMD explicitly said that they will support AM4 through 2020. And you guys assuming that those same MB maker will put PCI-e 4 supported trace on PCI-e 3 board?? :cool:
Think.
MB makers are used to Intel changing sockets every time a drunkard farts in public. We'll forgive them for their insolence.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
15,494
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Where you guys getting those imaginary 1600AF and 1200AF cpus??

YD1600BBAFBOX



Who was the stupid that calling those 1600, 1600AF??
They're downbinned 2600s. The only way to properly differentiate between them and older 14nm R5 1600 CPUs is to mention the distinctive product code (ending in "AF"). Please stop calling people stupid when they provide you with useful information. Thank you.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
15,494
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Anything recent made by Global Foundries won't be EOLed for a while.
AMD killed Summit Ridge pretty quickly. It was probably easier for them to do that since they could just take wafers from the improved node, but still.

Best I can tell they are selling their 14nm/12nm parts at relatively low margins just to dump wafers.
That's probably true. We don't know the product makeup of what they're pushing into supply channels though.

2600 stock is still strong
Based on what? The only halfway-decent numbers we have typically come from mindfactory.de, and as much as I love getting their data, it doesn't tell us all that much. Plus recent data is skewed thanks to Covid-19. Regardless, we have no idea what's left in the channel and what is fresh product unless someone buying 2600s shows us some dates from the lid.

There are far too many CPUs below $150
Too many for who? They're gonna do something with those wafers, so may as well sell product.

@moinmoin

I would take sales numbers over the last month with a grain of salt since everything is skewed right now. Though I doubt it would do much to change the proportion of 2600s and 1600AFs sold.

mindfactory managed to sell about as many 2600s as 3900xs in February. They clearly had some stock back then, just not a whole lot. Seems like not much has changed, looking back over the data again.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
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May 16, 2002
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With AMD outselling Intel by more than 6 to 1 in Europe, why is the US still stuck buying a decent share of Intel ?
 

amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
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With AMD outselling Intel by more than 6 to 1 in Europe, why is the US still stuck buying a decent share of Intel ?
IIRC Mindfactory is basically similar to Amazon/PCPartPicker/Newegg sales here in US.

Based on "popularity" results I'd imagine the outselling is similar here if you look at the same market as Mindfactory analyzes.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Most PC's, both in the US and Europe, are sold as prebuilt. Mindfactory sells to people who build their own machines.
Yeah. Intel's desktop volume was only down 4% in Q1 compared to the previous year. Which is about how things have been going for them for some time. That'll change in Q2, but that's more due to the virus.
 

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