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Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

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What will Ryzen 3000 for AM4 look like?


  • Total voters
    223

Saylick

Senior member
Sep 10, 2012
603
87
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As I understand it CB mirrors perfectly the performance in Maxxons 4d software suite. So it's more or less 100% correlated to a real application. So it's actually not synthetic in that way like eg specint/fps.
Software is different. I mean it doesn't correlate to old game engines that more or less rely on a dx11 path that is more memory latency limited than more fpu throughput limited.
That said the performance seems pretty brutal if the numbers is true that is.
What software are you interested in?
I don't have a specific piece of software in mind but given that AMD usually shows off their Zen CPUs using Cinebench where their architecture is favored, I wanted to see how well Cinebench performance translates to other applications, like encoding, photo editing, or gaming. I suppose in terms of some of the other benchmarks, it's going to be more sensitive to memory latency so it won't be exactly apples-to-apples.
 

Mockingbird

Senior member
Feb 12, 2017
733
737
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Anyone know if Ryzen Matisse G CPUs can be overclocked.
I’d really like to overclock the 65 watt 3300G.

Thanks
There is no such thing as Matisse G.

Matisse doesn't have an iGPU

There is no "Ryzen 3 3300G".

It's a hoax old Jim invented to get people to click on his videos.
 
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.vodka

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2014
1,101
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It's a hoax old Jim invented to get people to click on his videos.
How about we wait until everything gets launched and then we check against what he had leaked/"leaked" (depending on what view one could have about the guy)

Only then can we definitely get to know if he has good sources or not, or if he outright makes things up.

Deal?
 

AAbattery

Junior Member
Jan 11, 2019
3
6
41
Jim believes that Renoir was supposed to be the 3300G and 3600G but was delayed from late Q3 to 2020. Loncraz suggested on Reddit it was placed to help make the leak less believable or easier to catch the leaker, depending on whether it was an intentional leak or not.
I think they intended to release Renoir this year if they could, with a different I/O die from Matisse, but ran into an issue.

We have to keep in mind, this list came out in December, right? It would be extremely difficult to make something so accurate so far in advance on CPU specs if made up without inside knowledge, (pricing notwithstanding), so I find it far easier to believe plans changed on the APUs.
 

Mockingbird

Senior member
Feb 12, 2017
733
737
106
Jim believes that Renoir was supposed to be the 3300G and 3600G but was delayed from late Q3 to 2020. Loncraz suggested on Reddit it was placed to help make the leak less believable or easier to catch the leaker, depending on whether it was an intentional leak or not.
I think they intended to release Renoir this year if they could, with a different I/O die from Matisse, but ran into an issue.
Renoir was always intended to be for 2020

 

itsmydamnation

Golden Member
Feb 6, 2011
1,894
941
136
Let's see what happens when all those fat fpu are fed with all those double resources. Yeaa 7nm great but they still go to perhaps 16c. I guess that 570 vrm is some serious stuff because my math say 150w plus for top 16c model.
Well if there is no negative offset it should run at base clock, and every other workload should run higher then base :)

Why 150watt plus, that would be something like 16c @ low 4ghz
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
667
169
86
There is no such thing as Matisse G.

Matisse doesn't have an iGPU

There is no "Ryzen 3 3300G".

It's a hoax old Jim invented to get people to click on his videos.
I definitely could see a 3300G but it would be Picasso, probably with SMT enabled but clocked (below) a tad more modestly than 3200g. Or some other variation of Picasso.

Only then can we definitely get to know if he has good sources or not, or if he outright makes things up.
I think that question is already more or less known. I don't see how anyone can see a 7nm hexacore CPU (and with an iGPU as well) positioned between the 4c/4t 3200g and the 4c/8c 3400g.

It would clearly have to be 4 to 8 threads, and at least 3 cores, with the most likely being 4 cores.

If it were 6c/6t it would need to have a very big frequency handicap, like ~3ghz or below with almost no to little boost frequency above that, in order to justify being placed between 3200g/3400g. All else would be total nonsequitor, would never in the history of AMD nor marketing (in the world of multinationals) have occured before. Now the odds of bottom bin 7nm die salvage fitting this bill (and not being better suitable for server or embedded) are very low. It's Occam's razor, and Jim would have to show convincing evidence that 7nm bottom bin might have this property.

As far as Matisse having a small iGPU it can't be ruled out yet, but the odds imho are long, like ballpark 20%.
 
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Mockingbird

Senior member
Feb 12, 2017
733
737
106
I definitely could see a 3300G but it would be Picasso, probably with SMT enabled but clocked more modestly than 3200g. Or some other variation of Picasso.
Sorry, what I mean is that, even if Ryzen 3 3300G exists, it wouldn't be anything like the rumors.

As far as Matisse having a small iGPU it can't be ruled out yet, but the odds imho are long, like ballpark 20%.
AMD has already ruled out this possibility:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/amd-no-chiplet-apu-variant-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
667
169
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Sorry, what I mean is that, even if Ryzen 3 3300G exists, it wouldn't be anything like the rumors.



AMD has already ruled out this possibility:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/amd-no-chiplet-apu-variant-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000

It ruled out the possibility (this year) of a chiplet iGPU. This doesn't mean that a tiny (Vega 3) iGPU built into the hub isn't a possibility.

The anand article states that this 14nm hub is 122.6 mm2. Picasso-L or Raven2 (or whatever it may be called) is around halft the size of RR. Credits to Nosta Seronx for spotting this:



So that would be about half of 210mm2, or 105mm2.

Suppose Raven2 above is 111mm2, with the dual-core half CCX being 21mm2, it means that the iGPU (including display uncore) plus the memory controller, plus the rest of the uncore is 90mm2. (I'm guessing display and GPU account for a little over half of this 90mm2).

Anyway, with 90mm2 being an APU minus CCX, comparing this figure with the 123mm2 IO hub, this leaves another 33mm2 to pull off what extras Zen2 chiplets require (like more infinite fabric, buffers, coherency logic, etc).
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
4,283
648
126
his leaves another 33mm2 to pull off what extras Zen2 chiplets require (like more infinite fabric, buffers, coherency logic, etc).
and tons of pcie4. i rather have an l4 cache than igpu on the io die. But both are dreams and not really needed. given the connectivity with x570 and matisse, it's encroaching hedt space. no need for an igpu there.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,810
1,403
136
Well if there is no negative offset it should run at base clock, and every other workload should run higher then base :)

Why 150watt plus, that would be something like 16c @ low 4ghz
The 4.2 8c is what we have seen from amd with this aprox 2200 CB score. Was around the 75w as I recall. 4.2 base for 16c 32x 256bit fpu working, seems like pretty high base to me? Know it's more borderline so rest of the time higher. I Dont have any technical insight, What's your take on it?
 

lobz

Senior member
Feb 10, 2017
363
295
106
There is no such thing as Matisse G.

Matisse doesn't have an iGPU

There is no "Ryzen 3 3300G".

It's a hoax old Jim invented to get people to click on his videos.
You know, it's gotten quite tiresome always having to watch you so desperately trying to discredit a man, who so clearly explains the background of everything he shares with his audience (if only you even bothered...), and then you turn around and say _he_ has a messiah complex... Well, then I have no idea what your condition should be called, instead I just wish this forum had the option to let me hide your comments.
Sorry for being a little off topic.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,226
293
136
Ok. So 570 is 24 x pci 4.0 and is presented next weeks. That moves am4 a bit closer to hedt market imo.
I mean if we get a 4200 CB 15 score and 24 x pci 4.0 the only major thing left of current hedt market is memory bandwidth.
It is a major leap and I have no doubt this is not a 500 usd cpu. More like 700. And the 570 boards will have Intel prices to boot.
Save up guys :)
I'm thinking X570 is going to be $160+ for a board, and only *needed* for the highest perf cpu's or to get the features with a non X cpu.

I still think they are going to release an 8c/16t 65w (12c/24t???) something along the lines of $200 ish (less than that?) as two years ago the R7 1700 was $329 at launch.

That is the key here. AMD is going to keep pushing the 65w more cores cpu on the cheap. Everything else is icing on the cake.
 

TheELF

Platinum Member
Dec 22, 2012
2,908
277
126
Sorry, I missed that. So a $1400 cpu overclocked to the max just equals what is most likely a $500 cpu. I know the tech is old, but they are still charging for it like its todays tech. Not to mention, no mention of how much juice it was taking to get to 4.8 vs the AMD running at 4.2 equaling it.
Doesn't change the fact that everybody who actually needed a 16/32 CPU capable of getting 3 to 4 thousand points in CB had a two year head start of getting one.
Who are you going to sell one of those now after two years?Only hobbyists that don't actually need it but want it to play around with.
Also the results and clocks are rumors so the amount of juice it took (for the ryzen as well) is besides the point,let the results be confirmed first.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,810
1,403
136
Doesn't change the fact that everybody who actually needed a 16/32 CPU capable of getting 3 to 4 thousand points in CB had a two year head start of getting one.
Who are you going to sell one of those now after two years?Only hobbyists that don't actually need it but want it to play around with.
Also the results and clocks are rumors so the amount of juice it took (for the ryzen as well) is besides the point,let the results be confirmed first.
What a lame argument that sounds like sour grapes. Who needs the performance?
Only 1% gets the fastest options but wait until prices come down. Heck goes for all consumer goods. So the answer to your question is 99%. Lower prices trickle down the entire portfolio so it's not only about 16c. 8c will be the new norm. The consoles will have it. So pretty normal I would say and will make the foundation for future software and especially games.
 

Thunder 57

Senior member
Aug 19, 2007
948
607
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Doesn't change the fact that everybody who actually needed a 16/32 CPU capable of getting 3 to 4 thousand points in CB had a two year head start of getting one.
Who are you going to sell one of those now after two years?Only hobbyists that don't actually need it but want it to play around with.
Also the results and clocks are rumors so the amount of juice it took (for the ryzen as well) is besides the point,let the results be confirmed first.
What a nonsensical argument. Because the needs of people don't change? They will sell like hotcakes because they will offer amazing performance that just two years ago was much more expensive (if the numbers are true). What's wrong, do you not like competition or choice in the market? After all, I thought "gaming was the only demanding thing a person was ever going to do?". Now you are arguing about Cinebench??? Just go away.

At this point you come across as trolling, or at least hateful of AMD for some reason.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
13,473
2,932
136
Anyone know if Ryzen Matisse G CPUs can be overclocked.
I’d really like to overclock the 65 watt 3300G.
As some posters above have opined, that SKU is probably not Matisse. Probably. We don't know for sure, but it definitely looks like 12nm Picasso and 7nm Matisse chips will share the Ryzen 3xxx family name. That's probably a Picasso.

That being said, nearly every AM4 can be overclocked. One poster here even figured out how to overclock the 200GE/220GE/240GE. It was not complicated, all you had to do was use the right board. Since you can OC a 2400G (for example), the 3300G is probably fully-overclockable.

There is no such thing as Matisse G.
I'm inclined to agree with you. Anything 7nm with a GPU in the CPU package from AMD will probably be Renoir next year. I don't see AMD trying to sell something Kaby-G-like on AM4 right now.

Who are you going to sell one of those now after two years?
Me. I thought about getting a 2950X, but the cost of ownership was higher than I wanted to pay, and the heat output from getting the thing to run 4.4 GHz static would have been astounding. Waiting for 16c to come to AM4 results in lower heat output, lower costs, and other goodness like higher IPC and higher clocks. I still may go for an 8c instead and try to cool it with my NH-D14, but I'm really on the fence there. Especially if all the high-bin dice wind up in 12c/16c SKUs.
 

TheELF

Platinum Member
Dec 22, 2012
2,908
277
126
You make it sound like there's only ever one buying opportunity. In reality, there's always new buyers entering the market.
Big business is with big companies and those will only buy cutting edge.
Yes there are still potential buyers, but most of the market (big companies) already have what they need.

What a lame argument that sounds like sour grapes. Who needs the performance?
Only 1% gets the fastest options but wait until prices come down. Heck goes for all consumer goods. So the answer to your question is 99%. Lower prices trickle down the entire portfolio so it's not only about 16c. 8c will be the new norm. The consoles will have it. So pretty normal I would say and will make the foundation for future software and especially games.
Yeah nice rant what does that have to do with anything?
Who said "Who needs the performance? " what I said was that the market that really needs the performance already bought it two years ago.
What a nonsensical argument. Because the needs of people don't change?
The needs of people do change,that's a big part of the problem all the people that already got 3-4000 points in CB two years ago need something better right now and not the same thing.
After all, I thought "gaming was the only demanding thing a person was ever going to do?". Now you are arguing about Cinebench??? Just go away.

At this point you come across as trolling, or at least hateful of AMD for some reason.
Lol OMG please tell me you think this will be a great gaming machine......

Me. I thought about getting a 2950X, but the cost of ownership was higher than I wanted to pay, and the heat output from getting the thing to run 4.4 GHz static would have been astounding. Waiting for 16c to come to AM4 results in lower heat output, lower costs, and other goodness like higher IPC and higher clocks. I still may go for an 8c instead and try to cool it with my NH-D14, but I'm really on the fence there. Especially if all the high-bin dice wind up in 12c/16c SKUs.
And? Do you consider it for your business or as a hobby?
Because if you had a business my guess is that the high price would have payed for itself very quickly.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
18,773
6,110
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Big business is with big companies and those will only buy cutting edge.
Yes there are still potential buyers, but most of the market (big companies) already have what they need.


Yeah nice rant what does that have to do with anything?
Who said "Who needs the performance? " what I said was that the market that really needs the performance already bought it two years ago.

The needs of people do change,that's a big part of the problem all the people that already got 3-4000 points in CB two years ago need something better right now and not the same thing.

Lol OMG please tell me you think this will be a great gaming machine......


And? Do you consider it for your business or as a hobby?
Because if you had a business my guess is that the high price would have payed for itself very quickly.
You should just give it up, just are just burying yourself deeper.
 

Mockingbird

Senior member
Feb 12, 2017
733
737
106
You know, it's gotten quite tiresome always having to watch you so desperately trying to discredit a man, who so clearly explains the background of everything he shares with his audience (if only you even bothered...), and then you turn around and say _he_ has a messiah complex... Well, then I have no idea what your condition should be called, instead I just wish this forum had the option to let me hide your comments.
Sorry for being a little off topic.
With Old Jim, it's impossible to have polite disagreements.

That narcissist would lob you with personal attacks and tell you to commit suicide.



Trolling and thread derailment is not allowed. You need to stop.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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