Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[Leadbox]

Everyone is an expert when it comes to what AMD should or should not do....
But whatever! They simply cannot continue bankrolling you if they are to remain competitive and grow, especially where they offer the superior product.

 

[Glo.]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314555754246856704

Another shoe dropping that suggests it was NOT the best Navi GPU.

 

[DDH]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314555754246856704

Another shoe dropping that suggests it was NOT the best Navi GPU.

Look you really need to stop this else pretty soon the last bastion of defence NVIDIA fanboys have to put their minds at ease that Huang is the GOAT will be dlss

 

[Heartbreaker]

I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD price their 3080 competitor at $699. AMD forgets why people like them, because of their lower prices as-well-as the performance, so when they start pricing like Intel and Nvidia, they become just another brand and that is what hurts them because we know that brand recognition with Intel and Nvidia is much better and Intel will catch up eventually while Nvidia dedicates more R&D dollars to GPUs, so AMD will eventually fall behind again. AMD has hit the spotlight with Zen 2, but their higher pricing of Zen 3 is putting quite a few people off, especially considering it's higher price without a CPU cooler vs lower priced Zen 2 with one. Granted, a lot of people say don't bother with the included CPU cooler, but the reality is that the savings of not providing a CPU cooler should go into the processor price, so basically, it should stay around $399.

It's people on forums that forget, that corporations all follow the same rules chasing the bottom line.

AMD only prices lower when it's marketing department deems that it must lower them to move product.

With Ryzen 3000 all the rumors were that we would get 8 cores for the Price of 6 cores. That didn't happen, and it didn't happen with Ryzen 5000 either.

Not only didn't that happen with Ryzen 5000, by the price/core is increasing, and it isn't because production cost is increasing.

It's because AMD want more profits, just like Intel and Nvidia.

The behavior of the corporation on top never changes, just the name, which is why being a corporate fan is so pointless.

 

[moinmoin]

I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD price their 3080 competitor at $699. AMD forgets why people like them, because of their lower prices as-well-as the performance, so when they start pricing like Intel and Nvidia, they become just another brand and that is what hurts them because we know that brand recognition with Intel and Nvidia is much better and Intel will catch up eventually while Nvidia dedicates more R&D dollars to GPUs, so AMD will eventually fall behind again. AMD has hit the spotlight with Zen 2, but their higher pricing of Zen 3 is putting quite a few people off, especially considering it's higher price without a CPU cooler vs lower priced Zen 2 with one. Granted, a lot of people say don't bother with the included CPU cooler, but the reality is that the savings of not providing a CPU cooler should go into the processor price, so basically, it should stay around $399.

In a way you describe pretty well what's AMD's current conundrum: It doesn't have the brand power that Intel and Nvidia have. It's known for lower prices as-well-as the performance. But lower prices as-well-as the performance is not what built Intel's and Nvidia's brand power. So what does an AMD that wants to achieve the same brand power do?

 

[Konan]

A 5700 XT beats a 2080 in Borderlands 3 in badass quality DX12 but the outcome is vastly different in DX11. That is a pure bias cherry picked game to put up as such. (Fair enough NV does this too)
Opinion: I suspect a large game average on equal testing systems will show ~10-15% less in DX11 than a 3080 for this particular Big Navi and there is a good chance now it was a cut down one. This result will be even more decreasing with RT on.....

 

[linkgoron]

I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD price their 3080 competitor at $699. AMD forgets why people like them, because of their lower prices as-well-as the performance, so when they start pricing like Intel and Nvidia, they become just another brand and that is what hurts them because we know that brand recognition with Intel and Nvidia is much better and Intel will catch up eventually while Nvidia dedicates more R&D dollars to GPUs, so AMD will eventually fall behind again. AMD has hit the spotlight with Zen 2, but their higher pricing of Zen 3 is putting quite a few people off, especially considering it's higher price without a CPU cooler vs lower priced Zen 2 with one. Granted, a lot of people say don't bother with the included CPU cooler, but the reality is that the savings of not providing a CPU cooler should go into the processor price, so basically, it should stay around $399.

If AMD has a 3080 competitor with 16GB of RAM and better perf/watt, it would sell out even for $699. Obviously, I would prefer if AMD would undercut Nvidia, like they did with the 5700/XT. However, Ampere has given AMD an opening. The 3080 feels like a compromise, it has a relatively high power usage and it only has 10GB of RAM (which is a down-grade from previous generations). There's a reason why Nvidia marketing and shills are all over-hyping DLSS and RTX.

 

[DeathReborn]

AMD Big Navi Performance Claims Compared to TPU's Own Benchmark Numbers of Comparable GPUs

AMD in its October 8 online launch event for the Ryzen 5000 "Zen 3" processors, provided a teaser of the company's next flagship graphics card slotted in the Radeon RX 6000 series. This particular SKU has been referred to by company CEO Lisa Su as "Big Navi," meaning it could be the top part...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Krteq]

Similar "comparison" from Hexus

Please take the graph as totally illustrative rather than scientific. Doing it this way provides better context into probable performance.

Hexus.net - AMD outs Radeon RX 6000 performance - same as RTX 3080?

 

[Konan]

AMD Big Navi Performance Claims Compared to TPU's Own Benchmark Numbers of Comparable GPUs

AMD in its October 8 online launch event for the Ryzen 5000 "Zen 3" processors, provided a teaser of the company's next flagship graphics card slotted in the Radeon RX 6000 series. This particular SKU has been referred to by company CEO Lisa Su as "Big Navi," meaning it could be the top part...

www.techpowerup.com

From this article - lots of considerations mentioned but that does put it at @Glo. proposed N22 level

Navi 22 - 10-20% above RTX 2080 Ti performance levels @225 TBP.

Hopefully it is and there is more to come "upwards"

 

[Guru]

Come on, fake twitter posts that it wasn't big navi, that it was some low level cards, etc... It was big navi, it is the best card they've got and it obviously comes very close to the RTX 3080, but can't quite beat it.

I feel like they don't really need to beat the 3080, just be very close to it, have 16GB of vram, have lower power consumption and undercut it by $50 dollars. 5% slower card, but that has way more vram, consumes less power and is cheaper is a very good option. Considering AMD's die size is smaller than Nvidia's, they are going to make more profit than Nvidia per gpu sold.

And again remember how good the RX 5000 perform in certain DX12 titles, the RX 5700xt even catches the RTX 2080 in some games, its that good and we see that more console ports are better optimized for AMD's architecture, so expect to have at least couple dozen games that have the RX 6800xt perform faster than the RTX 3080.

 

[uzzi38]

A 5700 XT beats a 2080 in Borderlands 3 in badass quality DX12 but the outcome is vastly different in DX11. That is a pure bias cherry picked game to put up as such. (Fair enough NV does this too)
Opinion: I suspect a large game average on equal testing systems will show ~10-15% less in DX11 than a 3080 for this particular Big Navi and there is a good chance now it was a cut down one. This result will be even more decreasing with RT on.....

I already addressed this.

EDIT:

Come on, fake twitter posts that it wasn't big navi, that it was some low level cards, etc... It was big navi, it is the best card they've got and it obviously comes very close to the RTX 3080, but can't quite beat it.

I feel like they don't really need to beat the 3080, just be very close to it, have 16GB of vram, have lower power consumption and undercut it by $50 dollars. 5% slower card, but that has way more vram, consumes less power and is cheaper is a very good option. Considering AMD's die size is smaller than Nvidia's, they are going to make more profit than Nvidia per gpu sold.

And again remember how good the RX 5000 perform in certain DX12 titles, the RX 5700xt even catches the RTX 2080 in some games, its that good and we see that more console ports are better optimized for AMD's architecture, so expect to have at least couple dozen games that have the RX 6800xt perform faster than the RTX 3080.

You too.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Come on, fake twitter posts that it wasn't big navi, that it was some low level cards, etc... It was big navi, it is the best card they've got and it obviously comes very close to the RTX 3080, but can't quite beat it.

Big Navi is Navi21, but that doesn't mean only one card will come out of It, so It could be a cutdown or a full version. From GA102 you also have RTX3080 and RTX3090 and even RTX3090 is still not a full version.

 

[Mopetar]

AMD still has a tarnished reputation with GPUs that makes it seem as though they need to undercut NVidia in order to be on equal footing.

The hype traIn will always overshoot the station, but we should pause and take stock of the situation with what we definitely know right now, and that's AMD having a card that can compete with NVidia's 102 die.

Sure it's been labeled a 3080, but historically those have been 104 die parts in the last few generations. Historically speaking, we have a case where AMD is Competing against what would be branded a Ti and Titan card. When's the last time that AMD managed that?

Maybe the story gets even better, but this is at a minimum AMD's Zen moment for their GPUs where they've shown that they can hang with the best of them instead of occupying only the low end of the market or other odd niches they've carved out.

Even if you're just an NVidia loyalist that has no intention of buying an AMD card, you have to respect that because AMD can compete, NVidia can't just charge you $1,200 for their 102 die parts anymore.

 

[zinfamous]

I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD price their 3080 competitor at $699. AMD forgets why people like them, because of their lower prices as-well-as the performance, so when they start pricing like Intel and Nvidia, they become just another brand and that is what hurts them because we know that brand recognition with Intel and Nvidia is much better and Intel will catch up eventually while Nvidia dedicates more R&D dollars to GPUs, so AMD will eventually fall behind again. AMD has hit the spotlight with Zen 2, but their higher pricing of Zen 3 is putting quite a few people off, especially considering it's higher price without a CPU cooler vs lower priced Zen 2 with one. Granted, a lot of people say don't bother with the included CPU cooler, but the reality is that the savings of not providing a CPU cooler should go into the processor price, so basically, it should stay around $399.

That's quite possibly their target price for such a card, if it exists as shown yesterday, but again as with Zen 3 pricing, I think we will see that the release MSRP for all of these products are more targeted at the Industry as it is now, and predicted supply constraints likely to dominate the sector in 2021.

Two options:
--AMD releases product at their "historical expectation" of 10-20% less or so than competitor, supply bottleneck terrorizes demand, retail sector grabs 30-60% profit above AMD
--AMD prices their products to "attempt" control of demand, claims that profit (or majority of) for themselves.

Either situation, consumers are going to pay that price. AMD fans or hardware enthusiasts should really only ask themselves where they would prefer to send the majority of that money: to AMD or [Jeff Bezos]?

 

[zinfamous]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314555754246856704

Another shoe dropping that suggests it was NOT the best Navi GPU.

what am I missing here, other than "random twitter people" agree that they believe in what they believe...based off of some other random twitter person "confirming" something based on a photo that everyone already has access to, and already doesn't tell anyone anything?

Honestly, what am I actually missing here? lol

 

[Glo.]

From this article - lots of considerations mentioned but that does put it at @Glo. proposed N22 level

Hopefully it is and there is more to come "upwards"

View attachment 31464

Maybe people missed my post, but I later specified, in response to your question, about what was told to me, and that I only titled the dies based on what I knew at the time.

The performance targets still stay the same: 40 CU SKU should be 10-15% above RTX 2080 Super, 60 CU SKU should be 10-20% above RTX 2080 Ti, 80 CU should be 40-50% above RTX 2080 Ti.

 

[Elfear]

what am I missing here, other than "random twitter people" agree that they believe in what they believe...based off of some other random twitter person "confirming" something based on a photo that everyone already has access to, and already doesn't tell anyone anything?

Honestly, what am I actually missing here? lol

I'm wondering the same thing. Has "HXL" been a super solid leaker in the past or something? Do they work for AMD?

 

[raghu78]

Nvidia already has a 3080 Ti coming up. So we already know 3 SKUs are based on the GA102 die. Its not uncommon to see 3 or even 4 SKUs on massive > 500 sq mm dies. I would say there are atleast 3 SKUs based on N21. RX 6800XT, RX 6900, RX 6900XT. My opinion is that AMD did not reveal their flagship GPU perf 3 weeks before launch because it defeats the purpose of a Oct 28th launch for RDNA2. You don't give the competition too much info before launch day. AMD teases a RX 6800XT most likely imo. Given the higher perf/clock, significantly higher clocks, improved caches and doubling of CU/WGP/SE/SA/ROPs and RDNA/RDNA2 being designed to improve AMD's GPU perf scalability I am expecting RX 6900XT matches or beats RTX 3090 in rasterization perf and is slower in ray tracing against Ampere. What remains to be seen is does AMD have a DLSS compete.

 

[Kenmitch]

After reading thru multiple arguments I've come to the conclusion that it's best to wait for the official announcement.

Was it Big Navi, Bigger Navi, Biggest Navi? Clarification on the 28th is needed before one can pass final judgement. Either way it's going to be a long 19 days or so depending on ones time zone!

 

[DDH]

Nvidia already has a 3080 Ti coming up. So we already know 3 SKUs are based on the GA102 die. Its not uncommon to see 3 or even 4 SKUs on massive > 500 sq mm dies. I would say there are atleast 3 SKUs based on N21. RX 6800XT, RX 6900, RX 6900XT. My opinion is that AMD did not reveal their flagship GPU perf 3 weeks before launch because it defeats the purpose of a Oct 28th launch for RDNA2. You don't give the competition too much info before launch day. AMD teases a RX 6800XT most likely imo. Given the higher perf/clock, significantly higher clocks, improved caches and doubling of CU/WGP/SE/SA/ROPs and RDNA/RDNA2 being designed to improve AMD's GPU perf scalability I am expecting RX 6900XT matches or beats RTX 3090 in rasterization perf and is slower in ray tracing against Ampere. What remains to be seen is does AMD have a DLSS compete.

Where have they said anything about a 3080ti?

The truth of the matter is the 3090 is the 3080ti in everything but name. By naming it the 3090 no one complained about the ridiculous price hike

 

[GaiaHunter]

AMD didn't have to say anything since they had already announced the 28 event.

I think it is clear AMD's objective was to state they have a 4K card capable of 60+ FPS and that they are playing on the same pool as NVIDIA and not only on the kiddies pool.

 

[Glo.]

Paul's sources suggesting that its 6800XT that is going to compete with RTX 3080.

 

[Kuiva maa]

Paul's sources suggesting that its 6800XT that is going to compete with RTX 3080.

I was very sceptical of all that, and assumed that what they showed was 80CU part. But let's call a spade a spade-Paul's sources are AMD themselves, what he received was controlled leaks whether he knows about it or not. There is no way in hell someone that is not an insider would know what he leaked. So if he says this was not the fastest part, I believe it.

 

[eek2121]

Maybe people missed my post, but I later specified, in response to your question, about what was told to me, and that I only titled the dies based on what I knew at the time.

The performance targets still stay the same: 40 CU SKU should be 10-15% above RTX 2080 Super, 60 CU SKU should be 10-20% above RTX 2080 Ti, 80 CU should be 40-50% above RTX 2080 Ti.

The 40CU part has a 400-600Mhz higher clock speed over the 5700XT. It will be closer to 30% faster, which interestingly enough places it close to where this card performs. Each die will likely have 3 different skus, with the biggest and best card being nearly 3X as fast as a 5700XT.