some thoughts (blame NFS)

[lsd]

<< Well as I said, I didn't run those numbers.. and also, as I said, maximum detail. High quality is lower than that... >>


Sorry but I find it hard to belive that going to high quality is enough to bring a 50% drop in performance.


<< and your V4 numbers aren't using the driver optimizations either >>


That number is actually higher than your number.
Go get some sleep

 

[DaveB3D]

Good idea... I looked at our internal numbers, both are low off of those too.. strange...

 

[NFS4]

<< That number is actually higher than your number. >>


LOL, I was thinking the exact same thing

 

[DominoBoy]

Dave, don't mind people like LSD. He will agree with you and pretend to be helpful, but when you disagree with him, he will start calling you names. He even started saying that other people in other threads were really &quot;me&quot; only because they also disagreed with his low life tactics. That was the most desperate flame attempt I have ever seen, and the poor guys he accused probably have no idea or they would have responded.

For the record LSD, unlike you I don't have to change my names to speak my mind. I know you do it all the time because you don't have the balls to back up anything you say, so you go change your nick like a coward. Just because you do it doesn't mean everyone else does it.

I understand though LSD, and I don't blame you. Your parents were obviously miserable failures. Those private visits your dad made to your room late at night (you know the ones I mean) have affected the way you act. That's why you called me names over and over when I all I said was that you were a Nvidia fanboy (which you are ).

I forgive you though. My parents always taught me not to be mean to the slower or retarded kids in school. Listen LSD, just because you ride on that &quot;special&quot; little bus, and go to the &quot;special&quot; classes doesn't mean you can't still do something with your life. If you work hard and really apply yourself, maybe you can get a job at McDonalds operating one of those big cash registers. They are kinda like computers. They have big buttons and lights and everything. They are neat.

 

[SoloJoe]

OUCH.

 

[lsd]

LOL
Why didn't you post that stuff in the other thread?
May god help you...
LOL
Dude your an idiot for sure.

 

[NOX]

Dave,

I think it's only fair you pay for advertisement like the rest of the advertisers on Anands. So here's the link, Advertise on Anands.

 

[Oyeve]

phshaw! My Neomagic 2.5 meg pci laptop blows all of them away!

 

[Pete]

Someone turned on the funny in this thread .

 

[miniMUNCH]

I can say one thing...

Ben and BFX3 R2D2 (whatever his name is) do not know what &quot;aliased&quot; means.

You guys both said that uping the resolution reduces aliasing...NOT! It reduces the distortion due to aliasing or as Ben later defined: noticable aliasing.

Just my two cents...

Hey, I was just wondering: DaveB3D works for 3dfx? So what do DaveB3D, Ben, RoboTech, and BFD3 R2D2 (sorry, but I'm not scrolling down to find your name) do for a living?

I test process equipment so I'm clueless as to who or what to believe on this particular subject?

 

[DaveB3D]

yeah, I work in engineering at 3dfx.

 

[BenSkywalker]

&quot;Ben and BFX3 R2D2 (whatever his name is) do not know what &quot;aliased&quot; means.&quot;

I was dealing with aliasing and anti aliasing before the Voodoo 1 came out. In terms of the visual impact of the technique and what sort of visual flaws aliasing is and how to eliminate them, I can assure you I know what I am talking about.

I have been working with 3D modeling/visualization for several years now. Noticeable aliasing is the only kind that matters.

 

[Soccerman]

lol.. hey Benskywalker.. this is a bit off topic, but can you tell me all that you know about Tile based rendering, including all the techniques it includes that improve fillrate/bandwidth efficiency?

for example, list all of the technical names for these techniques, and then explain them as best you can?

I'm curious, and I'm asking YOU, becuase DaveB3D probably won't be able to add anything into this discussion, and from what I know, you shouldn't have an NDA on this thing (though you might, I have to try!).

 

[bauerbrazil]

<< Ok Ben, I hope you don't seriously believe that increasing polygon counts reduces aliasing. That is soooo not true at all. No matter how many polygons you have, you still have edges and you still have aliasing. >>



Dave, you know a circumference is a polygon with infinite sides, dont you???

 

[DaveB3D]

I can explain tiling (deferred rendering).. just can't talk about Gigapixel.


Actually, I already did on this board.. do a search.

A real quick explaination:

Your scene geometry comes up, you sort in and stick it in bins (or buckets). From there, you pull the geometry out of each bin on a per-tile basis. You stick this in a small cache on the chip called a tile buffer. From there you determine what surfaces are visibile (PowerVR uses raycasting.. basically you shoot a bunch of rays out and if the ray goes through a pixel the pixel is visible). From there, you proceed to do your texturing, anti-aliasing and whatever else. Then you output it and you are done. Do that for every tile and you are done.

 

[RoboTECH]

Sudheer:

&quot; Date Posted: Dec/07/2000 2:10 AM

I know, what kind of idiot benchmarks with the 7.17 detonators. Everyone knows they suck and that they offer crappy performance and that they are betas. Robo's just trying to stack the deck against nvidia. Please if your going to benchmark cards at least do it fairly. &quot;

WTF are you talking about? I've never used the 7.17 or ANY version of 7xx. ??????? You got me mixed up bubilah....

miniMUNCH:

&quot;I was just wondering: DaveB3D works for 3dfx? So what do DaveB3D, Ben, RoboTech, and BFD3 R2D2 (sorry, but I'm not scrolling down to find your name) do for a living?&quot;

U.S. Army Sergeant.

 

[BFG10K]

Dave:

1600x1200x32 High Quality
MX 7.17 - 12.6
V4 latest - 13.4

Come on Dave, what have you proven?

At that resolution both cards are memory bandwidth limited. You turned on a tweak which potentially introduces artifacts on the V4, and as a result you get less than 1 FPS gain at any already unplayable resolution.

Are you seriously suggesting somebody should accept a V4 is faster than the MX because of these results, and totally disregard the 30 FPS spanking the MX gives the V4 in UT, Q3 and MDK2?

Well if I play at 1024x768 with 16-bit I can hit 100 fps.

Well when I switch the MX to 16 bit it can hit 150 FPS. So what? Unless you think only the Voodoo can do 16 bit? Like I said before, assuming an infinite memory bandwidth the MX will spank a V4, even without T&amp;L.

MiniMUNCH:

Ben and BFX3 R2D2 (whatever his name is) do not know what &quot;aliased&quot; means.

Jaggies.

You guys both said that uping the resolution reduces aliasing...NOT!

Of course it reduces aliasing. WTF are you on about? Run Quake 3 at 640 x 480. Then run it at 1024 x 768. Are there less jaggies or not? If you think not, you need to sober up.

If the resolution was high enough so that the pixel size was smaller than the human eye could see, there would be absolutely no alisaing anywhere, no matter what angle the line was drawn at.

BFD3 R2D2 (sorry, but I'm not scrolling down to find your name) do for a living?

What difference does that make? If you're implying that somebody has to hold a certian type of job to know certain stuff you're wrong.

 

[RoboTECH]

BFG, just tell him you work for me.

If he has a problem with that, he can come talk to me about it

 

[BenSkywalker]

&quot;but can you tell me all that you know about Tile based rendering, including all the techniques it includes that improve fillrate/bandwidth efficiency?

for example, list all of the technical names for these techniques, and then explain them as best you can?&quot;

This topic is worthy of a thread of its' own, but not just the technology involved. In terms of exactly how things are done, pretty much the only thing that I could do is explain how PowerVR does things, but I have a very strong feeling that the Gigapixel technology will be very different for several reasons, one of the more important IMHO is the fact that current tilers(or defered renderers, whatever term you want to use) don't deal well with large amounts of geometry.

I'll start up another thread on why I'm not convinced that going the Gigapixel way will be the hands down best way to deal with things.

 

[RoboTECH]

Dave, please check your private messages (look in upper left hand side)

if you don't have them enabled, please do so in your profile section. Thanks.

 

[DaveB3D]

You can learn a lot from looking at a 16x12x32 score, which is why I posted it.. the same goes true though for the lower &quot;upper&quot; resolutions.

 

[BFG10K]

Dave:

You can learn a lot from looking at a 16x12x32 score, which is why I posted it..

Which is what exactly? Help me out here. I am totally confused as to what you are getting at.

RoboTECH:

BFG, just tell him you work for me.

But then I'd have to call you &quot;Sarge&quot;!

 

[RoboTECH]

that's right soldier! you would!

 

[DaveB3D]

Well by understanding fill-rate and memory bandwidth limitations you can understand what exactly is happening at lower resolutions based on the results that are achived. Meaning you can understand what is happening where and why it is happening.