Some Bar Owners Defy Colorado Smoking Ban

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Really? So business owners don't own their property?

Wow...

People who think like you scare the hell out of me. You really do.

I said it's different, I didn't say they don't own the property. I don't allow people to just walk into my house whenever they please. Do you?

You can't just walk into a bar whenever you please either. They want your business, which is why they let you in, but they reserve the right to refuse service and/or to even kick you out should you wear out your welcome. It's clearly private property.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Really? So business owners don't own their property?

Wow...

People who think like you scare the hell out of me. You really do.

I said it's different, I didn't say they don't own the property. I don't allow people to just walk into my house whenever they please. Do you?

Neither do business owners. You have no "right" to enter a business. You are there by the invite of the business owner who can ask you to leave at any time, and limit your actions while on their property.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

This isn't about smokers. This is about bar owners.

And the majority in most bars are smokers.

No, it's pretty much about smokers. Why would a bar owner give a fvck about this (unless he's a smoker of course)? If smoking is banned in all bars how does this hurt a bar owner? It doesn't make people want to go to other bars because smoking is banned in all drinking establishments.

Are you stupid? Smoking banned in bars = people don't go to bars anymore, since they can't smoke and drink, so they stay home and drink and smoke. I bet liquor store owners love this ban.

Take your whiny, greenpeace, tree hugger "wah, i wanna breathe clean air!" BS elsewhere.

PS: I don't smoke.

Gee, I wonder how many bars would have closed up in the same time frame if the smoking ban hadn't been enacted. 22 perhaps?

Take your rush limbaugh listening, nascar watching, redneck "whaaaa, it's my right to do whatever the fvck i want no matter who it hurts or what the majority think!" BS elsewhere.

PS: I don't smoke either.

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: Vic
I applaud their civil disobedience and wish them luck.

It's not the smokers who are the whiners, it's a small minority of self-righteous non-smokers. You don't like smoking in bars, then don't fscking go to smoky bars! I'm a non-smoker, and that's exactly what I do. And what a shocker, bars are becoming non-smoking all by themselves everywhere you go! They want the non-smoker business just as much as they smoker business.

These laws pass democratic elections BTW because the overwhelming majority of the electorate never even goes to a bar -- young people don't vote. Grandma OTOH never misses an election.

I love how legislation to ban smoking suddenly becomes self righteous. There wouldn't be these laws if the majority of smokers actually gave 2 shits who is around them when they light up. They just assume you will deal with it or leave....even if you were there first. It's like one of those belligerent drunk douchebags who just sits down next to you and won't stfu about ufos.

 

[Molondo]

I finally don't smell like smoke when i come home from a bar. Feels great.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic
I applaud their civil disobedience and wish them luck.

It's not the smokers who are the whiners, it's a small minority of self-righteous non-smokers. You don't like smoking in bars, then don't fscking go to smoky bars! I'm a non-smoker, and that's exactly what I do. And what a shocker, bars are becoming non-smoking all by themselves everywhere you go! They want the non-smoker business just as much as they smoker business.

These laws pass democratic elections BTW because the overwhelming majority of the electorate never even goes to a bar -- young people don't vote. Grandma OTOH never misses an election.

I love how legislation to ban smoking suddenly becomes self righteous. There wouldn't be these laws if the majority of smokers actually gave 2 shits who is around them when they light up. They just assume you will deal with it or leave....even if you were there first. It's like one of those belligerent drunk douchebags who just sits down next to you and won't stfu about ufos.

The in-your-face self-righteousness in this post in quite ironic.

Of course legislation to ban smoking is self righteous. Who the hell are you to tell other people what to do with themselves? And to use the force of law to do so? The only way you could possibly justify such actions is by believing that your sh!t don't stink.

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: Molondo
I finally don't smell like smoke when i come home from a bar. Feels great.

Been this way for a little while in WA, it is nice for nonsmokers. It also seems that the smokers have dealt with it just fine. It did take time for some of my friends though .

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Molondo
I finally don't smell like smoke when i come home from a bar. Feels great.

Whew... about time you could abuse ethanol in peace without having to be reminded of other peoples' vices, eh?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Really? So business owners don't own their property?

Wow...

People who think like you scare the hell out of me. You really do.

I said it's different, I didn't say they don't own the property. I don't allow people to just walk into my house whenever they please. Do you?

You can't just walk into a bar whenever you please either. They want your business, which is why they let you in, but they reserve the right to refuse service and/or to even kick you out should you wear out your welcome. It's clearly private property.

When is the last time you got kicked out of a bar? It's NEVER happened to me and I've been in plenty of bars. How many times have you just walked into a house you've never been to before where you didn't know anyone who lived there?

A bar is a business that allows the public free access to it during business hours. Is it legally private property? Yes. Is it the same as a personal home? No fvcking way. Walk up to my door and ring the bell. If I recognize you I'll open the door, if not, I'll ignore the bell and hope you go away. If you don't go away I have a few loaded guns that might persuade you to leave. Pretty much anyone can walk into a bar anytime during business hours. It's not the same.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: buck
Been this way for a little while in WA, it is nice for nonsmokers. It also seems that the smokers have dealt with it just fine. It did take time for some of my friends though .

That's because WA state bar owners have been staging their own little bit of civil disobedience and the state has been quietly turning a blind eye. The law said that no one can smoke within 25 feet of any door or window, remember? So why are there all those tents for the smokers right in front of the doors?

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Molondo
I finally don't smell like smoke when i come home from a bar. Feels great.

Whew... about time you could abuse ethanol in peace without having to be reminded of other peoples' vices, eh?

On another note, isn't this being voted on in your state?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Really? So business owners don't own their property?

Wow...

People who think like you scare the hell out of me. You really do.

I said it's different, I didn't say they don't own the property. I don't allow people to just walk into my house whenever they please. Do you?

You can't just walk into a bar whenever you please either. They want your business, which is why they let you in, but they reserve the right to refuse service and/or to even kick you out should you wear out your welcome. It's clearly private property.

When is the last time you got kicked out of a bar? It's NEVER happened to me and I've been in plenty of bars. How many times have you just walked into a house you've never been to before where you didn't know anyone who lived there?

A bar is a business that allows the public free access to it during business hours. Is it legally private property? Yes. Is it the same as a personal home? No fvcking way. Walk up to my door and ring the bell. If I recognize you I'll open the door, if not, I'll ignore the bell and hope you go away. If you don't go away I have a few loaded guns that might persuade you to leave. Pretty much anyone can walk into a bar anytime during business hours. It's not the same.

People get kicked out of bars all the time. Maybe not your rose petal ass but you know it happens. The usual polite way is for the bar to refuse to serve them any more.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Molondo
I finally don't smell like smoke when i come home from a bar. Feels great.

Whew... about time you could abuse ethanol in peace without having to be reminded of other peoples' vices, eh?

On another note, isn't this being voted on in your state?

Nope. It's being talked about in the legislature but probably won't happen. The Oregon Restaurant Association is too powerful. And why should it happen? Non-smoking bars are everywhere.

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: buck
Been this way for a little while in WA, it is nice for nonsmokers. It also seems that the smokers have dealt with it just fine. It did take time for some of my friends though .

That's because WA state bar owners have been staging their own little bit of civil disobedience and the state has been quietly turning a blind eye. The law said that no one can smoke within 25 feet of any door or window, remember? So why are there all those tents for the smokers right in front of the doors?

I don't agree with the way it happened but i'd be lying if I said I don't like not sitting in a cloud. Hell, it gets cold when i have to stand outside with my buddies....

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic
I applaud their civil disobedience and wish them luck.

It's not the smokers who are the whiners, it's a small minority of self-righteous non-smokers. You don't like smoking in bars, then don't fscking go to smoky bars! I'm a non-smoker, and that's exactly what I do. And what a shocker, bars are becoming non-smoking all by themselves everywhere you go! They want the non-smoker business just as much as they smoker business.

These laws pass democratic elections BTW because the overwhelming majority of the electorate never even goes to a bar -- young people don't vote. Grandma OTOH never misses an election.

I love how legislation to ban smoking suddenly becomes self righteous. There wouldn't be these laws if the majority of smokers actually gave 2 shits who is around them when they light up. They just assume you will deal with it or leave....even if you were there first. It's like one of those belligerent drunk douchebags who just sits down next to you and won't stfu about ufos.

The in-your-face self-righteousness in this post in quite ironic.

Of course legislation to ban smoking is self righteous. Who the hell are you to tell other people what to do with themselves? And to use the force of law to do so? The only way you could possibly justify such actions is by believing that your sh!t don't stink.

Who the hell are smokers to inflect health hazards on others? Of course my sh!t stinks. That is why I just don't walk up to a group of people and take a sh!t. When people won't do the right thing, sometimes you have to make them. So are bathrooms self righteous? How dare we tell people where to take a crap or piss.

 

[jpeyton]

Arrest the bar owners and/or the customers who violated the law.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic
I applaud their civil disobedience and wish them luck.

It's not the smokers who are the whiners, it's a small minority of self-righteous non-smokers. You don't like smoking in bars, then don't fscking go to smoky bars! I'm a non-smoker, and that's exactly what I do. And what a shocker, bars are becoming non-smoking all by themselves everywhere you go! They want the non-smoker business just as much as they smoker business.

These laws pass democratic elections BTW because the overwhelming majority of the electorate never even goes to a bar -- young people don't vote. Grandma OTOH never misses an election.

I love how legislation to ban smoking suddenly becomes self righteous. There wouldn't be these laws if the majority of smokers actually gave 2 shits who is around them when they light up. They just assume you will deal with it or leave....even if you were there first. It's like one of those belligerent drunk douchebags who just sits down next to you and won't stfu about ufos.

The in-your-face self-righteousness in this post in quite ironic.

Of course legislation to ban smoking is self righteous. Who the hell are you to tell other people what to do with themselves? And to use the force of law to do so? The only way you could possibly justify such actions is by believing that your sh!t don't stink.

Who the hell are smokers to inflect health hazards on others? Of course my sh!t stinks. That is why I just don't walk up to a group of people and take a sh!t. When people won't do the right thing, sometimes you have to make them. So are bathrooms self righteous? How dare we tell people where to take a crap or piss.

If 2nd hand smoke is such a health hazard, then why aren't you addicted? Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs on earth, far more so even than heroin, especially from the first dose (IIRC some 90% of all people who try smoking just once become addicted).

If the health hazard is so serious, then why does it take smokers decades and decades of heavy smoking in order to die? (and don't feed me this 2nd hand smoke is more dangerous than first hand BS -- smokers literally bask in their own 2nd hand smoke).

Is the issue here maybe that you're just brainwashed into blind fear? Ah... fascism... :roll:

 

[Molondo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Molondo
I finally don't smell like smoke when i come home from a bar. Feels great.

Whew... about time you could abuse ethanol in peace without having to be reminded of other peoples' vices, eh?

I should have figured you would be here with the crusades. Keep it coming sunshine, you are obviously getting worked up. Going to bed, Good night.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Molondo

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Molondo
I finally don't smell like smoke when i come home from a bar. Feels great.

Whew... about time you could abuse ethanol in peace without having to be reminded of other peoples' vices, eh?

I should have figured you would be here with the crusades. Keep it coming sunshine, you are obviously getting worked up. Going to bed, Good night.

Actually this is calm for me. Contrary to popular belief, I don't get worked up, I get you worked up. People like to think they're oh-so-self righteous as they condemn others for their vices, as though they have no vices of their own... and they don't like what I do, which is shove their face in their own hypocrisy.

Thanks for avoiding my question BTW.

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic
I applaud their civil disobedience and wish them luck.

It's not the smokers who are the whiners, it's a small minority of self-righteous non-smokers. You don't like smoking in bars, then don't fscking go to smoky bars! I'm a non-smoker, and that's exactly what I do. And what a shocker, bars are becoming non-smoking all by themselves everywhere you go! They want the non-smoker business just as much as they smoker business.

These laws pass democratic elections BTW because the overwhelming majority of the electorate never even goes to a bar -- young people don't vote. Grandma OTOH never misses an election.

I love how legislation to ban smoking suddenly becomes self righteous. There wouldn't be these laws if the majority of smokers actually gave 2 shits who is around them when they light up. They just assume you will deal with it or leave....even if you were there first. It's like one of those belligerent drunk douchebags who just sits down next to you and won't stfu about ufos.

The in-your-face self-righteousness in this post in quite ironic.

Of course legislation to ban smoking is self righteous. Who the hell are you to tell other people what to do with themselves? And to use the force of law to do so? The only way you could possibly justify such actions is by believing that your sh!t don't stink.

Who the hell are smokers to inflect health hazards on others? Of course my sh!t stinks. That is why I just don't walk up to a group of people and take a sh!t. When people won't do the right thing, sometimes you have to make them. So are bathrooms self righteous? How dare we tell people where to take a crap or piss.

If 2nd hand smoke is such a health hazard, then why aren't you addicted? Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs on earth, far more so even than heroin, especially from first dose (some 90% of all people who try smoking just once become addicted).

If the health hazard is so serious, then why does it take smokers decades and decades of heavy smoking in order to die?

Is this issue here maybe that you're just brainwashed into blind fear? Ah... fascism... :roll:

So if it doesn't kill me tomorrow, then I shouldn't care? Oh, I get your point...2nd hand smoke won't have an affect on me for several decades...so I shouldn't care. There are different levels of health hazards. Even if they came out with proof that no matter what, 2nd hand smoke will never kill you, I still would be in favor of smoking bans. I don't want any health issues imposed on me. If that is your thing, then smoke. I don't care. I just wish smokers would stop being selfish pricks and impose those carefree thoughts on the rest of the public.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic
I applaud their civil disobedience and wish them luck.

It's not the smokers who are the whiners, it's a small minority of self-righteous non-smokers. You don't like smoking in bars, then don't fscking go to smoky bars! I'm a non-smoker, and that's exactly what I do. And what a shocker, bars are becoming non-smoking all by themselves everywhere you go! They want the non-smoker business just as much as they smoker business.

These laws pass democratic elections BTW because the overwhelming majority of the electorate never even goes to a bar -- young people don't vote. Grandma OTOH never misses an election.

I love how legislation to ban smoking suddenly becomes self righteous. There wouldn't be these laws if the majority of smokers actually gave 2 shits who is around them when they light up. They just assume you will deal with it or leave....even if you were there first. It's like one of those belligerent drunk douchebags who just sits down next to you and won't stfu about ufos.

The in-your-face self-righteousness in this post in quite ironic.

Of course legislation to ban smoking is self righteous. Who the hell are you to tell other people what to do with themselves? And to use the force of law to do so? The only way you could possibly justify such actions is by believing that your sh!t don't stink.

Who the hell are smokers to inflect health hazards on others? Of course my sh!t stinks. That is why I just don't walk up to a group of people and take a sh!t. When people won't do the right thing, sometimes you have to make them. So are bathrooms self righteous? How dare we tell people where to take a crap or piss.

If 2nd hand smoke is such a health hazard, then why aren't you addicted? Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs on earth, far more so even than heroin, especially from first dose (some 90% of all people who try smoking just once become addicted).

If the health hazard is so serious, then why does it take smokers decades and decades of heavy smoking in order to die?

Is this issue here maybe that you're just brainwashed into blind fear? Ah... fascism... :roll:

So if it doesn't kill me tomorrow, then I shouldn't care? Oh, I get your point...2nd hand smoke won't have an affect on me for several decades...so I shouldn't care. There are different levels of health hazards. Even if they came out with proof that no matter what, 2nd hand smoke will never kill you, I still would be in favor of smoking bans. I don't want any health issues imposed on me. If that is your thing, then smoke. I don't care. I just wish smokers would stop being selfish pricks and impose those carefree thoughts on the rest of the public.

Trying actually reading my posts before you respond to them. Especially if you quote them FFS.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Really? So business owners don't own their property?

Wow...

People who think like you scare the hell out of me. You really do.

I said it's different, I didn't say they don't own the property. I don't allow people to just walk into my house whenever they please. Do you?

You can't just walk into a bar whenever you please either. They want your business, which is why they let you in, but they reserve the right to refuse service and/or to even kick you out should you wear out your welcome. It's clearly private property.

When is the last time you got kicked out of a bar? It's NEVER happened to me and I've been in plenty of bars. How many times have you just walked into a house you've never been to before where you didn't know anyone who lived there?

A bar is a business that allows the public free access to it during business hours. Is it legally private property? Yes. Is it the same as a personal home? No fvcking way. Walk up to my door and ring the bell. If I recognize you I'll open the door, if not, I'll ignore the bell and hope you go away. If you don't go away I have a few loaded guns that might persuade you to leave. Pretty much anyone can walk into a bar anytime during business hours. It's not the same.

Actually, a friend of mine owns a bar and I help him out on the weekends by running security. I kick people out of bars all the time. The funniest ones are self righteous little pricks who feel entitled to be there, and even go so far as to call the cops on us... usually getting themselves arrested. :laugh:

I've also asked many people to leave my own businesses (sandwich shops).

A business can choose who it does business with within the civil rights laws. That means if I don't like you for any reason NOT related to race, religion, sex or national origin, I can tell you to leave and have you arrested for trespassing if you do not.

You have NO right to enter a business at will against the wishes of the owner. None. A business is not a public place or public property. It is private property.

Tell me, how many people have been banned or suspended from posting on AT? My gawd, how can that be? Have you ever been given a "vacation" here? How could that be???

Wow. Like I said, it's people who think like you that scare the hell out of me. Just because I LET you shop in my stores or drink in my bars, suddenly you feel entitled to do so against my will. Suddenly you feel entitled to force me to maintain an atmosphere you agree with, even if I choose to do something else.

BTW, before you start: I'm a non-smoker who hates the smell. I have never allowed smoking in any of my stores. That was MY CHOICE.

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Vic
I applaud their civil disobedience and wish them luck.

It's not the smokers who are the whiners, it's a small minority of self-righteous non-smokers. You don't like smoking in bars, then don't fscking go to smoky bars! I'm a non-smoker, and that's exactly what I do. And what a shocker, bars are becoming non-smoking all by themselves everywhere you go! They want the non-smoker business just as much as they smoker business.

These laws pass democratic elections BTW because the overwhelming majority of the electorate never even goes to a bar -- young people don't vote. Grandma OTOH never misses an election.

I love how legislation to ban smoking suddenly becomes self righteous. There wouldn't be these laws if the majority of smokers actually gave 2 shits who is around them when they light up. They just assume you will deal with it or leave....even if you were there first. It's like one of those belligerent drunk douchebags who just sits down next to you and won't stfu about ufos.

The in-your-face self-righteousness in this post in quite ironic.

Of course legislation to ban smoking is self righteous. Who the hell are you to tell other people what to do with themselves? And to use the force of law to do so? The only way you could possibly justify such actions is by believing that your sh!t don't stink.

Who the hell are smokers to inflect health hazards on others? Of course my sh!t stinks. That is why I just don't walk up to a group of people and take a sh!t. When people won't do the right thing, sometimes you have to make them. So are bathrooms self righteous? How dare we tell people where to take a crap or piss.

If 2nd hand smoke is such a health hazard, then why aren't you addicted? Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs on earth, far more so even than heroin, especially from first dose (some 90% of all people who try smoking just once become addicted).

If the health hazard is so serious, then why does it take smokers decades and decades of heavy smoking in order to die?

Is this issue here maybe that you're just brainwashed into blind fear? Ah... fascism... :roll:

So if it doesn't kill me tomorrow, then I shouldn't care? Oh, I get your point...2nd hand smoke won't have an affect on me for several decades...so I shouldn't care. There are different levels of health hazards. Even if they came out with proof that no matter what, 2nd hand smoke will never kill you, I still would be in favor of smoking bans. I don't want any health issues imposed on me. If that is your thing, then smoke. I don't care. I just wish smokers would stop being selfish pricks and impose those carefree thoughts on the rest of the public.

Trying actually reading my posts before you respond to them. Especially if you quote them FFS.

I read them, so I must have missed your point. Can you explain it another way?

 

[Vic]

Yeah, if no one ever gets kicked out of bars, then why does almost every bar have a bouncer?


Mike, I bolded my point for your convenience. And you even quoted it with the bold. Lovely straw man there. I'll do my own for illustration purposes: you must be an alcoholic. Hey man, if that's your thing, good for you, but drunk driving is so dangerous that we really need to bring back prohibition!
Now don't you see how stupid your argument looks?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Mike


I read them, so I must have missed your point. Can you explain it another way?

Mike, it's this easy:

If you're in someone else's business, and somebody next to you lights up, your beef is not with them, but the owner. The owner chose to allow smoking in his establishment. Tell the owner you don't like smoking. He can either choose to ban smoking, or not. If he chooses not to, he has elected to risk losing your business. Your only recourse then is to take your business elsewhere.

That's it. It's that easy. Don't do buiness with those who allow smoking on their property if it offends you.