Some Bar Owners Defy Colorado Smoking Ban

[OutHouse]

http://cbs4denver.com/health/local_story_064083954.html


Some Bar Owners Defy Colorado Smoking Ban
Poll: Should Colorado's smoking ban be reconsidered to help smaller bars stay open?
Contact reporter Rick Sallinger at rsallinger@cbs.com

Rick Sallinger
Reporting

(CBS4) DENVER Some bar owners in Colorado have started encouraging customers to defy the state's smoking ban because they believe it is illegal. A group in Colorado Springs plans to meet with bar owners in Denver next week.

DJ's Bar and Grill in Colorado Springs is one of several bars collecting money from its smoking customers. The money is used to pay the fines the bar will likely receive for allowing people to smoke inside.

Other bar owners support the idea. About half-a-dozen bars in Colorado Springs have joined the effort.

They said several bars have been forced to close and fire employees because of the smoking ban.

"To my knowledge we have more than 22 bars closed, you've got 400 people unemployed and if it weren't for the smokers, frankly I'd be out of business," said James Vonfeldt, owner of Billy's Inn Bar.

Vonfeldt's bar is on 44th in Denver. He said his business saw a drop in revenue when he tried to stop smokers from lighting up.

Vonfeldt said he makes sure his customers know the law, but he doesn't enforce it.

Bars in Colorado Springs that have been allowing customers to smoke said they plan to fight any fine in court. They believe it will cost the state more to prosecute the fines than the fines are worth.

 

[mobobuff]

"SOME Bar Owners Defy...."

That's an editorial no-no.

 

[Amused]

It's happening in Springfield, IL too. Some owners are letting people smoke. Since the smoking ban, 12 bars in this small city have closed.

 

[JulesMaximus]

WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

 

[Beev]

Edit: Yeah that^^^^^

I never understood the fascination with wanting to kill yourself slowly. I'll stick to drinking at home with friends or a smoke-free bar, thanks.

 

[KarenMarie]

I remember reading that when the ban first started in NY, that some bar owners pulled the state run gambling machines in protest. Their thoughts were... you screw with our income, we will screw with yours. The state tried to guilt trip them that the money from the machines went for kids' and schools and etc. Ha.

Legally... I think that it should be up to individual bar owners to decide if smoking should be allowed or not.

But on a personal level, as a smoker, I agree with the ban in restaurants. I can even see the point in bar/restuarants and food chains. But theban in beer and shot joints is bullshit.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

It's absolutely their right. Just like it's our right to not patronize places filled with smoke, a right that I exercise regularly.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I remember reading that when the ban first started in NY, that some bar owners pulled the state run gambling machines in protest. Their thoughts were... you screw with our income, we will screw with yours. The state tried to guilt trip them that the money from the machines went for kids' and schools and etc. Ha.

Legally... I think that it should be up to individual bar owners to decide if smoking should be allowed or not.

But on a personal level, as a smoker, I agree with the ban in restaurants. I can even see the point in bar/restuarants and food chains. But theban in beer and shot joints is bullshit.

:thumbsup:

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

This isn't about smokers. This is about bar owners.

And the majority in most bars are smokers.

 

[Beev]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I remember reading that when the ban first started in NY, that some bar owners pulled the state run gambling machines in protest. Their thoughts were... you screw with our income, we will screw with yours. The state tried to guilt trip them that the money from the machines went for kids' and schools and etc. Ha.

Legally... I think that it should be up to individual bar owners to decide if smoking should be allowed or not.

But on a personal level, as a smoker, I agree with the ban in restaurants. I can even see the point in bar/restuarants and food chains. But theban in beer and shot joints is bullshit.

I do agree with this. It should be banned in family restaurants, but let bar owners choose. I mean, you're already going there to kill your liver, what's a little smoke going to do?

 

[tfcmasta97]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Id rather sit beside a smoker relaxing with a cig than hearing whiny b1tches

 

[Beev]

Originally posted by: tfcmasta97

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Id rather sit beside a smoker relaxing with a cig than hearing whiny b1tches

Well, in this case they happen to be one and the same...

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

This isn't about smokers. This is about bar owners.

And the majority in most bars are smokers.

No, it's pretty much about smokers. Why would a bar owner give a fvck about this (unless he's a smoker of course)? If smoking is banned in all bars how does this hurt a bar owner? It doesn't make people want to go to other bars because smoking is banned in all drinking establishments.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

It's absolutely their right. Just like it's our right to not patronize places filled with smoke, a right that I exercise regularly.

Are there any such places where you live?

Thankfully, there are here...in fact, smoking is banned in all public buildings where I live. It's something I really only fully appreciate when I go to states that don't have these laws though.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

This isn't about smokers. This is about bar owners.

And the majority in most bars are smokers.

No, it's pretty much about smokers. Why would a bar owner give a fvck about this (unless he's a smoker of course)? If smoking is banned in all bars how does this hurt a bar owner? It doesn't make people want to go to other bars because smoking is banned in all drinking establishments.

did you read the piece? 22 bars have closed in Coloraod Springs since the ban. so yea a bar owner cares a whole lot about this wheter he is smoker or not.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

This isn't about smokers. This is about bar owners.

And the majority in most bars are smokers.

No, it's pretty much about smokers. Why would a bar owner give a fvck about this (unless he's a smoker of course)? If smoking is banned in all bars how does this hurt a bar owner? It doesn't make people want to go to other bars because smoking is banned in all drinking establishments.

Smokers (the majority of drinkers) choose to stay home or host house parties more often. Or, in areas with city wide bans, they go out of the city limits and patronize bars that still allow smoking.

The town I live in is a perfect example. City bars business is down by more than 40%. 12 bars are closed. Bars outside the ban area are booming and many more in those areas have opened.

House parties are way up here, especially when it's very cold.

Look, you can deny it all you want, but in some areas, smoking bans hurt business.

And yes, it is about bar owners. It's their property, their choice. If you don't like smoke, don't go somehwere that allows smoking.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

It's absolutely their right. Just like it's our right to not patronize places filled with smoke, a right that I exercise regularly.

Are there any such places where you live?

Thankfully, there are here...in fact, smoking is banned in all public buildings where I live. It's something I really only fully appreciate when I go to states that don't have these laws though.

A bar is not a public building. It is private property.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

This isn't about smokers. This is about bar owners.

And the majority in most bars are smokers.

No, it's pretty much about smokers. Why would a bar owner give a fvck about this (unless he's a smoker of course)? If smoking is banned in all bars how does this hurt a bar owner? It doesn't make people want to go to other bars because smoking is banned in all drinking establishments.

did you read the piece? 22 bars have closed in Coloraod Springs since the ban. so yea a bar owner cares a whole lot about this wheter he is smoker or not.

So, where did the drunk smokers take their business? Must have been a lot of them...or these bars were on the verge of bankruptcy to begin with. Wow, a whopping 22 bars closed in Colorado Springs...what's that leave anyway? 2,000 left that didn't close? I love statistics like these...won't someone think of the business owners!!!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

It's absolutely their right. Just like it's our right to not patronize places filled with smoke, a right that I exercise regularly.

Are there any such places where you live?

Thankfully, there are here...in fact, smoking is banned in all public buildings where I live. It's something I really only fully appreciate when I go to states that don't have these laws though.

A bar is not a public building. It is private property.

No, my house if private property. A bar is a little different.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

It's absolutely their right. Just like it's our right to not patronize places filled with smoke, a right that I exercise regularly.

Are there any such places where you live?

Thankfully, there are here...in fact, smoking is banned in all public buildings where I live. It's something I really only fully appreciate when I go to states that don't have these laws though.

A bar is not a public building. It is private property.

No, my house if private property. A bar is a little different.

Really? So business owners don't own their property?

Wow...

People who think like you scare the hell out of me. You really do.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Amused: Jules' point, from my point of view, is that he doesn't agree with smoking in places where the general public is allowed.

Jules: Businesses are private property and they should be allowed to do as they choose to an extent.

I'm not sure where I stand on this, but I will say that it is their property and I'm not sure if it should have passed as a law to include bars. The bar owner is defining his target market, and if it includes smokers, well, then that's his choice. We aren't writing their business plan, they are.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I want to smoke, kill myself slowly, annoy the crap out of those around me, and defy the will of the majority!!! God dammit, it's my right!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

This isn't about smokers. This is about bar owners.

And the majority in most bars are smokers.

No, it's pretty much about smokers. Why would a bar owner give a fvck about this (unless he's a smoker of course)? If smoking is banned in all bars how does this hurt a bar owner? It doesn't make people want to go to other bars because smoking is banned in all drinking establishments.

Are you stupid? Smoking banned in bars = people don't go to bars anymore, since they can't smoke and drink, so they stay home and drink and smoke. I bet liquor store owners love this ban.


Take your whiny, greenpeace, tree hugger "wah, i wanna breathe clean air!" BS elsewhere.

PS: I don't smoke.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Amused

Really? So business owners don't own their property?

Wow...

People who think like you scare the hell out of me. You really do.

I said it's different, I didn't say they don't own the property. I don't allow people to just walk into my house whenever they please. Do you?

 

[Vic]

I applaud their civil disobedience and wish them luck.

It's not the smokers who are the whiners, it's a small minority of self-righteous non-smokers. You don't like smoking in bars, then don't fscking go to smoky bars! I'm a non-smoker, and that's exactly what I do. And what a shocker, bars are becoming non-smoking all by themselves everywhere you go! They want the non-smoker business just as much as they smoker business.

These laws pass democratic elections BTW because the overwhelming majority of the electorate never even goes to a bar -- young people don't vote. Grandma OTOH never misses an election.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Amused

Really? So business owners don't own their property?

Wow...

People who think like you scare the hell out of me. You really do.

I said it's different, I didn't say they don't own the property. I don't allow people to just walk into my house whenever they please. Do you?

You're going off the tangent, here. The point is that the choice should rest with the bar owner, not the nanny state. Unless of course, the nanny state wants to start paying the bar owner's property taxes, license fees and mortgage/rent costs for his building.