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Solyndra to Declare Bankruptcy - now with more FBI raiding

misle

misle

Diamond Member
Link to story

Solyndra, a major manufacturer of solar technology in Fremont, has shut its doors, according to employees at the campus.
...
Solyndra was touted by the Obama administration as a prime example of how green technology could deliver jobs. The President visited the facility in May of last year and said "it is just a testament to American ingenuity and dynamism and the fact that we continue to have the best universities in the world, the best technology in the world, and most importantly the best workers in the world. And you guys all represent that."

The federal government offered $535 million in low cost loan guarantees from the Department of Energy. NBC Bay Area has contacted the White House asking for a statement.
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Turns out that wasn't a good photo-op for the President after all.

While the greener technologies are interesting and getting better, they are still very expensive. I've had trouble understanding the push for these technologies in a recession, when people/companies aren't buying anything beyond necessities.

Looks like the taxpayer will be eating a half a billion here. :thumbsdown:


UPDATE - 9/08/11:
More trouble for Solyndra - Raided by FBI

Link to Story

FBI agents on Thursday executed search warrants at the headquarters of Solyndra LLC, which was awarded more than $500,000 in federal stimulus loans in 2009 to make solar panels in what the Obama administration called part of an aggressive effort to put more Americans to work and end U.S. dependence on foreign oil.
....
FBI spokesman Peter Lee said he could not provide details about the investigation.
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misle said:
While the greener technologies are interesting and getting better, they are still very expensive. I've had trouble understanding the push for these technologies in a recession, when people/companies aren't buying anything beyond necessities.
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Depends who is buying it. For you and me, green is expensive. For companies, green is sometimes cheaper. Example: traffic signals with solar panels on top, LED lights, and a rechargeable lead acid battery. The LED and solar mean it never needs to be plugged in, and the battery doesn't need to be swapped very often. That greatly reduces maintenance cost. Sending a guy out in a truck to change or charge the battery is expensive as hell.

LEDs and solar panels are made for each other. Next to my walk way I have a bunch of solar charged LED lights. The sun charges a single NiCd battery and it shines all night :thumbsup:
(yes I know nicad batteries are horrible for that type of cycling. lead acid would be a lot better)
 
Craig234 said:
The report I heard said the issue isn't the lack of a market, it was the foreign competition.
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It's both.

All the 'green' stuff that was touted as being an economy booster has been outsourced to china, yet again. Did anyone really believe that it wouldn't be?
 
The real problem is that we are giving money to artificially created companies.

Someone in government decided that have a solar cell plant would be a good idea so they went out and created one. But there was never a solid basis for the company in the first place.


If there was a solid basis then someone else would have already started it and would have been making money at it. Once again government interference into the free market produces bad results.
 
we need to pull all government subsidiaries out. these solar companies wouldn't even exist without them and that means THEY SHOULDN'T. when the technology advances to the point it's affordable, people will purchase it. until then it's absolutely retarded.

pull all subsidiaries, for oil, for corn, for everything.
 
The article in the paper here mentions a 42% drop in solar panel prices as being one cause.

That's a bit of a silver lining, that funding competition possibly helped cause such a large drop, which makes solar power more affordable and reduces oil consumption.

The bad news is of course that the competition was mostly from Chinese companies, so we trade oil use for more debt to China.

pull all subsidiaries, for oil, for corn, for everything.
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I mostly agree with this, but sometimes tax credits or subsidies can help a market get going to the point where it is self-sustaining.

Reducing our dependency on oil is worth throwing some money at, though we certainly can argue about exactly how to do it.
 
ShawnD1 said:
Depends who is buying it. For you and me, green is expensive. For companies, green is sometimes cheaper. Example: traffic signals with solar panels on top, LED lights, and a rechargeable lead acid battery. The LED and solar mean it never needs to be plugged in, and the battery doesn't need to be swapped very often. That greatly reduces maintenance cost. Sending a guy out in a truck to change or charge the battery is expensive as hell.

LEDs and solar panels are made for each other. Next to my walk way I have a bunch of solar charged LED lights. The sun charges a single NiCd battery and it shines all night :thumbsup:
(yes I know nicad batteries are horrible for that type of cycling. lead acid would be a lot better)
Click to expand...
True dat. (Damn I'm so hood.) In some places we're even seeing (and specifying) solar site lighting, because the cost of bringing in power is higher than the cost of periodically changing batteries and cleaning solar panels. High efficacy LEDs and computer-aided reflector design & aiming make these not only possible, but in some cases practical.

Craig234 said:
The report I heard said the issue isn't the lack of a market, it was the foreign competition.
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This is my understanding as well. Solar panels are still being sold - although granted, except for specialty items like Shawn mentions, only with government subsidies - but Solyndra simply proved unable to compete with Chinese-made panels. I believe they closed their factories and moved them to China, but that left them with nothing to bring to the table.

This is I believe an illustration of the consequences of our losing what has been termed our commons. We no longer have the manufacturing technology expertise to compete in high tech fields, except for low production, highly specialized fields like military hardware. This is a damned shame and it's killing our country, and the longer we wait to fix it, the more difficult (and expensive) that becomes. And the less likely that it succeeds.

Profjohn makes a good point though about government giving money to artificially created companies. These companies are always speculative, but government financing so much of a company will always be done on a political basis. I like to see these start-up companies - they are the very definition of innovation - but I don't like to see government giving them money for nothing. Government selecting winners and losers usually just means government selecting holes in which to throw money.
 
$500 million for a 1,100 jobs for two years??

$454,000 a job...

This is why government spending on jobs is such a waste. They cost a ton per job and once the government money is gone the jobs tend to go away.

We could have spent that money on a new bridge or a few extra freeway lanes or other long term projects that would have at least provided economic gain in the long term.
 
ProfJohn said:
The real problem is that we are giving money to artificially created companies.
Someone in government decided that have a solar cell plant would be a good idea so they went out and created one. But there was never a solid basis for the company in the first place.
If there was a solid basis then someone else would have already started it and would have been making money at it. Once again government interference into the free market produces bad results.
Click to expand...
Solyndra:
2005 Founded by Dr. Christian Gronet
2006 Established headquarters in Fremont, California
2007 Began production in Fab 1
2008 Commenced commercial solar panel shipments
Opened office in Germany
2009 Largest single Solyndra installation in U.S. 529kW
Received $535 million DOE loan guarantee for construction of Fab 2
Groundbreaking for Fab 2 with Vice President Biden, Energy Secretary Chu, and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger

Major investors include U.S. Venture Partners, CMEA Ventures, Redpoint Ventures, Virgin Green Fund, Madrone Capital Partners, RockPort Capital Partners, Argonaut Private Equity, Masdar and Artis Capital Management.

But because they got a federal loan guarantee they're an artificial company created at the behest of some government official?
 
CallMeJoe said:
Solyndra:
2005 Founded by Dr. Christian Gronet
2006 Established headquarters in Fremont, California
2007 Began production in Fab 1
2008 Commenced commercial solar panel shipments
Opened office in Germany
2009 Largest single Solyndra installation in U.S. 529kW
Received $535 million DOE loan guarantee for construction of Fab 2
Groundbreaking for Fab 2 with Vice President Biden, Energy Secretary Chu, and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger

Major investors include U.S. Venture Partners, CMEA Ventures, Redpoint Ventures, Virgin Green Fund, Madrone Capital Partners, RockPort Capital Partners, Argonaut Private Equity, Masdar and Artis Capital Management.

But because they got a federal loan guarantee they're an artificial company created at the behest of some government official?
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yes they are. they're closing up shop without it right? i mean no private investors are going to keep them afloat because they can't sustain themselves let alone turn a profit.
 
ProfJohn said:
$500 million for a 1,100 jobs for two years??
$454,000 a job...
This is why government spending on jobs is such a waste. They cost a ton per job and once the government money is gone the jobs tend to go away.
We could have spent that money on a new bridge or a few extra freeway lanes or other long term projects that would have at least provided economic gain in the long term.
Click to expand...
Reading comprehension?
The money was a loan guarantee, not federal spending.
 
Well, they failed right?

Did we give them money because they had a good long term business plan or because they were in a politically correct industry?

And how do you burn through $535 million in two years?
 
ShawnD1 said:
Depends who is buying it. For you and me, green is expensive. For companies, green is sometimes cheaper. Example: traffic signals with solar panels on top, LED lights, and a rechargeable lead acid battery. The LED and solar mean it never needs to be plugged in, and the battery doesn't need to be swapped very often. That greatly reduces maintenance cost. Sending a guy out in a truck to change or charge the battery is expensive as hell.

LEDs and solar panels are made for each other. Next to my walk way I have a bunch of solar charged LED lights. The sun charges a single NiCd battery and it shines all night :thumbsup:
(yes I know nicad batteries are horrible for that type of cycling. lead acid would be a lot better)
Click to expand...

The price of Chinese solar panels has fallen through the floor. ARA has helped a lot of the US manufacturers but that is a very small chunk of the market.

I don't know anyone that uses US made (not "assembled" in the US bullshit) crystalline panels unless they are forced to or a customer specifically asks (VERY rare even if given the choice).
 
AH!!! Found the problem!

"Goldman, Sachs & Co. acted as exclusive financial advisor to Solyndra in connection with this loan guarantee application."
 
ProfJohn said:
Well, they failed right?
Did we give them money because they had a good long term business plan or because they were in a politically correct industry?
And how do you burn through $535 million in two years?
Click to expand...
Politics may have influenced the decision behind the loan guarantee, but that doesn't mean they necessarily had a bad business plan.
As for burning through $535 million, there is a $733 million manufacturing plant in Fremont, Ca., to show for the money.
ProfJohn said:
And who guaranteed the loan?
And what happens now that they are broke and can't pay back that loan... :hmm:
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Reading Comprehension again - Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.
Reorganization, not liquidation.
 
CallMeJoe said:
Politics may have influenced the decision behind the loan guarantee, but that doesn't mean they necessarily had a bad business plan.
As for burning through $535 million, there is a $733 million manufacturing plant in Fremont, Ca., to show for the money.

Reading Comprehension again - Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.
Reorganization, not liquidation.
Click to expand...

Their business plan was obviously bad. They relied on their competition to supply them with rare earth minerals, lols.
 
CallMeJoe said:
Politics may have influenced the decision behind the loan guarantee, but that doesn't mean they necessarily had a bad business plan.
As for burning through $535 million, there is a $733 million manufacturing plant in Fremont, Ca., to show for the money.

Reading Comprehension again - Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.
Reorganization, not liquidation.
Click to expand...
A SHUTTERED manufacturing facility that cannot compete with Chinese-made imports; not likely it's worth that $733 million now.

The worst part is that this is a highly automated robotic manufacturing facility. (Which, granted, makes the loan pretty much an anti-job creating loan. LOL) If we cannot compete with China using a state of the art, highly automated robotic manufacturing facility, we're well and truly screwed. And at best, any company could take that same technology, move it to China, and out-compete them simply because of the less stringent environmental and safety regulations, even if all virtually the labor costs could be removed.

Dropping our technology transfer barriers was the single worst thing that any President has done in my lifetime.
 
CallMeJoe said:
Politics may have influenced the decision behind the loan guarantee, but that doesn't mean they necessarily had a bad business plan.
As for burning through $535 million, there is a $733 million manufacturing plant in Fremont, Ca., to show for the money.

Reading Comprehension again - Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.
Reorganization, not liquidation.
Click to expand...

Located down the street from the former NUMMI auto plant 🙂
Its a really nice looking building too with lots of glass architecture.


Maybe Tesla can buy up Solyndra too and make a solar powered electric car.
 
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