[Solved] AMD FX 6300 or wait for Steamroller

[NostaSeronx]

Kaveri is replacing Richland (AMD 6000 series), which does not go into the FX territory. Berlin is only going into the 1P server area, not the 2P-4P server market that currently Piledriver has. Piledriver in the server market is going to be replaced by Warsaw, but that is still Piledriver cores with some potential improvements. See this roadmap http://techreport.com/news/24973/ber...-server-lineup

Kaveri/Berlin FM2+ is replacing ALL AM3+ platforms based on that roadmap. Don't get me started on how Warsaw is monolithic and only is for the G34 socket.

AM3+ and C32 has been killed off with Kaveri/Berlin/Warsaw.

 

[NTMBK]

Kaveri/Berlin FM2+ is replacing ALL AM3+ platforms based on that roadmap. Don't get me started on how Warsaw is monolithic and only is for the G34 socket.

AM3+ and C32 has been killed off with Kaveri/Berlin/Warsaw.

You've claimed this before, but I've seen no evidence. Why would AMD produce a new MASSIVE 16 core die with terrible yields, for the server market where they have a tiny (and shrinking) market share? It makes no sense.

 

[AtenRa]

You've claimed this before, but I've seen no evidence. Why would AMD produce a new MASSIVE 16 core die with terrible yields, for the server market where they have a tiny (and shrinking) market share? It makes no sense.

First of all, the AMD 12/16 core Opterons are McM (Multi Chip Module), dual dies (8 core each) put together.

Secondly, the high end Server CPUs have much higher margins than lower end parts. That makes it viably to produce them at that low volume.

Third, we haven’t seen the Desktop roadmap for 2014 yet but I bet AM3+ will still be there.

 

[inf64]

Yup, Warsaw is just a tweaked 6300 series, still MCM of two 8T dice. No native 16T parts there. I suspect AMD will try to push FX9xxx as performance part and maybe release 125W 4.2/4.4Ghz FX8450 in Q1 next year. Since intel will only have "Haswell Refresh", AMD doesn't need SR, they can compete quite good in variety of workloads with FX9xxx albeit with big power draw handicap. Maybe they can work on bringing down the power draw of the FX9xxx parts to lower levels.

 

[monstercameron]

Yup, Warsaw is just a tweaked 6300 series, still MCM of two 8T dice. No native 16T parts there. I suspect AMD will try to push FX9xxx as performance part and maybe release 125W 4.2/4.4Ghz FX8450 in Q1 next year. Since intel will only have "Haswell Refresh", AMD doesn't need SR, they can compete quite good in variety of workloads with FX9xxx albeit with big power draw handicap. Maybe they can work on bringing down the power draw of the FX9xxx parts to lower levels.

any word on possible fx die shrink before steamroller?

 

[NTMBK]

First of all, the AMD 12/16 core Opterons are McM (Multi Chip Module), dual dies (8 core each) put together.

Secondly, the high end Server CPUs have much higher margins than lower end parts. That makes it viably to produce them at that low volume.

Third, we haven’t seen the Desktop roadmap for 2014 yet but I bet AM3+ will still be there.

Oh, I agree that they could justify a slightly tweaked Piledriver MCM part (and hopefully that will show up in an AM3+ SKU). But Seronx claims that we will get a 16 core monolithic die, not an MCM- which makes no sense.

 

[gx_saurav]

Umm...guys, this thread is getting confusing now. Can we please not sway away from the topic?

I purchased the new cabinet today. Cooler Master HAF 912 Combat. Here is a pic of my cable management. This is just the first round of cable management because I will need to do it again after I install the GPU.

Front 200mm Cooler master mega flow + Side 140mm Cooler master mega flow is for intake. They always run at full speed.

Rear and top 120 mm exhaust are temprature controlled by motherboard.

CPU fan is taking air from the bottom of PC and throwing it towards the exhause which is then throwing it outside of cabinet.

So, this is it for now. Next up, I am waiting for Black friday to buy the GPU and I hope by then Steamroller roadmap will be clear.

 

[KingFatty]

Nice. when you do the next round of cable management, what else would you change? I see some of those power cables toward the bottom, the red/yellow/black ones, along with that black cable, what is that, for external USB? But anyway, does the case have an access port near those cables where you can stick them through or do you think you are stuck with those being outside as shown?

Also, why did you decide to run the front and side fans bull blast all the time? I like to turn down my fans when possible, so it's very quiet when doing things that don't generate heat.

Oh, also I wanted to ask, why did you put the CPU cooler vertical? I think your motherboard has a motherboard heatsink between the CPU and the rear fan, so maybe consider if it would help cool off that heatsink if you turn the CPU fan to face rear instead of up? Everything I've seen seems to indicate that the CPU is not cooled any more or less when you point its fan vertical or horizontal, but it may affect the airflow to that motherboard heatsink?

 

[BigChickenJim]

King Fatty, the large top exhaust will create more than enough suction to pull heat off that heatsink. Besides, you generally want the cooler pushing air towards your most efficient exhaust point, and for him that's the top fan.

OP, I use an overclocked FX-6300 Vishera. It does fine in multithreaded titles, but it struggles quite a bit in single-threaded or CPU-intensive situtations. That's not to say it can't run current games comfortably on ultra settings--I hardly ever see mins under 40 even in extremely CPU-heavy situations--but if Steamroller makes significant improvements it may be worth the wait. If you're impatient, though, the 6300 will do just fine. If you're willing to overclock it will do even better.

 

[gx_saurav]

I did the cable management again. I don't think I can do it any better for now without the GPU. I left lots of space for the GPU to fit easily.

[

OP, I use an overclocked FX-6300 Vishera. It does fine in multithreaded titles, but it struggles quite a bit in single-threaded or CPU-intensive situtations.

One thing came to my mind. AMD FX 6300 and Richland 6700/6800k are both based on Piledriver core. How different is the performance between these two?

I was looking at the market and saw Asus A88 chipset based FM2+ motherboard. This motherboard can use a A10-6700 CPU (Socket FM2) right now and can also user Future AMD Kaveri APUs (Socket FM2+) hence I can buy this motherboard and 6700/6800k right now and later upgrade just the CPU to a Steamroller based Kaveri APU when they are released.

I assume that performance wise FX series is more powerful then APUs but how much?


By the way, does any one has experience with this GPU? http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-mini-...pr_product_top Does this needs two PCIe power connectors? Will my Corsair CX500v3 be enough for it. (I incorrectly mentioned v2 previously. I checked today and it is v3 Bronze due to 38 amp on 12v rail)

This card is factory overclocked to 975 Mhz. That is a lot over the default 860 Mhz of 7850 GPU. Is it worth paying the $50 premium for this compared to this 1 GB variant running at 900 Mhz http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Thing is, Amazon gives free shipping to India only over $125. That $ 144 is only $19 costly so I can very well order it right now. It is highly likely that by Black Friday this GPU will surely get $20 reduction in price though.

 

[gx_saurav]

Edit: How do I delete this post?

 

[Enigmoid]

One thing came to my mind. AMD FX 6300 and Richland 6700/6800k are both based on Piledriver core. How different is the performance between these two?

I was looking at the market and saw Asus A88 chipset based FM2+ motherboard. This motherboard can use a A10-6700 CPU (Socket FM2) right now and can also user Future AMD Kaveri APUs (Socket FM2+) hence I can buy this motherboard and 6700/6800k right now and later upgrade just the CPU to a Steamroller based Kaveri APU when they are released.

I assume that performance wise FX series is more powerful then APUs but how much?

The 6300 series is 6 cores vs 4 cores for the APUs. FX also has L3 cache but no igp.

 

[gx_saurav]

The 6300 series is 6 cores vs 4 cores for the APUs. FX also has L3 cache but no igp.

That I know. I was talking about performance difference.

According to benchmarks, AMD FX 4300 scores similar to A10 6800K and FX 6300 scores more. The FX series CPUs are unlocked so they must be costing higher due to overclockability which I anyway don't intend to do. But still, the performance difference is high enough to warrant not going with AMD APU any more for performance gaming.

 

[KingFatty]

Hmm, there is performance to be gained by overclocking, why wouldn't you be interested in that?

To put it another way, if you don't need the extra free performance boost offered by overclocking, perhaps you don't need the existing performance of that chip and could get a lower-tier performance that satisfies your needs and saves even more money?

You seem to have an overclocking-friendly approach, with your cable management and your CPU cooler, I say go for it! The FX-6300 has a good ability to overclock - I was able to overclock mine and it gave me a huge boost in Starcraft 2 (which was CPU limited) - I went from averaging 45 frames per second before overclocking the FX-6300, to over 70 frames per second after overclocking it. That made a tangible improvement in gameplay that I could feel. Also, after finishing that game, I just turned off the overclocking so I'm running stock again, very simple to turn it on/off on demand. Extra cooling to the motherboard heatsink can help prevent the motherboard from throttling the CPU, because you typically increase the voltage a bit and that drives more current.

 

[gx_saurav]

I tried doing this in BIOS using MSI OC geenie 2 and computer failed to boot. It booted after turning off all power and I got a message "Previous overclock failed. Please press F1 to set up".

I think I can overclock just that I don't know how to overclock. Besides, from what I can see, people are able to overclock FX 6300 from 3.5 GHz to 4 GHz easily on Air. Lets see. Since I will be paying once only for a CPU for the next 2 3 years, I better buy something good so that I can overclock if needed in future.

But anyway, before that I need to buy a discreet graphics card. Like I showed the two links above, Gigabyte has a 2GB variant of HD 7850 with 115 MHz overclock over stock speed but at a cost difference. Is it good to go with factory overclocked GPUs? I seem to have the required power supply already.

 

[BigChickenJim]

I tried doing this in BIOS using MSI OC geenie 2 and computer failed to boot. It booted after turning off all power and I got a message "Previous overclock failed. Please press F1 to set up".

I think I can overclock just that I don't know how to overclock. Besides, from what I can see, people are able to overclock FX 6300 from 3.5 GHz to 4 GHz easily on Air. Lets see. Since I will be paying once only for a CPU for the next 2 3 years, I better buy something good so that I can overclock if needed in future.

But anyway, before that I need to buy a discreet graphics card. Like I showed the two links above, Gigabyte has a 2GB variant of HD 7850 with 115 MHz overclock over stock speed but at a cost difference. Is it good to go with factory overclocked GPUs? I seem to have the required power supply already.

It's stupidly easy to take the 6300 to 4.0 GHz. Seriously. It gets harder past that point, but reaching a stable 4.0 is as simple as modifying the CPU multiplier and FSB as long as you have a decent mobo and cooler. It literally took me two minutes to complete my OC (before stress testing, obviously).

I think there's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to OCing GPUs, and that point is right about at the 78xx mark for Radeon cards. You might see some small (<10 FPS) gains from a core clock or memory OC, but I personally don't think it's worth the possible side effects and I certainly wouldn't pay extra for it. Buy a reference card at stock and OC it later if it strikes your fancy.

 

[gx_saurav]

It's stupidly easy to take the 6300 to 4.0 GHz. Seriously. It gets harder past that point, but reaching a stable 4.0 is as simple as modifying the CPU multiplier and FSB as long as you have a decent mobo and cooler. It literally took me two minutes to complete my OC (before stress testing, obviously).

Ok, this I can try once I get the new CPU + motherboard. As long as I don't end up with a fried chip, I am ok with it. Do u think Coresair CX 500v3 + MSI 970A-G43 be good for this?

I think there's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to OCing GPUs, and that point is right about at the 78xx mark for Radeon cards. You might see some small (<10 FPS) gains from a core clock or memory OC, but I personally don't think it's worth the possible side effects and I certainly wouldn't pay extra for it. Buy a reference card at stock and OC it later if it strikes your fancy.

I was thinking the same thing. The risk of breaking an expensive GPU is higher. I will keep this in mind when buying. If pre-overclocked edition has a minor cost difference compared to non-overclocked version then I will buy it. If not, then the stock version.

 

[BigChickenJim]

Ok, this I can try once I get the new CPU + motherboard. As long as I don't end up with a fried chip, I am ok with it. Do u think Coresair CX 500v3 + MSI 970A-G43 be good for this?

I'd be careful on that board. As you may have noticed in my signature, I use a 970A-G46. It's a great budget board that can be had for under $100 and it also implements some important improvements over the older G43-G45 models--namely the VRM heat spreaders. The G43-45 have no VRM heatsinks, and that combined with the 4+1 phasing can cause some serious heat issues (CPU throttling or VRM failure usually) at higher voltages. I've had no issues with VRM heat levels while trying to push my chip to 4.3 GHz (still frustratingly unstable, BOO!), but I don't think I'd push that far on a G43.

That said, you won't need much of a V bump to make it to 4.0GHz and you will most likely be fine as long as you have adequate case airflow and a reasonable ambient temp. However, I can't say that for sure and I'd hate for you to damage something. Any possibility of a cheap mobo upgrade to go along with the GPU/CPU? That would be the wisest option.

 

[gx_saurav]

Any possibility of a cheap mobo upgrade to go along with the GPU/CPU? That would be the wisest option.

I will buy the GPU first and then CPU + motherboard together.

I checked your motherboard and it doesn't have front USB 3.0 header (19pin). I use USB 3.0 devices a lot so this I need which is why I selected the G43 model.

I may have to look at other motherboards from Asus or Gigabyte but that is again on hold now. The GPU comes first.

 

[BigChickenJim]

I will buy the GPU first and then CPU + motherboard together.

I checked your motherboard and it doesn't have front USB 3.0 header (19pin). I use USB 3.0 devices a lot so this I need which is why I selected the G43 model.

I may have to look at other motherboards from Asus or Gigabyte but that is again on hold now. The GPU comes first.

I see. Well, my two cents on the GPU is that you should skip the OC 7850 and get a reference 7870. It'll perform well in nearly all modern games (high settings or better at 1080P 40-60 FPS) and if you buy a Crossfire-enabled mobo you can add a second one when your horsepower starts drooping. I use 2x 7870s and I personally think it's the best sub $500 graphical solution on the market as of right now.

I may have already said all of this... sorry if I have. It's a pain to scroll through the thread on my phone and my memory is not what it used to be.

 

[gx_saurav]

I see. Well, my two cents on the GPU is that you should skip the OC 7850 and get a reference 7870. It'll perform well in nearly all modern games (high settings or better at 1080P 40-60 FPS) and if you buy a Crossfire-enabled mobo you can add a second one when your horsepower starts drooping. I use 2x 7870s and I personally think it's the best sub $500 graphical solution on the market as of right now.

I found a Radeon HD 7870 from HIS available on Amazon for $ 200. The cost is hardly anything over that overclocked Gigabyte Radeon HD 7850 I was talking about. It does seem like a better idea to go with HD 7870 but will my Power supply be able to handle it? I will look into this possibility in Nov.

I won't be going with crossfire, that setup is too costly and considering I don't play games a lot, only on weekends so I need something which is cool and quite and give me enough performance when compiling on Visual studio and tanscoding videos.

may have already said all of this... sorry if I have. It's a pain to scroll through the thread on my phone and my memory is not what it used to be.

Its ok buddy. You have actually helped a lot considering you are running a similar system to what I want to buy.

 

[gx_saurav]

By the way, this guy is using the same config I am aiming for. His experience has been good so far.

http://pcpartpicker.com/b/A7r

 

[gx_saurav]

Guys, there has been some change in plans.

I asked customer care of Asus, Gigabyte and MSI for warranty because they have service centres very easily available in India. They said they won't be able to give international warranty if I buy from Amazon USA. Sapphire said that I will need to check with local service centre for that. I will try going there over the weekend.

On the other hand, I found MSI Radeon HD 7850 with 1GB DDR5 and 900 MHz core/4800 Mhz RAM clock via a local vendor with 3 years replacement warranty for $205. Does anyone has experience with this card? Is the price of $ 205 justified for this card or should I wait 4 months for Black Friday without warranty.

If I order that Gigabyte HD 7850 from Amazon, it is costing me around $ 216 but without warranty. Also, the 2GB overclocked version is costing around $ 230 but again, no warranty available.

 

[BigChickenJim]

Still leaning towards the 7850? Have you investigated prices on the 7870? I still think that would be the better bang-for-buck purchase.

 

[gx_saurav]

@bigChickenJim I inquired the cost of Radeon HD 7870. They are costing me well over $300. Over my budget. Bit-tech was able to overclock this card to 1050 Mhz for the GPU on stock cooling so this has some overclocking potential even for me. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2012/11/05/msi-radeon-hd-7850-1gb-review/9

Also, Radeon HD 7870 is better but not better enough to justify paying $100 more. I can use that budget on CPU + motherboard cos even then I will be playing games at 1600x900 only.

Assuming I have finalized on Radeon HD 7850 only, what do you think of this graphic card in terms of temperature and cost of $ 205?